We get the point that you hate RR and everything that has possibly gone wrong with the program (including what he can't control) the past two years is his fault. Now will you please just stop spewing it out every five seconds? Focus on something besides your hatred of RR.
Doyle: RR Passes the Buck (no pun intended)
He posted an article, which is a legitimate subject for discussion. He did not make any commentary on the article. People are starting to foam at the mouth whenever they see a Tom Hagan post, regardless of the actual content of the post. It's really silly.
No, what's silly is someone spending the past month on this board starting a new topic anytime something happens or something is written that makes Rodriguez look bad or Harbaugh look good. People are foaming at the mouth because posts like these have been his sole contribution to the board for the past month, and it's getting old. We get it, he doesn't like Rodriguez, he thinks we should hire Harbaugh, and the board has let him know why his reasoning is poor in each of the threads he has posted, and yet he won't stop.
we have also had to read a myriad of "i love rr" posts or "omg did jim harbaugh call a pass play"??!!
...at the AnnArbor.com website, regarding the story on the arrest and questioning of the unnamed Michigan football player.
Without knowing the facts, without knowing who the player was or what the victim said, without having the slightest clue as to what (what on earth could it be?!?) Coach Rodriguez's role in the matter might have been, you wrote something to the effect that the program continues to melt down under Rich Rodriguez.
Your comment was taken down by the webmasters because they regarded it as a provacative personal attack. (I didn't really think it was such a personal attack -- I just thought that you were a complete idiot for posting such a stupid comment.)
Then, you went back to that Comments page, (Looking for a fight? Looking to see the results of your handiwork?) and apparently saw that your post had been taken down, so you posted another anti-Rodriguez provocation; the simple, true and thoroughly pointless thought that as a Freshman, the arrested player was, by deduction, "One of Rich Rodriguez's recruits."
You seem to want to post at MGoBlog with a kind of veneer of respectability and thoughtfulness to your anti-Rodriguez trolling. But your Ann Arbor.com posts have blown your cover.
You are not worth the wasted bandwidth to inquire, "What does any of this have to do with Rich Rodriguez?" I don't want you to answer that question. I don't want to see or hear anything from you.
things Section 1 but I completely agree with you about Tom. Last I checked these are young kids a lot of whom are from troubled areas of the country and while it is the head coaches job to police these students and to help them become the best person that they can be they cannot be their 24/7.
It's not like Lloyd never had any problems (see Larry Harrison) and that RR will never have another problem but this constant "everything is RRs fault let's burn his house down and run him out of town" bs that Tom Hagen keeps spewing is ridiculous.
I gotta say, I really didn't like the comment about the previous Februaries having "hurt us." The more I think about it, the more I wish it hadn't been said. Like it or not, that's a shot at Lloyd Carr that he probably doesn't deserve. This wasn't the time nor the place to make a comment like that.
So you would have rather him said "We have had great recruiting classes the last 4 years and it is soley the responsibility of the coaches that we can't win with such talent."?
What he said was the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts but that doesn't diminish it.
He could have easily just repeated his past comments about needing to add talent to the team, the youth of the team, and the lack of scholarship players, as he's done before. That acknowledges the truth, without moving to much more specific blame on the previous regime. I support RR and want him back next year. But he should not have put the blame on Carr, which, without saying his name, he did in that press conference.
Seriously? He didn't come out and say it was Lloyds fault, he said it was a few tough Februaries. This is FACT and if the "tough Februaries" were Lloyd's fault, than they were his fault, end of story. The fact that everyone jumped to that conclusion when he said it speaks to the fact that it WAS his fault.
Lloyd Carr is big boy, a former football coach and I'm sure he doesn't need to be treated with the kid gloves many people here think he should. His last few recruiting classes sucked, that is fact and I wouldn't take the blame for it if I were RR either.
Rodriguez inherited far less than what he expected, and I believe less than even Carr knew when he left or Rodriguez knew when he came. It seemed RR was arrogant in his public approach to taking the reigns at Michigan until he began to see the hand he was dealt, and then he began to step back immediately, not after a couple of games, but immediately. See "rally" at basketball game where RR tells the thousands hanging on his words that "We Will Try Hard."
