CC? - Some thoughts from a long time UM fan
Let me start out by stating that I love Michigan. I don't just love being a fan when things are going great, or even good. I love UM through thick and thin.
This, at least for the football team, seems to be one of those thin times. I also love RR as the HC. Not for the winning(hasn't really happened like it some of us wanted it to), but for the fact that he is a very good man put in a tough situation. He has done his best to transform UM football into a better, quality version of his WVU teams and bring an exciting brand of football to UM and the B10. Against not only a hostile press, but also against a portion of the fanbase itself, he has failed in three years to put UM back to national prominence. Should he get a fourth year? That is not for me, nor anyone else, to answer, although after the bowl game results, it seems nearly certain that he won't.
I want to thank RR for his three years he has put in here, from the comedy of errors that was 2008 to the excitement of Denard and 2010. I know it hasn't been easy dealing with idiot commentary from the media and the constant background noise of the anti-RR crowd. Thank you, RR, for your efforts.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:17 PM ^
there are some here that is really concerned. I did not slander LC, I just gave an opinion.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:17 AM ^
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 AM ^
a key win against MSU, OSU or the bowl game would have been nice as well.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:35 PM ^
and dressed his team in maize and blue polka-dot uniforms against Slippery Rock.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:08 PM ^
has a beautiful campus. The FB team is something to watch. They have a lot of fun down there.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:39 PM ^
Oregon not Toledo. Lloyd lost back to back games in 2007. Oregon was un-ranked too.
So everyone just relax for a few minutes. I know everyone is upset with the CC as I am but have a drink on me and relax. We will know within a few days. Everyone will be back to work tomorrow and life will get back to normal for a few days.
Then DB makes his announcement.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 PM ^
You don't get to slur a man who has meant more to Michigan Football than you'll probably mean to ANYTHING, and then just say "chill". And it doesn't help when you compound you're stupidity by brushing off Oregon because they were unranked in week TWO. Oregon was the best team in the country that year, before their going-to-win-the-Heisman-before-he-got-hurt-QB was out for the season. If you're going to make outrageous claims, have It at least be kinda true (well, I guess you did that...we did lose to App State. Congrats!)
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:00 PM ^
slur? All I said was that IMO Lloyd gets the blame. I should have been more specific in saying that in 2008 only. I had the pleasure of meeting Lloyd on several occasions and he is a wonderful human. I express 1 negative point regarding the 2008 season and I get jumped?
I never said that Lloyd gets the blame for 2009 and 2010, did I? Why does everyone jump to conclusions? I guess this is an open forum and people have the right to do that I guess.
As an Alum, I think we should not have a say in the CC, Only DB and MSC should do that. We all have opinions and are free to post them.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:39 PM ^
I think you'd just be kidded for making the "spelling error" (I mean, I misspell 'Oregon' 'T-O-L-E-D-O' all the time.), but people wouldn't be upset. They may even disagree with the blame for 2008, but reasonable cases have been made. But to say he abandoned the team or program isn't just wrong, it's also an insult. Words mean things, and some have negative connotations. No matter how you spell them.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:57 PM ^
words do mean things, and YES I did make a mistake. I was thinking Toledo but KNEW it was Oregon. I was at both games.
I have the right to my opinion. So in 2008 most of the players were Lloyd's recruits, not RR. There are typically 100 or more players on the team. So everyone that was not a Frosh in 2008 were Lloyd's. How can I get neg;d for saying the truth?
That was my point. Plain and simple. True facts that cannot be challenged.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:06 AM ^
Abandoned? Because that's not a fact. (I won't even get into the roster nonsense, because that's so done).
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:11 AM ^
in my opinion. I do not know what happened there. I do not claim to know "insider information". It is just a gut feeling that I have. Bo stayed around until they found him on the eve of the OSU game.
I dont typically go to SH on a daily basis so I dont know if Lloyd is there daily, but I doubt it.
Something happened that will probably never be released.
Thanks for the spirited debate though.
January 3rd, 2011 at 8:48 AM ^
Lloyd wasn't our coach in 2008, RR was.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:57 PM ^
Lloyd didn't abandon the team. He was ready to retire from coaching, so he did. It's not like he went looking for another coaching position.
What exactly are you blaming Lloyd Carr for? It's been three years!
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 PM ^
It is the most intelligent response yet. I "blame" Lloyd for the 2008 season ONLY. RR was responsible for the team I agree. However, it was Lloyd's recruits who played in 2008. I can name them all if I have too but I think we are all intelligent.
RR gets the blame for 2009 and 2010 for sure.
Thanks again for the question.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:55 PM ^
I don't think Lloyd would have gone 3-9, Mallett or no Mallett. I mean that to be in defence of LC, not a slam against RR. The attrition was real, no doubt, and has been well documented. The cupboard was bare for many reasons, not entirely to be blamed on decline in recruiting under LC. Also, RR cleaned house of some very good position coaches, which I understand was somewhat to be expected. RR is mostly responsible for 2008 (IMHE). He was responsible for the team (as you say), scheme and coaching staff. I applaud RR for his efforts and wish him future success, here or elsewhere. Sure he got more grief than he deserved. No question. But, so did Lloyd.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:31 AM ^
RR got grief before he even got on campus.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:18 PM ^
If everyone with eligibility stays, this team should be better next year regardless of the coach.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 AM ^
JH or next coach wants those players.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:29 PM ^
what happened to ND in the Willingham Weiss. Ty had no talent, he made them decent his first year with a solid defense, but with nobody else around, he started FR and SO Quinn in years 2 and 3 and were too young to be any good. The fat 'genius' leveraged Ty's then upperclassmen into a million year contract.
