Can we please talk about the Sharks - Knights Game 7?
April 24th, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
Not sure how to do an edit on mobile...but also, who saw it live? I was drifting off when the Pavelski injury happened which snapped me right back awake.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
I don't think that the match penalty call was correct. Should have been a two-minute penalty for cross-checking as I don't think that Eakin showed an intent to injure Pavelski. It was a freak play with a scary result, but I think they called the penalty based on the outcome and not on the action.
With that being said, I'm glad they called that penalty because it led to the most exciting hockey I've ever seen. 3-0 to 4-3 in less than 5 minutes, a last minute game-tying goal, wide-open Game 7 OT hockey...absolutely exhilarating.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:47 PM ^
I completely disagree. The dude got double-teamed and hit when he was off balance and then piledrived to the ice. It was brutal and they deserved every minute of the match penalty IMO. Penalty at 3.03 of video
April 24th, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
Always been a fan of hearing your takes on things. Curious to know if you saw the hit that ended the playoffs for Oshie this year. If so, what were your thoughts on that?
April 24th, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
I thought it was pretty dirty too. I get why Ovechkin went nuts.
Oh it's definitely dirty. It's a far more dangerous play to most anyone I know. Even a small push in the lower back when a player is facing the boards can lead to catastrophic injury. Oshie suffered a broken collarbone on that play and easily could have had an even more serious neck/spine injury on it. The reason I ask is that the refs only gave him a 2:00 penalty on the play and it's far more dangerous than the Pavelski one. If the Pavelski hit is 5:00 and a game, the Oshie hit is the same and additional games should be tacked on.
I don't think "double-teamed" is accurate. Eakin cross-checked Pavelski who becomes off balance, Stastny is trying to skate to the point man (watch his eyes, he's looking at the puck not at Pavelski) and runs into the off-balance Pavelski. Stastny doesn't even get a penalty on the play. No way that a simple cross check off of the face-off warranted the penalty that Eakin got.
I think you're right. I re-watched the clip (for about the 50th time) and this time focused on his eyes, not his stick. You're right - he's following the puck, not looking to clock the guy. I think what I initially saw (and probably what the officials focused on) was the position of his stick and hands when he made contact, not that he simply collided with a man already falling.
And yes, it based on that the major was excessive and the officials called the penalty more based on the injury than the hit itself.
I was wrong.
Wow, this never happens on the internet. I don't know how to proceed.
All that being said, there was a guy sprawled out on the ice bleeding out of his helmet and the referee had to decide without the benefit of replay whether there was intent to injure. It was a tough call for sure.
Thanks for admitting that!
This play alone is going to usher in video review of certain penalties, both called and not. Bank on it.
April 25th, 2019 at 12:30 PM ^
How are the two incidents different? The Oshie hit looks very similar to the Pavelski hit. Both are cross checks that resulted in the players being seriously injured. The announcer on the Oshie hit said that should be a 5 minute major and the Pavelski hit was just as brutal whether intended or not.
April 26th, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
Yes, both outcomes are brutal, but that doesn't mean that hits were the same. The two incidents are completely different. The hit on Oshie is a cross check to the back when his head is a few feet from the boards. That's an incredibly dangerous hockey play that results in a major penalty every time. The Pavelski hit is a pretty standard hockey play. Centers cross-check their counterpart off the face off all the time. Usually both players keep a low center of gravity and play moves on, but on this play Pavelski stands up straight and the crosscheck knocks him off balance. Everything that happens after that is incidental.
A 5 minute major can be assessed if the referee deems that there was intent to injure-the fact that there was an injury shouldn't effect the ruling. So, everything that happens after the cross-check is irrelevant to the penalty call (unless the ref thinks that the secondary hit from Stastny included intent to injure, which as I stated above, I don't think is the case).
To me it doesn't look like he's driving him to the ice as much as getting tangled up and going with the momentum. YMMV, but had it been called a 2-minute I don't think people would have been up-in-arms either.