More was expected from Rodriguez than it was possible for him to deliver from the very beginning. This press conference is what is remaining of that confident/defiant/arrogant coached referenced in the article. Literally completely out of any coach speak. He did not have much to begin with, and he has not managed what he had well. I assume he was including HIS first two Februaries in his evaluation, he IS NOT dodging responsibility, he is saying that there is plenty to go around.
The way I feel after the OSU game, however, is that Rodriguez gets it. I think Saturday was more than a football "loss" in the standings sense of the word. This was the first game it looked to me that Rich Rod's Michigan team had lost. The team that he has built and he is investing himself in. I don't know if I think that Rodriguez is now a Michigan man, or Michigan is now a Rich Rod team, but I felt like the team on the field mirrored the writer's descritpion of Rodriguez. Testy, Defiant until the end.
I don't think this team and this coach can win together until they have lost together. They have lost plenty in the last two years, but this seemed to be the first time the team and the coach had lost together. Rodriguez's press conference was not a "shot" at anybody. It was the truth. And this game was the beginning of the Rich Rod era. Go Blue. Go Coach Rod. Go Michigan.
Two of RR's recruiting classes are included in that total. He's blaming himself as much as he is blaming Carr. And honestly, both probably share equal blame.
A little more TomVH and a little less tomhagen.
One brings me a delicious sample platter of the many meals I'll be having tomorrow; the other spews unrequested garbage to nobody in particular. Thanks, I'm all set on the latter.
At the same time, I don't lend credence to articles penned by people who claim that Rodriguez a) ran off a bunch of players (those sympathetic to Justin Boren) and b) take the Freep allegations as fact without even considering that the allegations are extremely shaky and that nobody reputable who is actually involved with football takes them seriously.
Also, I don't take you seriously, because I have yet to see you make an argument against Rodriguez more substantial than, "he's losing". You instead rely on general crap that other people write. If you're going to take a view on the matter, at least make a point that you can defend in a legitimate argument. If you would like to actually debate the topic in depth, I'm sure that you'll find plenty of people (including myself) who are willing to oblige.
Oh, and the kool-aid analogy is getting tiresome. As in very tiresome. And for what it's worth, if we're really drinking the kool-aid, it doesn't really matter how it tastes does it.
How did you get so many points?
Do people give +1 when they see vomit?
this is the wrong tom posting. gtfo. we want mr vanharen back.
Februaries have hurt the program. Thats just fact.
Neither you nor this Doyle, er, Doyel guy know what Rodriguez is SAYING. All you know is what he said. You don't know that what he meant was anything different than what he said.
You spew forth your hatred on assumptions and interpretations. Where's the fact? There's no fact in that article.
Other than what Rodriguez said. The recruiting had fallen off. There is a lot of negative media attention. The program had begun to slide long before Rodriguez got here. These are statements of fact.
EDIT: Maybe the juniors who approached him weren't ready to go pro. Maybe he wasn't saying the players sucked. OBVIOUSLY. And, even if the recruiting hadn't fallen off, the attrition certainly does hurt, so even that's not necessarily a swipe at Lloyd.
While none of us enjoys the losing we've seen the last couple of years, opining like this isn't useful. Rodriguez wasn't considered a "hick", or an idiot, or a swindler, or anything like that until he left WVU for Michigan. At which point he suddenly became the most loathesome man on the planet.
As others have said, back up your hate with something tangible. But remember, he was brought in to rebuild this program from the ground up. Often to do that, you first need to tear it down.
"Maybe the juniors who approached him weren't ready to go pro."
That's a pretty safe bet since none of our Juniors are ready to go pro.
I have only seen him projected in the mid to late rounds (likely late because of all the other underclssment that will likely bolt with the CBA up in the air).
And actually, I don't think he is good enough to warrant leaving early anyway, but that is purely my opinion based on my inexperienced analysis of his game play.
where you are looking but there is no way that DW is a 1st or 2nd round pick. the only player that is going go in the 1st or 2nd round is BG... stevie is going to be a late round/FA signee because hes not big enough to play LB in the NFL and if any team watches the tape of him playing safety they are going to be hard pressed to use a pick on him.
