Did SC/UCLA place themselves at a competitive disadvantage?
SC and UCLA will have to travel East 4-5 times a year but schools from the East only once or not at all. How is this not a competitive disadvantage for these programs?
I love the idea of playing SC/UCLA often, but this arrangement seems unfair for them.
The powers that be at SC and UCLA don’t seem to care.
If this is part of a larger plan to absorb the top end of the PAC12 into the B1G, it may not be that much of a disadvantage. Plus, they'll only end up playing earlier than they are used to. What really sucks, as known from those west coast trips for the Red Wings, is playing night games on the west coast.
Big Ten after dark!
Big Ten "Up All Night!"
Big Ten "bitch all night"
Any game that goes beyond 7:30pm EST.
That grand slam breakfast aint gonna eat itself at 530am the next morning.
Help me, Rhonda!
It isn't over. They will have shorter flights soon.
That said, I can't wait to see them playing in the snow.
Replied to the wrong post...
They probably won't get too many of those games and it can snow in Oregon/Washington in November.
They'll make USC vs UCLA the last game of the year and they'll probably be generous with more home games late or games against Maryland/Rutgers where you get less snow in November.
It RARELY snows in Oregon or Washington. Unless you’re talking about up in the mountains. But U of Oregon is in the valley and Washington is in Seattle. No snow in November. It will snow maybe once or twice all year in both places and it’s like and inch or two in January/February.
What’s worse than snow? Damn night game in Oregon in steady rain and 40’ish degrees.
Ehh the rain isn’t that steady and it’s a light rain. It’s different than the Midwest rain. Trust me. Weather isn’t an issue here.
Don't tell them that! Tell them the weather is utterly miserable all the time and nobody should ever move here!
Also... VOLCANOES!!
Lol. The increasing wildfires do suck. And yes. The VOLCANOES!!!
Unlike tOSU!
Not mention that USC and UCLA will have to play in the cold when the majority of their players are from the west coast and have never a seen a cloud let alone snow
It's not like it's an SEC team we're talking about here who rarely travels out of warm weather. It snows in Colorado, Oregon, Utah, and Washington which equals about half the teams in the PAC 12.
Eugene averages 3 inches of snow a year. Seattle 5. These schools are not in the mountains. The winters are mild.
Salt Lake City, Boulder and Pullman would like to have a word... All of those places have unpredictable fall weather that can be very weird.
Boulder average high is 51 degrees in November.
Salt Lake City average high of 50 in November.
Pullman average high of 45 in November.
Compare to Detroit at 47 degrees in November.
I lived in Boulder and it can still be quite sunny late in the year (snow season is more Jan-Apr in the mountains). Michigan has to deal with the cold front potentially coming in from the arctic but those don't hit the Pac 12 as much. Sure UCLA/USC will get into the snow, but it still seems like it will be pretty rare.
I remember reading something like this a few years ago about that picture:
https://petapixel.com/2017/09/18/story-behind-viral-distracted-boyfriend-meme-photo/
In an NIL/SEC dominated environment, $$$$ = Competiveness.
I just posted this in the other thread:
I think it's pretty significant- flights from the Detroit metro area to Newark are probably like an hour and a half. A flight to Lincoln is, I would guess, 2 hours. Detroit to LA is roughly 4+ hours if I remember correctly.
So, it's not that big of a deal for the rest of the B1G to travel to LA at most 2x a year, possibly as little as once every two or three years. But, for USC/UCLA, they're crossing 2+ time zones several times a season. They would probably have to travel to one of Rutgers, Maryland or Penn State each season so that's at least one trip a year that is completely cross-country. Then they'd have to fly to the Michigan/Ohio teams and the Indiana/Chicago area teams (+ USC already goes to South Bend every other year). And there will likely be a road game or two against the Upper Midwest teams. The closest programs are Nebraska and Iowa and they're probably at least 3.5 hours away.
That is a lot of traveling if you're USC/UCLA. They better hope some other teams in their neighborhood join the conference with them. (Sorry, my hatred of flying is really coming through).