I have to disagree with your disagreement. I hate to be disagreeable but I saw a guy crosschecked (two minute minor) who, as a result, was off balance and, while off balance fell into the path of a second player who inadvertently hit and knocked him down hard. The second player was not even looking at the play. To say "double-teamed" suggests the two Knights acted in concert. Clearly that was not the case. And it doesn't look like the blood was drawn by the crosscheck. The third period may have been an exciting as hell but Vegas got robbed.
The TJ Oshie hit should have been a five minute major. That was a crosscheck to the back that send the player face first into the boards. That there is a specific rule about. It may not been with "intent to injure" but it certainly showed a reckless disregard.
They really need to include that type of lower back push/crosscheck into the "intent to injure" category. Anyone who has ever played even beer league hockey knows that a brawl is breaking out once someone does that. It's subtle yet as dirty and dangerous as it gets.
I completely disagree with your characterization. Yes, it was a bad result but there is nothing there that warranted a 5 minute major. At best you could call high sticking that resulted in blood which would be two minor penalties. It's the playoffs and there have been plenty of "just as serious" infractions that have resulted in either a minor penalty or no penalty at all.
Second, he was not pile-driven to the ice at all. That would imply the Vegas player landed on him. It was a nasty fall and I am not ignoring that but the actual call was bogus IMO. Unfortunate for Vegas that it completely decided the game and the series. I would be going crazy were I a Vegas fan.
April 25th, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
I agree with this take. The Knights were crying about it but the fact remain that guy got clobbered by the actions of two players on their team. Taken individually maybe they're each minor penalties but combined they add up to a 5 minute major.
First and foremost. Hockey is not soccer, there are no "match" penalties. Eakins received a 5 minute major and a 10 minute game misconduct.
Second, the call is at the discretion of the referee and they can decide on a major if the opponent that was crosschecked was injured. However, no penalty was initially called, neither ref has his arm up, they only stop play because the scoring opportunity is gone and Vegas gains possession. The refs discussed while Pavelski was down on the ice and based on the severity of the injury made the call. Not the way to do it imo. Should have been a 2, 5 min major ok, but the misconduct was excessive. I think he actually gets cut by Statsny's skate, it's hard to tell, but it's really not Eakins' problem that Pavelski lost his balance. Watch nearly every faceoff and the loser of the faceoff engages his opponent almost every time.
In the end, stop bitching about the call and don't allow FOUR goals on a 5 min major.
The third and OT were the best hockey i've seen this year. Just awesome.
First, there is no way this should have been a 5 min major in a game 7.
Second, you are wrong about no match penalties:
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/2018-2019-NHL-rulebook.pdf
Rule 21 – Match Penalties 21.1 Match Penalty - A match penalty involves the suspension of a player for the balance of the game and the offender shall be ordered to the dressing room immediately. A match penalty shall be imposed on any player who deliberately attempts to injure or who deliberately injures an opponent in any manner. 21.2 Short-handed - A substitute player is permitted to replace the penalized player after five (5) minutes playing time has elapsed. The match penalty, plus any additional penalties, shall be served by a player (excluding a goalkeeper) to be designated by the Manager or Coach of the offending team through the playing Captain, such player to take his place in the penalty box immediately. For all match penalties, regardless of when imposed, or prescribed additional penalties, a total of ten minutes shall be charged in the records against the offending player. In addition to the match penalty, the player shall be automatically suspended from further competition until the Commissioner has ruled on the issue. See also Rule 28 – Supplementary Discipline. 21.3 Reports - The Referee is required to report all match penalties and the surrounding circumstances to the Commissioner of the League immediately following the game in which they occur. 21.4 Infractions – Refer to the Reference Tables – Table 8 – Summary of Match Penalties (page 137) for a list of the infractions that can result in a match penalty being assessed (see specific rule numbers for complete descriptions).