You're going to believe the noted Michigan and RR hating Doyel without seeing the press conference for yourself? I don't think I'd believe anything that comes up in the media these days re: Michigan without seeing the proof for myself.
Maybe I'm just being crazy, but it seems to me that there have been several questionable articles written about M and RR in the past couple years. Things such as "OMG!! RR Eats BABIES!!" written by a couple people who get paid to write stuff for a detroit yellow rag.
And I think perhaps a couple Februaries HAVE hurt them. People committing then deciding not to come on signing day? That hurts. Recruiting and signing players who don't develop? That hurts. Not getting players at areas of significant need? It's true.
Posting the same drivel that is your opinion day after day after day, we understand that YOU hate RichRod and want him gone.
To quote Christian Bale "Oh, good for you!"
Everybody gets it and nobody cares about your daily anti-RR propaganda.
You and Doyel can GFY.
When he failed to land JB Daniels in favor of Justin Feagin.
Well, his choices on that one were A Program Violation or A Coke Dealer. I, for one, am glad he chose the coke dealer.
Also, his name is BJ Daniels, so I'm not sure how informed your opinion is.
It's not like he doesn't have a safety that's above a freshman, or walk-ons playing, or young kids playing all over the place.
Get your pitch-forks TOM HAGEN IS HERE!!!! If you honestly think that firing him right now is a good idea you're an idiot. That will just kill the program.
Oh no he said "we don't have the talent in place" yeah he really threw carr under the bus...
but it's h-a-g-a-n.
As an actual Hagen, I felt the need to point that out.
that he and Lloyd had the discussion about the past 3 or 4 Februaries, and that they're on the same page? Is it possible that Lloyd has the same perspective, and that was one of the reasons he left when he did - he just didn't have it in him to recruit the way he needed to anymore?
I agree with the general thoughts of most here who are stating their disagreement with what Tom has said. For the past couple of months he has been quite negative (to put it mildly) about RR and his thoughts of the future under him.
Having said that, I am not sure why some here are telling him to stop posting or get the hell out of here. This is a board for UM fans to debate their thoughts about the team. Everyone has the opportunity to dispute what he is saying in this public forum for everyone to see (and people are obviously doing that).
I think if it was an article in the paper that, once out there could be thought of as fact (though after all the crap we have seen in the Freep, I can't imagine anyone considering articles are fact) that would be different, but here we can all type our various opinions and tell him why his don't match up with ours.
I just have a hard time thinking that a person sharing their opinion is a bad thing, even if it is nowhere near aligning with my own......just sayin'
But Craig Roh's dad said that we aren't allowed to say anything negative EVER.
(Drenched with sarcasm and that special sauce that Quickie Burger puts on)
Hear hear. I certainly don't agree with most of what Tomhagen posts, but the herd mentality and attempts to shut down dissent are far more disconcerting than a couple of posters who don't like Rich Rod. This post, for example, was nothing more than link, with quotes, from a well known columnist. It is a fair subject of discussion. It certainly didn't justify the negbanging and vitriol directed at the OP by the commentariat.
Fuzzy, but it's not debate. Tom comes to this site and posts THE SAME SHIT every single day. That's trolling. He doesn't debate - he presents his opinions as "facts" and then insults everyone ("sunshine blowers", "kool-aid drinkers", whatever) who disagrees. If someone responds with a substantive counter-point, he ignores it, and calls them a kool-aid drinker. I don't have a huge problem with his point of view, but do with his method.
You know something is wrong when I agree with both chitown and Section 1.
It's cool to have a different opinion. It's cool to say it. It's uncool to say it every fcuking day with no analysis.
That bit where TomHagen blamed RR on ann arbor dot com was unquestionably the weakest post ever (most malicious and with the least integrity) and for that, the ban could be reasonably considered.
As a community is that tolerable?