I'm more concerned about non-revenue sports. Football is one thing, but imagine all the travel that starts adding up for things like Swimming & Diving, Field Hockey, Soccer, etc.
And good bye to our chances of ever winning a B1G baseball title. A few other sports, as well
You're basing this on USC and UCLA being the only teams out west in the B10. I can see Cal, Stanford, Washington, Colorado and maybe Nebraska making up the B10 West division and slide Miami into the B10 Central Division while the East remains unchanged.
Three divisions, 21 schools.
The B10 just effed the SEC at their own game (or should I say they effed ESPN).
Everyone is going to adapt.
1) Possible West Coast teams will stay MidWest/East for 2 weeks at a time to maintain normalcy (like hit MSU and Michigan in back to back games). Remote learning is 10x easier than 2019 when it was still happening for athletes.
2) Maybe some West Coats teams flip to East Coast time to help with jetlag. Trust me, from living in California, it's much easier to get up at 5am there than in Michigan in the winter. More sun, warmer weather. Still can be crispy in the morning, but fall and early winter is still quite sunny.
3) With that money, more likely to have comfort on the planes.
4) Showcases and tournaments will pack more games into one geographical area.
5) Of course, expansion will occur. "WE" are in the short game with knee-jerk reactions. B1G probably has "basic" plans with many caveats through 2040.
6) May be upside on recruits. Many like warmer weather, and stick with the SEC. Might take a bit, but recruits from Florida, Georgia, Texas, and other states with good talent pools may be ok with the B1G since they can avoid the worst of the humidity and know they get a "work" vacation or two to California which is more exciting than SEC states. Breaks up the season.
Bigger effect on basketball and baseball where they will have to spend a few days out there for two games. Thursday USC, Saturday UCLA
It's all about the money baby! Even though life is fleeting and short. We pop up for a brief second to love and hate. To live and feel the full range of emotions. Then we're dead after a blink of an eye. If you died today would your life feels too short. Yes? Well it won't feel any different when you're 90 or whenever you're on deaths door. You don't give a shit about your great great grand parents and in a few generations no one will give a shit about you either. We're a blip on an infinite time scale. We come into the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. Yet, we gotta we go to war and fight and get neurotic about money and success and hating the other guy because he has some opinion that you don't like that he can't even do anything with anyway. It's all image and look at me and blah blah blah because we're humans and humans gonna human until the end of humans. We're relentless slaves to money and success bc if we hold up for one second we might lose out on the big big rat race to the fulfilling conclusion that will never come. So yeah they'll fly some kids over to the Midwest whether it's good for them or not because money is all that matters. Competition or literally any other consideration doesn't matter. Accept it and find peace in that acceptance. And most of all . . . Fuck John O'Neill.
operator: 9-1-1, may i help you?
XM: yes, there's a koala loaded with chlamydia, and i think he's having a stroke or had severe head trauma
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What's your beef with John O'Neill? Some people love him!
But those same people hate their football team playing in cold, snowy weather. F em!
Nope.
Actually, the way I am feeling? If I died today, I would say that it was a good loooong run with more plusses than minuses. That life was anything but too short, that I came into it screaming (reportedly) and left it with more than a bit of satisfaction that I made a nice difference and presented the planet with some great sons who will be a positive to the species. That I appreciated what my great grandparents had to endure to survive long enough and had to be brave enough for me to have the chance to exist and thrive.
I enjoyed my successes, learned from my humbling failures, and understood that money was a reasonable but incomplete metric of endeavor. Learned that deferred gratification can lead to greater satisfaction with a job well done and a life well lived. That competition can be a tremendous amount of fun and if you work hard and well at your chosen game, you can watch the Wolverines stomp the Buckeyes 42-27.
I would say that some people need to wallow in misery and nihilism while others can find joy in games played, the touch of a beautiful partner, the smell and sound of an infant with your DNA, the gentle rocking of a boat at a mooring, the early morning sound of a loon on a lake.
Life is what you choose to make it. It is a beautiful gift and one to be enjoyed every damn day you take a breath.
Go Blue!
Well said. I love you?!
