Did Bo's complaints about crowd noise in the 80s discourage noise at Michigan Stadium?
So, it's Iowa day on BTN, and earlier today they were showing the '85 Iowa-Michigan game at Kinnick. It was #1 vs #2, a huge game, and one of the first Michigan games I distinctly remember watching on tv. We suffered our only loss that year, but that isn't what really got my attention when I looked up from my lunch and saw it.
What I noticed was one of the less enthralling signature maneuvers of Bo teams in the 80s. Jim Harbaugh lining up under center... and then backing out and complaining to the refs because the crowd was too loud.
Michigan did this a lot. I don't like watching it. There was a rule that required that the crowd noise be modest enough for the offense to call signals, and Bo was a stickler for having that rule enforced. So he would make a stink about it in places like Kinnick, the Metrodome, and the Shoe. Refs would ask the crowd to be quieter (you can guess how well that worked) and on occasion a penalty could be called. I recall this happening in a number of games for several years.
Which brings a question to mind: Did this action by Bo influence the mentality of Michigan crowds? Fans all knew that it was a thing of Bo's, so we knew that he expected visiting teams to be able to call their signals. And so, during a time period when the effects of crowd noise on opposing offenses became an increasingly known factor in football games, Michigan fans were taught to sit down and be quiet.
I wonder if this really did have an effect on the mentality of fans in the 80s, 90s, and 00s that was hard to overcome. Because while Michigan Stadium's shape isn't the loudest, those few games where the fans got into things (OSU 97, MSU 04, UTL, etc) it was clearly an intimidating venue.
And yet. If, throughout the 80s, fans internalized the idea that noise was unfair to the visiting teams, that would help explain the quieter mentality that Michigan Stadium has been known for.
Any thoughts? Particularly from those who are a bit older than me, and were the "noisemakers" of the era?
August 20th, 2019 at 6:12 PM ^
August 20th, 2019 at 6:19 PM ^
"Sit down in front!" seemed to be the only real issue at the Big House.
August 20th, 2019 at 9:40 PM ^
Unfortunately that often was the only sound heard.
Crowds thankfully in recent years are louder. Probably has something to do with the fact that we have struggled a bit over the last few years as well as the addition of the suites that trap more noise in.
August 21st, 2019 at 5:57 AM ^
August 20th, 2019 at 6:31 PM ^
I for sure thought this was a WD post...
August 20th, 2019 at 6:33 PM ^
No.
The stadium was a wide open bowl, there were no towers tilted towards the field in order to reflect sound, and no piped in music/noise designed to render you just short of deaf.
Consequently ... quieter stadium. On the positive side, you could hear the pep band going around the stadium in the third quarter.
As an aside, Camp Randall was quieter as well, but that was because they were getting their asses kicked.
August 20th, 2019 at 6:57 PM ^
Consequently ... quieter stadium.
Bullshit.
The stadium back in the day was louder and without features to enhance noise. Quit peddling this faux narrative that the stadium used to be quieter. It's bullshit. The fans got quieter in the 90s and aughts versus the 70s and 80s.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:06 PM ^
The stadium was not quiet in Bo's day. There was never a narrative that "Michigan Stadium is quiet" back then.
When I think it changed is when they lowered the field and put in grass. Acoustically, sound rises and reverberates off of a ground-level hard flat surface like the old astroturf more than a lowered soft surface like the grass that was put in.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:19 PM ^
Quieter may have been a poor choice of words, but Michigan Stadium was never loud by comparison to other top end programs.
The Horseshoe was significantly louder and Spartan Stadium was louder.
And yes, there was a narrative that Michigan fans sat on their hands, both at Michigan Stadium, and especially at Chrysler.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:43 PM ^
Lee Iacocca was obviously far stricter about noise than was Bo. Either that or it was one of Chrysler's boarded-up auto factories you speak of.
August 20th, 2019 at 11:21 PM ^
*Crisler
I'm not Grammar Police, but that mistake is the one exception. It's not like the car!
August 20th, 2019 at 10:27 PM ^
I very much agree on the turf situation. When the stadium had AstroTurf, both the fans and the marching band sounded louder, both on game tape and TV broadcasts. When the field was lowered and natural grass was put in before the 1991 season, there was a difference. The stadium atmosphere was still rocking for many big games in the 90s but it was just didn't sound as big as during Bo's days.
August 21st, 2019 at 2:00 PM ^
People need to stop making excuses - the architecture, the field, etc. Michigan fans in general aren’t super-loud, whether it’s football, basketball, what have you. (Hockey is a semi-exception: the students took it over and made it loud.) I’ve been going to games since the early ‘90s and the non-student fans have always been pretty reactive rather than proactive. When they actually choose to make noise, it can get loud. They just don’t make that choice consistently enough.