I'm all for debate and exchange of ideas/opinions but it's not much of a debate when someone reiterates the same points over and over and doesn't engage with the counterpoints people bring up. Not to mention that anytime someone does bring up a counterpoint, the response is an ad-hominen: "Kool-Aid Drinker," "Herd Mentality..."
Speaking from experience, to even question some of Rich Rod's recruiting / coaching decisions, and even throwing in some hedging language as a sop, invites a number of neg votes (albeit not a full-throttled neg-bombing). So it's hardly a welcoming forum for debate.
Having seen the evolution of Tomhagen's posts over time, I think that it's his frustration with the antagonism towards dissenting options, rather than his frustration with Rich Rod, that drove him further and further over the brink. When legitimate attempts are debate are spurned, sometimes the easiest way to have your voice heard is to scream like a maniac.
with sound and logical arguments and then they neg him for being an idiot and what does he do? He doesn't respond. He hides and waits until the next evenly slightly negative thing so that he can troll again.
If you are a Michigan fan you should want Michigan to succeed which means that you should put your biases aside and wish and hope that he will succeed not look for every moment to bash the man and the program.
That is the problem.
Many people here simply get negged by a bunch of people for making any comment that isn't favorable of Rodriguez.
Also, what are you talking about when you say "put aside your biases"? If you're insinuating there is a faction of people that post here that are hoping for Rodriguez to fail? And please do not insinuate that the people here (barring the odd cases of non-Michigan fans) are hoping that Rodriguez will fail. I think that Rodriguez has made numerous mistakes (not anything fire-worthy, but certainly concerning ones) but I still root for Michigan to go out and win every game.
There may be (as in there probably is) a (small) faction in the athletic department that doesn't like Rodriguez. But that doesn't mean that we should be so paranoid as to claim that honest-to-God Michigan fans dislike Rodriguez so much that they hope Michigan will fail so that he'll get fired.
Not necessarily the poster I responded to. Clearly Tom Hagen would rather see RR fail and Michigan falter than to see Michigan do well and RR succeed.
Tom Hagen is not a Michigan fan he can lose my number we aren't friends anymore he's not a "Michigan Man".
Fuzzy D: I appreciate what you're saying, but ultimately, this is Brian's website. It's his editorial voice that brings all of us here, and shapes the comments on this board. This is not some wide-open forum for anyone to voice their opinion; anyone who wants that can start their own blog. When someone like Tomhagen brings so much negativity, and unsupported and poorly reasoned vitriol to this forum, he's going to come in for some well-deserved criticism by those of us who see him as someone who is hurting the website we enjoy so much. It's not that we crush any dissenting opinion; it's more that we don't see why he continues to frequent this site when he so clearly is in complete opposition to the tone Brian puts forward.
tone has changed considerably and he has acknowledged that rich has made mistakes and is calling for a 7-5 next year for rr to keep his job. thats a far cry from the "thank god we have RR as coach" posts that are ubiquitous on this blog.
side says the same thing...if something is brought up against richrod you guys always retort with "dont break your ankles jumping from the bandwagon."
just because im not a fan of the product rich has on the field thus far does not mean i havent supported this team every day since he was hired. does that make me a bandwagon fan
RR did not say anything but the truth. Recruiting and attrition have hurt this team. I wish that the alumni (the powers to be) would just admit that the program RR was left, was in bad shape. I wish they would also admit that they do not question RR ability to get the job done, but they do question his character. Why else would all of the stories be leaked to the Free Press !
I like that the quotes are arranged artfully and interspersed with just enough commentary and analysis couched as reporting to make it seem like Rodriguez is a towering dick. Cripes, I wish people would stop falling for this stuff. I mean, "all but pulled out a picture of Lloyd Carr"? Really? Seriously?
Yes, it's too bad that our last few Februaries haven't panned out the way we'd like them to. They were full of top rated players, sadly, none of those kids who were top rated at LB and S have panned out, stayed with the program, or gotten into school in the first place. It sucks that we had to fill 30-35 spots on the roster the moment RichRod was announced, given that we're only allowed to sign 25. Discipline problems that surfaced late in Lloyd's tenure have continued, and that sucks too. These are structural problems, and you can either acknowledge them or go live in a fantasyland. I prefer to live in the real world.