Love you, too. Try to smile, even if it's just at how silly some humans are. Go do something nice for a total stranger, just to see the momentary look of wonder in their eyes. Life can be fun ...
I agree 100%
You recovered nicely with "Fuck John O'Neill".
More western schools are coming. I think the odds of USC/UCLA being the only "west of the great plains schools" in the conference 20 years from now are about 1,000,000:1.
It's just a matter of who.
Part of the advantage of doing this at literally the last minute (July 1st is New Year's Day as regards the NCAA's yearly calendar) was that:
- Nobody had time to react to it by making their own moves.
- The B1G now unquestionably has the upper-hand as regards the next conference move. Nothing else is happening until the B1G makes their next move.
- The next move can be made with some deliberation. Whether another Pac-12 school announces today or next June, they'd still be giving the Pac-12 the same "number of years notice."
- Cal & Stanford are different animals versus UCLA/USC. I can see a situation where Cal just drops athletics entirely. Or joins the B1G! They need more time than the LA schools to plan their move and now they have it.
-----
I've changed my mind a bit on who the next 4 schools will be. I do think we go to 20 --- but I now think it will be Stanford/Oregon/Washington/Notre Dame. ND instead of Cal. UC-Berkeley, despite being public, is such a different creature. They could become this century's University of Chicago in terms of an academic powerhouse dropping out of D-1 entirely.
Stanford/Oregon/Washington/Notre Dame is the correct answer and would provide the best overall scenario. I have no idea why some people have a hard-on for pursuing Cal. Sure, its a great academic school but their athletic program is dog shit when it comes to any sports of consequence.
Yes, I always thought prior to yesterday that UCLA and UC-Berkeley were tied at the hip athletically, but that's obviously not the case.
For those dumping on the Cal-Berkeley athletics department, check the Final Directors Cup Standings for this past season. Cal finished 27th, ahead of Washington, Oregon and 11 Big Ten schools. Michigan (3), Ohio State (4) and Wisconsin (4) were the only Big Ten schools to finish ahead of Cal.
Football and men's basketball may pay for all those other sports, but Cal does pretty well in all those other sports.
Yes. But they are declining; they finished in the Top 10 of the Director's Cup in 9 of the years from 2002-03 to 2010-11. They have no Top 10 finishes since then.
They aren't regularly selling out their home FB games against Stanford anymore. Indicative of waning fan support.
Stanford has gone to BCS/NYD6 Bowls recently. Cal has not. No Rose Bowls since the 1950s.
Geographically, they're not as close as Stanford to the REAL big $ in the SFBA
(I admit that's all relative, East Bay is still pretty damn wealthy versus most of America).
They have some structural disadvantages vs. Stanford, Oregon & Washington.
Football and basketball are the bagels. The other sports are the sesame seeds. The Big Ten is bagel shopping right now.
Football is the bagel. Basketball is, at best, the cream cheese.
I sometimes eat the cream cheese and skip the bagel.
Your post makes even more sense now.
Stanford is the primo sesame seeds (at worst)
"... their athletic program is dog shit when it comes to any sports of consequence."
So is Stanford recently, right? Football has faded and basketball is off the map. (They don't play hockey.)
Stanford is plenty good at sports "of no consequence" but Cal isn't bad, either. They cracked the Top 30 of the recent Director's Cup standings. EDIT: I see that chatster already pointed this out.
I understand Berkeley isn't your average college town, but I don't think Cal is super-odd as a school. Plenty of alums care about sports.
Stanford has six 10+ win seasons since 2010. Cal has three since 1950.
Here, let me give you some assistance with reading comprehension.
What I wrote: "So is Stanford recently, right? Football has faded ..."
What I did not write: "Stanford and Cal have the same number of 10-win seasons since 1950."
With me so far?
Here's Stanford's recent W-L numbers in football:
2021: 3-9
2020: 4-2
2019: 4-8
2018: 9-4
2017: 9-5
2016: 10-3
2015: 12-2
I'd say that's a generally downward trajectory. So, fading. Disagree?
I understand what you're saying. And yes, Stanford has faded over the last couple season. On the other hand, Cal has never had the opportunity to fade. They've always just been dog shit.