August 21st, 2019 at 12:03 AM ^
Except in 1981
August 20th, 2019 at 6:47 PM ^
Man,I hope not. If fans are being respectful when the other team has the ball because of Bo, they need to stop going to games.
What gets me is when Michigan has the ball and goes for it on 4th and short and our fans stand and be loud. I sit right in front of the opposing teams fans and they always laugh because we are being loud so our team maybe can't hear.
August 20th, 2019 at 6:54 PM ^
This also drove me nuts. Yeah, I get it, it's a big play so stand up in anticipation -- but also don't say anything while the offense is lining up! People around me are going nuts yelling and I'm trying to do the arms down thing to shush them. Make the first down, then go bananas.
August 21st, 2019 at 9:58 AM ^
But if the fans are quiet, how are the players going to know that the play is REALLY important and the crowd wants them to get the first down? /s. Offenses have evolved enough that crowd noise at home usually won’t impact a play. Note “usually”, they practice with noise and have to be able to execute in that atmosphere.
August 20th, 2019 at 6:53 PM ^
It happened to Michigan too. Opposing teams would ask the ref to ask the stadium to keep it down.
And that was BEFORE the additions.
No, it didn't cause the fans these days to sit on their hands. Being spoiled and entitled did.
August 20th, 2019 at 6:59 PM ^
It was merely a game tactic. If you did it well, you could cost the other team a timeout.
Like taking a charge in basketball. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Give it a shot, then move on.
Don't read too much into it.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:00 PM ^
Seemed like different rules back then..I remember getting flagged if the opposition QB could not communicate verbally. Check that out now. Doesn't matter.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:05 PM ^
I got to UM in 1971, and for the entirety of the '70s and well into the '80s, the crowd noise was, with rare exceptions involving big plays or OSU or MSU games, what I would describe as somnolent. Bo wasn't responsible for that.
Part of it was that in most games we were beating the opponents badly enough that there wasn't much drama; another part was that our offenses were punishing but not terrifically exciting; another part was that we weren't routinely filling the stadium until 1976; and another part is that Michigan fans are passionate but not lunatic crazy, and were/are content to sit quietly and watch the game.
I can't recall a single time during that stretch when Bo had to ask the home crowd to quiet down.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:11 PM ^
We lost a timeout in the '83 game when the first Wave started and the crowd went nuts when it finally worked.
Bo lost his shit and ran out in the field and waved his arms for us to knock it off.
The next day he said in an interview that if the fans can't control themselves he would play the games in front of empty seats. Pure Bo.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:23 PM ^
Among Bo's most Bo like quotes ... regarding the wave, "What the hell was that?"
August 20th, 2019 at 9:28 PM ^
Next to the “key play” the wave is the stupidest thing ever at Michigan stadium and I’ve been going to games for close to 40 yrs. We caused much of the stereotype that comes our way.
August 21st, 2019 at 3:05 AM ^
Who the fuck doesn't like the wave?!
August 21st, 2019 at 6:46 AM ^
It was,"third down is key".
So the keys came out on third down.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:25 PM ^
When that happened I literally thought that Bo was going to come up in the stands and kick all of our hind ends.
August 21st, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
Hind ends?
Is that a pre-Viper position?
August 20th, 2019 at 8:19 PM ^
In the early fall of 1983, the Michigan Wolverines played the Huskies in Seattle and brought the wave back to Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor. A letter to the sports editor of The New York Times claimed,[14] "There are three reasons why the wave caught on at Michigan Wolverine games: It gave the fans something to do when the team was leading its opponent by 40 points, it was thrilling and exciting to see 105,000 people in the stands moving and cheering, and Bo Schembechler asked us not to do it." The fans responded to his request by doing more waves, including "Silent Waves" (standing and waving arms without cheering), "Shsh Waves" (replacing the cheering with a "shshing" sound), the "Fast Wave", the "Slow Wave", and two simultaneous waves traveling in opposite directions. The following spring, fans who had enjoyed the wave in Ann Arbor introduced it to the nearby Tiger Stadium in Detroit. The Tigers won baseball's World Series that year and appeared on many televised games throughout 1984, so people all over the US saw it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_%28audience%29
August 21st, 2019 at 12:51 AM ^
The wave started at michigan when doug ilgenfritz a cheerleader from seattle started it at michigan after seeing it at uw. It became a national thing after tigers fans did it often in the 84 series
August 21st, 2019 at 12:45 AM ^
Bo’s comment had to do with the fans booing steve smith, and his poor passing. Remember it like yesterday
August 20th, 2019 at 8:06 PM ^
Now it's just boring because Michigan is getting destroyed.