Them's the breaks. Get over it. Les Miles isn't coming here. Harbaugh isn't coming here. If we fire RR now, we lose another recruiting class or two, and then whee, we're stuck in this &*#$ for another 2-4 years before we even start to get better again. I wish Rodriguez was the miracle-worker that we all wanted him to be, but it turns out he's not. He's still the best answer we have: continuity, continuity, continuity.
You have gone from being the epitome of "All in for Michigan" to what many here are now calling "The Tom Hagan Meltdown." You used to be an entertaining, patient, and loyal poster who knew that the rebuilding would take time. Somehow, though, you have gone over to the "dark side of the force."
I know it's been tough to watch these losses; I would venture to guess that everyone here feels your pain, because most of us love UM as much as you do. I know that this is a new experience for you, because you don't remember the sixties and what Bump Elliot did to the program.
The main difference was that when Bo took over the program, there were 115 scholarships to give out instead of 85. When attrition reared its head, there were plenty more fresh bodies to replace those who left. In addition, freshmen didn't play, reducing any age difference, and an experienced QB came back. So, Bo was able to get results the first year because he had a cupboard that was fully stocked, and all that was really needed was an attitude adjustment.
We all know what RR had to face when he got to UM. You of all people should understand that RR is not making excuses, but simply giving honest answers to the questions that reporters constantly ask him. Going back to Bo: do you think he would have allowed reporters to hammer him like they do RR? Of course not. He would have yelled at them and refused to answer questions. And many of the reporters would have suddenly seen their press credentials disappear.
You may percieve honesty as "throwing players under the bus" or "throwing Carr under the bus," but all it really is is a statement of fact. You can blame RR for attrition, but the players who left either wanted NFL money or realized it wasn't going to be a country club like it was under Carr and left.
No matter how hard you try, though, you can't blame RR for a bare cupboard, especially on defense and at QB. UM started an injured freshman at QB the last eight games of the season. Look at a tape of the ND game and then look at any game after the injury. Notice that Forcier's velocity has decreased a little. He could have gotten away with that in HS, but it made his job a lot tougher at UM.
As for Momma's Boy Mallett, he was gone no matter who was coaching. If you want to remember anything from 2007, Carr was barely able to keep Mallett from quitting on the team and going home in the middle of the season.
Anyway, the Tom Hagan who made clear, concise posts was great. His appearance here gained points faster than anyone I have seen who didn't post multiple posts in every thread. The Tom Hagan who was "All in for Michigan" was even one of the "trusted posters" who was unmoderated in Mlive chats. That privilege was only given to the most level-headed of posters.
Now, though, you sound like Lenny Bruce after he got bitter. Except Bruce was still sorta funny. You are not. You are now beating a dead horse. You are now flogging your log. But you aren't making much sense, nor, from all appearances, are you resonating with very many of your fellow fans here at mgoblog.
Please tell the present Tom Hagan to take a flying "leap" through a rolling doughnut. And while you're at it, tell him to untie the old Tom Hagan and let him come back to mgoblog, because he was a really fun, entertaining, concise, thoughtful poster.
Many people here forget the old Tom Hagan and just see you as a toxic presence in the now. I haven't forgotten. I just hope you haven't, either.
I want to find all these morons email addresses. If and when RR starts to win games, just spam the fuck out of them with a giant I told you so go fuck yourself email.
Can we arrange this somehow.
He doesn't start to win games? Quietly delete the email list? Just saying...
If he doesn't win games, then obvs. we must build him a shrine and sacrifice more oxen. You *did* sacrifice at least a goat this year, right?
Of course he won't remain the head coach for longer than 4-5 years if we're epic failing every year. The point isn't that RR can do no wrong and we all must believe, its that there isn't anything better to wish for other than continued improvement. There's no reason to believe that it won't happen: let's get to 85 scholarship athletes and string together a few consecutive years running the same offensive and defensive systems before we throw *everything* away.
There is no better alternative than this coaching staff right now. They have a track record of success at other places. Let's give them some god damn patience, people.