Let's just we get someone who can keep it going rather than a self-absorbed, self-proclaimed genius.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:35 PM ^
If RR = Willingham
and Willingham >> John L
Then RR >> John L
Amirite? Not trying to be snarky but some fools have been trying to draw that parallel and it seems unfair to me.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:13 PM ^
Whoever comes will have a good young group to work with.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 PM ^
Laughable:
Carr gets blamed for Rodriguez's failures.
Rodriguez gets credit for Harbaugh's future successes.
I think Harbaugh will have plenty of rebuilding to do after these last three years, and he will deserve all the credit for success, and criticism for lack of success.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:37 PM ^
If the new guy doesn't tear it up, will anyone blame Rich and the substandard recruiting classes we've had the last couple of years? Or will it be how the new guy coached them getting the blame?
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
Good question.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:26 PM ^
My guess is the same two factions will exist as they do today. The maniacal "Michigan Men only" crowd will blame RR like they have been, and the RR turned JH supporters will likely look at the big picture and make a fair assessment.
The only difference is, come game day, I don't think the division between fans will be as noticeable.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:43 PM ^
I don't want "Jimmy Hairball" because the spread will win us 10 national championship portion. Though admittedly that is getting pretty small. And the "boy, I really wish Rich had done a better job, but we don't seem to be going anywhere, it might be time for a change" group. But way to paint one side as completely irrational, and the other as understanding.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:49 PM ^
Haha fair enough I guess it was a little one sided and I lumped the "I wish RR did a better job" group into the group that I think would support JH. I guess i just don't read the boards or pay attention to that first group enough. Biases ftw.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 AM ^
is certainlky true
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:46 PM ^
Molk, Schilling, Warren, Graham, Koger, Stonum, Minor, Brown, S. Brown, Hemingway, Matthews,Trent, VanBergen, Terrence Taylor, Mallett...these were guys who were on UM's roster when RR took over. All, but Mallett would go on to start for RR.
That is not leaving the cupboard bare. .
The worst myth out by RR apologists is that Carr left the cupboard bare. He did not. UM had enough talent defensively to be field a good defense if they were coached properly.
OIffensively, they were going to be young, but they had talent.Granted, it was not talent that fit the spread, but it was talent. To suggest that Carr left the program devoid of talent is just plain wrong.
That said, I won't suggest that RR "ruined" the program. He just was not the right fit for UM at the time of his hire. I don't think he deserves to be subjected to the verbal and written assaults that have been directed at him. He has been grossly mistreated.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:10 PM ^
Of the 15 players you mentioned, only 6 were on defense and defense has been the major problem.
Many analysts who have much more access to the program have also mentioned the lack of quality depth left on the team, specifically defense, during the transition to Coach Rodriguez.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:28 AM ^
Dear god no. Please don't bring this argument back out.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 AM ^
have sworn the I saw that horse getting beat a few days ago,
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:10 PM ^
without question and hesistation is probably full of win (ironically)
Agreed - he was at the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong way.
Black Swan event
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:36 AM ^
probably correct here.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:11 PM ^
deserves our repects as fans. We may not like his defense but you have to love the offense and Denard's play this year. I believe that these two need each other. They would be nothing without the other. So if RR goes, I would not be surprised to see DR go. IF JH is the coach, would DR have the same role?
Anyway, thanks RR for the wonderful Illinois thriller as I was near the student section. Its memories like this that will never be replaced. Good luck RR and I hope to see you in the NC game in the future.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
Denard is an elite play maker on the ground. He will continue to be great the next two years here. Let's not pretend that Rich Rodriguez made Denard (In the sense that he would be useless elsewhere).
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:29 PM ^
RR is one of the few coaches, if not the only, that told Denard he'd give him a shot at QB.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:31 PM ^
RR is one of the few coaches, if not the only, that told Denard he'd give him a shot at QB.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:01 PM ^
Oh from that angle? Yeah then it's a correct thing to say. But I disagree completely that he will struggle without him (if that happens to be the case).
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 PM ^
In who's offense? Yeah now that RR and his staff did all the work in finding him, recognizing his talent, and developing him I'm sure Denard will have success in other spread systems. Yeah he won't struggle without RR now that he's been developed into the QB he is. Let's not pretend he'd be the QB he is if he wasn't here. Almost no one wanted him at QB. I have the utmost respect for Denard and all the hard work he put in but let's not pretend that RR&CO did not have a BIG hand in Denard being the QB he is today.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:36 PM ^
Denard will be in NY on a Saturday in December if he chooses to stay during a CC. He is a Michigan Man.
Double pos for the Adidas to Nike tagline. Come on DB. CC or not, bring back NIKE.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:11 PM ^
Comes from the heart. I think we can appreciate that. Unfortunately, I think the hole is too large for RR to dig himself out.
As for us fans, I posted this once and I think it's worth a reiteration:
There's only one man who can help us
"The Doc" = Harbaugh
"Alive" = Available
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:14 PM ^
Miles too ... we all know how that went.
Let's not proclaim anyone the Messiah unless they actually are locked, sealed and delivered to A2/
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:16 PM ^
But I love this clip.
Also, all this talk really makes you think about how gutsy the Tressel hire was back in 2001. I mean, if we hired a 1AA coach, just imagine what the fanbase would say.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^
"Let's not proclaim anyone the Messiah unless they actually are locked, sealed and delivered to A2/"
...and they actually do something messianic while in A2...
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:38 AM ^
unless it comes from DB or MSC, I prefer not to hear it,