August 20th, 2019 at 8:16 PM ^
At the following game, when we did the wave we all said "shhhssssh" as in be quiet with a silent wave. Yes, the whole stadium said, shsssh (sp?) Bo objected to doing the wave when Michigan was on offense.
Bowls are generally quieter than tiered stadiums as the sound can go up and out without reverberation.
August 20th, 2019 at 9:01 PM ^
You forgot the haze of pot smoke over the student section. Students were a bit mellowed out then. I was one of them. However....we would get loud, but as noted, most games weren’t very close, so not much to shout about after halftime. The stadium was NOT quiet when AC caught the TD pass to beat Indiana in 1979.
August 20th, 2019 at 8:21 PM ^
This was a thing in the 80's in the NFL as well. QBs would go through the same routine. Announcers would always - always - say "AND NOW THE FANS ARE GONNA JUST GET LOUDER.... [turns up mic on roaring crowd]
August 20th, 2019 at 7:24 PM ^
This was pretty common back in the day.
August 21st, 2019 at 6:21 AM ^
Come on Harbaugh and Bo! All that drama because of some crowd noise and then you choose to hand it off for a two yard loss, tackled by a guy from Detriot no less. That's not how you get the crowd out of it.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:43 PM ^
No.
Did Bo have a thing about people standing?
That seems to have stood the test of time.
I'd be more apt to ask - did this obsession with quieting the crowd upset offensive momentum?
Be prepared to play in loud, hostile environments. End statement.
Cheers.
August 20th, 2019 at 7:49 PM ^
No! Shitty play did.
August 20th, 2019 at 8:01 PM ^
When the first wave went around the entire stadium in the fall of 1983 (hence, my MGoBlog name), the crowd erupted in an enormous self-satisfied roar. Needless to say, the roar was inconsistent with the proceedings on the field (and may have happened when the Michigan offense was trying to run a play). Bo threw down his headset, ran a few yards onto the field, turned to look at the crowd, and shook his fist in anger.
We laughed. It was Bo.
August 20th, 2019 at 8:18 PM ^
Truck drivers tend to make more noise than doctors and lawyers.
August 20th, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^
Michigan fans have too much class to be loud.
August 20th, 2019 at 10:38 PM ^
Noon games are quiet - night games are loud. 3:30 is in between.
August 20th, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^
The crowd noise rule lasted about a decade, maybe a tad longer. It seems insane to think of now but the opposing QB could ask for help from the ref. Basically, if the ref was in the mood, he could give the crowd a warning. If the crowd continued being loud or louder after that, the home team could lose a timeout.
I can only think of a handful of games where it was an issue or near issue.
1988 @ Iowa - Michael Taylor pleaded with the ref a few times for help but was ignored. The game ended in a 17-17 tie. We came back from a 17-3 deficit and drove to the Iowa 1 yard line. But with a first & goal, Tracy Williams fumbled the ball into the endzone and Iowa fell on it. No overtime back then so the game ended in a tie.
1989 Ohio State - With a second straight trip to the Rose Bowl on the line, the big house crowd was obviously pumped and the players at one point turn around and frantically plead with the crowd to quiet down so we won't get charged the penalty and Keith Jackson even explains it to the viewers and says, "the fans better quiet down." No penalty was given. Michigan won 28-18.
1990 @ Ohio State - The OSU fans were given a warning. Then they booed louder and were penalized, losing a timeout. It was stupid but fuck Ohio State anyway. Michigan won 16-13.
1993 @ Penn State - PSU's first year in the conference. When Michigan played at Beaver Stadium, the crowd was given a warning but no penalty. Derrick Alexander returned a punt to the house and we had the classic goal line stand. Michigan won 21-13.
Once we reached the mid 90s, it wasn't an issue anymore and home crowds were allowed to be as loud as they wanted.
August 20th, 2019 at 11:03 PM ^
Cool, another thread on crowd noise to perpetuate the stupid infighting about whether or not the stadium was ever loud before the towers (it was), "up in back" (you're both being assholes, cut it out), and all of that. Wouldn't be football season without it.
There were penalties on the home team in the 80s if the visiting QB couldn't hear their signals. See: the 1988 game at Kinnick when Michael Taylor tried to draw the penalty, the ref refused to call it, and Bo just about gave himself another heart attack coming 20 yards off the sideline to chew the zebra a new one. Bo got a 15-yarder tacked on to the delay of game.
In other words, can we just can it with the noise-related threads already? It's just clickbait to get people sniping at each other.
August 21st, 2019 at 6:09 AM ^
This thread is legitimate discussion of UM football history (and you have contributed to it also). The topic is fine - the trolls are bring negged as they chime in, but no real infighting is happening.