Frankly, our budget is down and we don't have as many around as we used to.
Really? This is the man you are looking to for support? And I like how much you romanticize Carr's final years to the point that it blinds you from the truth.
when first I saw Doyel's article, I remembered a fine phrase Barbara Tuchman used in The Guns of August to describe a British general's analysis of a defeat: "with that marvelous incapacity to admit error that was ultimately to make him a Field-Marshal, ...”
My mother used to say, "it takes a big man to apologize when he's wrong, and a bigger one to apologize when he's not."
Capt. Kirby York, as played by John Wayne in Rio Grande, though, said "[n]ever apologize, Mister. It shows weakness."
More people listened to John Wayne than to my mother.
I don't like this.
RR said in his initial press conference something like, "the past is the past, why worry about it."
RR has said repeatedly this year he doesn't look to the past except to learn from it. Now here is RR blaming LLoyd for M's troubles. True or not, as wolverine1987 said above, leave LLoyd out of it. RR comments are divisive and unneeded
I think RR did a great job at WV and I am hopeful that he will end up doing a great job here. Did RR put any of the responsibility for the horrendous October and November on himself and his staff? If he did I would feel better about his "The last three Februaries, or four Februaries, have hurt us," comment.
What is clear to me at this point is RR is not a football genius, he cannot make wine out of water. RR may be great at building a program, we are in the process of finding out if he is. Until RR gets his program in place, with players experienced with his program, we can expect fairly pedestrian results.
Stop asking the questions that lead to these answers then and start asking real questions. Would you rather him lie?
Leave Lloyd outta your debate.
I am starting a L.L.O.Y.D. Club, it is $19.95 to join and I might even put out a half ass newsletter! You in?
Did you indeed see the presser? DO you follow the team? Have the last couple Febs hurt the team? PLayers not signing who were supposedly going to? Players leaving the team in the winter?
Did these things happen? Did he say "That damn Lloyd Carr ruined this program!"?
Or are you taking second hand hearsay?
I've been a pretty strong RR supporter from the beginning, but I confess that I wish he would, at least once, squarely take the entire responsibility for the team's struggles the past two seasons on behalf of himself and the staff he's hired, without also referring to the shortcomings of the players he has on hand. It's silly for Hagan or anyone else to deny the roster/attrition issues he inherited as being significant, but some times in life the appropriate thing to do is to is to swallow your pride and take one for the team without blaming that team at the same time. Perhaps he has already done so, but in all of the instances I'm aware of where he speaks about the team's performance he doesn't seem to acknowledge the possibility that some of the position coaches he brought with him stink, to be direct. If there isn't at least one significant change to his staff in the off-season (not talking about Gerg, either), then I think that will bode very poorly for the immediate future.
Having said that, Doyel's column makes it perfectly clear what his attitude towards Rodriguez was even before the game. As with virtually every national "journalist" who has commented on Practicegate, Doyel is plainly entirely ignorant of the large body of evidence put together by Brian and others here that the charges brought by the Freep are held together with chewing gum, dog turds, and rotten string. He apparently is unaware of the fact that it was a compliance officer in the AD, not someone on RR's own staff, that failed to submit the practice logs. In all this, Doyel is absolutely no different from those hysterical idiots who were screaming that RR shredded documents and that "family values" was a legitimate explanation for Boren's departure.
There is plenty to criticize RR and his staff about what has transpired on the field. His record is hard to defend. The main difference between people is on the question of whether he deserves more time or not, and this generally turns on the question of whether the losses stem from talent/depth issues or coaching issues. The most extreme partisans on either side seem to regard it as a black-or-white situation, with the problems entirely attributable to one or the other factor entirely. The opinions of partisans — whether it's politics or religion or sports — are for the most part the least illuminating and worthwhile to read. They remind me of Churchill's famous quote:
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
What I would love to read here on MGoBlog from now on are the opinions of the coaches who post here (Magnus, Sharik, etc.) on RR's staff and their apparent coaching abilities. I think we're all well aware of the roster issues, and how the recruiting is going. In other words, less "RR sucks/RR is fantastic" and more information and informed analysis. That's what brings me here in the first place.
But I am one of the ones that you site as being a "fanatical RR supporter". I do not think that he's perfect, I do not think that his shit doesn't stink, but at this current juncture there is nothing to do but support. I think that it would be a terrible decision to get rid of him after this year and thus if you do not think that he should be fired then you have to support him. I think that he's a good coach and frankly knows how to coach football more than most of us here on the board so I think that he deserves our respect.
Amen to the thought of moderation and intelligent debate. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people here fall into the two fanatic camps. For everyone scouring the internet looking for articles to support their hate for Rodriguez, there's someone looking for those same articles to slam the authors and play enlightened fan.
I see four possible reasons for these last two seasons on the field, and I think to ignore or completely write off any of them, is short sighted and close minded. I don't necessarily think they're all equal, but they're all a part of it.
1. Amazing and inexplicable talent void in key positions (defense, qb).
2. Administration's decision to take such a complete 180 in coaching philosophy and culture.
3. Rodriguez's staff's questionable ability to make the best out of a bad situation (schematically and player development wise).
4. In game coaching that left something to be desired in a couple key spots.
I haven't seen the press conference. But if saying "the last three or four Februaries have hurt us" is the best he can come up with as a "slap at Lloyd", he is just inventing things. Of the last three or four Februaries, two were Rodriguez' signing days (the last was his entirely, and the one before was the always meagre class that comes in when one coach goes and another one steps in a month or so before signing day.) So at most one or two of those Februaries were Lloyd's and it's not even a slap at Lloyd himself to say they were down. They *were* down, mostly because Lloyd was going to leave soon and absolutely everybody knew it. Other coaches were negatively recruiting using that fact.
Criticise RRod for what he says if you like, but lay off twisting every damn thing he says, please. Things really are getting preposterous in that department.
The header says "no pun intended." What is the pun, intentional or otherwise? I don't see it.
I think he was trying to make a Buckeye reference with the use of the word Buck.
You don't even agree with everything Gregg Doyel wrote. You're just linking to him because he wrote something against RR.
Go away. You are trolling, pure and simple. As I've said before, it's bad enough when a classless rival fan rubs in a loss. Why should it feel any different when it's by a supposed fan of the same team?
You do make for a good argument against abstinence. On the other hand, I'm not too wild about there even being a chance of you passing on genetic material to offspring. Tough call. I would say double-bag it and pull out just to be sure. This of course depends on you actually finding a mate, and thus far there is not much evidence suggesting that you have been very successful in doing so.
Do you know what a pun is TomHagan? Are you Mark Dantonio?
Most of us know that LC's final recruiting classes were far from stellar because of attrition and poor player performance on the field. There isn't a lot of depth and only a few good players. But by saying you didn't like those classes, even if perfectly legitimate, you're just raising the pressure to win by saying you'll bring in better players. Year 3 is when some of your players are in the system. The expectation for a program such as ours is at least 7 victories. I don't think that's unreasonable in the slightest. By year 5, a BCS run is required. RR insists on getting his players (he's loading up on WRs, some of whom will invariably be moved to the secondary) to try to improve speed for players who must navigate in open space. We'll see how that goes. But the bottom line is that if you think prior players (for the most part) were not good enough, then your players must be good enough for at least 7 victories in year 3 or else there's something wrong with the coaching. Otherwise, you're just being Weis-ian.
The last "3 or 4 Februarys" includes 1 or 1.5 classes of Rodriguez recruits. I don't see him placing the blame squarely on Carr's shoulders.
Depending on whether it is three or four, RR has taken either fifty percent liability (1.5/3) or thirty-seven and a half percent liability (1.5/4). Even in a trailer park, that cannot be interpreted as "Rodriguez all but pulled out a picture of Lloyd Carr."
The more I think of it, the more I think RR was actually being generous by counting his recuriting of the current class as part of the problem.
I would love to digress with you guys but I am too busy splitting hairs at the moment
coach rod answers the question truthfully and he gets shit. if he had danced around the issue he'd have gotten shit. this will continue until he starts winning and all is forgotten. i quote possibly the last intelligent statement al davis ever made: just win, baby.
Sadly, the Al Davis quote is more than true.
I think that the MSM thinks Rodriguez is slick and dishonest. I think he's the opposite. I think he's unusually open and blunt about things - to a fault, as Brian has described. He lacks any art to what he says...If he hadn't answered the media's questions they would have disliked him for that and, since he did offer (honest) explanations for Michigan's trouble's, they don't like him for that - or at least Gregg Doyle doesn't.
I like Coach Rod's bluntness. It boggles my mind that he can be considered a villain while a bitter, passive-agressive man like Dantonio can be considered classy.
One more note: The reason I don't mind the "Februaries" quote much is that, one can at least infer, he's not criticizing guys who are on the team so much as pointing out that the team is short 10+ scholarship players.
It's anyway the wind blows for Gregg Doyle. After the Michigan - Notre Dame game, he wrote that Michigan and Notre Dame were back and that all their haters would now have to shut up. Now Charlie Weis is about to be fired and Michigan's season doesn't go well so Doyle changes his opinion completely.
He says Rich Rod is bad but not because of play-calling or coaching ability, but because he whines to the media. A lot of coaches whine, it doesn't mean they can't coach. He tries to spin the fact that a lot of players transferred was because they wanted to get away from him, it had nothing to do with the fact that those players didn't fit the system and were meant for a pro-style offense.
If Rodriguez gets it together and Michigan starts winning again, Doyle will claim he liked him all along.
This is from his own bio at CBSSports.com; I'm not making it up:
"You dislike me. That's OK. That's why you're here, right? You were reading something I wrote and you simply had to know: Who is this knucklehead?
This knucklehead is 39. Yeah, I look younger. But I'm not. I've worked for the Tampa Tribune, Miami Herald and Charlotte Observer. Once worked for ESPN.com. They asked me, not the other way around. And I left ESPN.com in 2003 for CBSSports.com.
This knucklehead graduated from Florida. So I'm a Gator homer? Don't think so. Read this and tell me I'm a Florida homer.
Basically, take what you think you know about me -- your assumptions about the typical sports writer -- and start over. I really am that unbiased, I really am that athletic, and I really will beat you up. I started boxing at 36, had four amateur fights and won all four (three knockouts), and then retired because the pros I spar with kept breaking my nose. So I take it back: Maybe you can beat me up.
But only if you're a pro boxer.
And a good one.
But enough about you.
My likes: Chuck Palahniuk, when he's on. Esquire. Eminem. Tupac. Sparring. That stud Matt Taibbi. Dogs.
Dislikes: Chuck Palahniuk, when he's off. Sports Illustrated. Beastie Boys. Kanye. Surfing. That idiot George Will. People."
THAT'S IT. That is the Gregg Doyel bio.
It is nauseatingly clear; the media have learned that "Michigan controversies" = major website hit-counts. What we have learned, is that the more that national sports columnists and Free Press reporters have written about Michigan and Coach Rodriguez, the more erratic and exposed those reporters and columnists have become. A much better column from Gregg Doyel might have been about something he ought to have had some familiarity with; how it was that his fellow national columnist Michael Wilbon got it sooooo wrong in predicting (complete with our new favorite feature of journalism, the "anonymous source,") that Coach Rodriguez was going to be gone for next year.
You have to stretch, twist and turn to find anything out of line with what Coach Rodriguez said. But you only have to take Michael Wilbon at his own, unequivocal words to know that what he said was 1000% more inflammatory, and patently incorrect.
Doyel worked at the observer my first year there. He's really an idiot, and the entire (and I mean ENTIRE) staff there hated him.
As follows, from his own bio:
"You dislike me. That's OK. That's why you're here, right?"
I'm somewhat embarassed to be answering anything with respect to this guy at all.
To say nothing of his horrifically stupid Hate Mail column that runs every so often: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/collegebasketball-hate-...
I can't believe a major media outlet publishes that nonsense, not least of all because it's not innovative or subversive or witty.
Wow. Seems like a real choch