– Match Penalties) SUMMARY OF MATCH PENALTIES Description Rule (i) Attempt to injure (in any manner) (ii) Biting (iii) Boarding (iv) Butt-ending * (v) Charging (vi) Checking from behind (vii) Clipping (viii) Cross-checking (ix) Deliberate injury (in any manner) (x) Elbowing (xi) Goalkeeper who uses his blocking glove to the head or face of an opponent* (xii) Grabbing of the face mask (xiii) Hair pulling (xiv) Head-butting * (xv) High-sticking (xvi) Illegal Check to the Head (xvii) Kicking a player (or goalkeeper) (xviii) Kneeing (xix) Punching and injuring an unsuspecting opponent * (xx) Slashing (xxi) Slew-footing (xxii) Spearing * (xxiii) Throwing stick or any object (xxiv) Wearing tape on hands in altercation *
Let me know when a ref issues a match penalty to a player, I'd be interested in hearing that.
Nazem Kadri. Nikita Kucherov. That's just in round 1 of this year alone. I could go on. Joe Thornton should have gotten a match penalty, which is why he was suspended for Game 3 or 4 retroactively, I forget which one.
Ah. You don’t realize that they changed the name of the penalty, I see...
I thought there were two kinds of misconduct penalties. One is the one you described and the other one is the immediate ejection.
You are correct. The problem is that most often it is termed a "game misconduct" and not a match penalty, which is basically the same thing and leads to confusion for some.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
It was definitely not a 5:00 major and/or a match penalty. IF anything it's maybe a 2:00 penalty but even that is debatable. If Pavelski hops right back up, that is never called even a 2:00 penalty. It was a freak accident sequence where Eakin and Pavelski were battling and a semi-cross check/push to the chest led to Pavelski being off balance. When Stastny came through the same area to get to his point man, they collided and Pavelski ended up going down and sort of whip-lashed his head onto the ice. Only since he stayed down (and no way he should have gotten back up) was it deemed a penalty, let alone a major. Terrible call aside, the Sharks still had a major mountain to climb and did so. Props to them for seizing the moment.
Agree 100%. I don't even see a minor penalty there. Tough break. But I don't know if I've ever seen 4 goals on a 5:00 power play. I feel like 95 times out of 100 they would've killed that off without any more than one goal allowed. To allow 4 is incredible.
Yeah it's nuts. I watch a ton of hockey and I cannot think back to a time where I've ever seen more than 2 goals scored on a 5:00 penalty, let alone 4. It's one of those games that will be talked about for years to come, especially any time a team is down 3 goals in the third period.
Bertuzzi last year. Similar game situation--Red Wings were up three goals with a little over five minutes left, they gave up four during the penalty but also scored a shorthanded goal, wound up losing in OT.
But that wasn't a playoff game, let alone elimination. I'm pretty sure this is the only time a team's scored four goals in one power play in the playoffs.
Wow. I'm ashamed. I watch nearly every Wings game so I must have missed that one. I definitely would have remembered it if I had. And I have to imagine that you are correct about it being the only time in the playoffs, let alone the 3rd period of a game 7.
I just looked it up--this is the second time it's happened in the playoffs.
First Bertuzzi: https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/02/09/islanders-power-play-saves-day-in-truly-weird-win-vs-red-wings/
And then this, which I somehow completely missed at the time. SL@LA, 1998: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU019HjQ3KQ
Curious that every time it's happened the team in question was down three in the third when the penalty was called. I suppose you don't get four in five minutes unless you're desperate.
Also curious that all three penalties were somewhat dubious. You'll see what I mean in the LA video at 4:57 when they show a replay of Geoff Courtnall running over Storr. If they call that, there's no one-sided fight in retaliation and no five-minute power play.
I agree with you. Even if it was a bad call, bad calls happen all the time in hockey. You still had nearly 30 minutes if you're VGK to make things right and win the game.
Just like the Rams vs. Saints game, I can't get too worked up about a bad call when you had a chance in OT to win the game anyway.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
Which team does Poole play on?
Haha....
I really wanted it to say poole instead of sharks. Wouldn't mind beating the horse again.
Stevie Y POSBANG!!!
April 24th, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
Super tough situation for the refs. Initial contact looked like a 2-minute penalty. Additional shove probably wasn't meant to injure but when you hit a guy who is already off balance and send him into the ice head-first that is crazy dangerous.
I think 20 years ago this is nothing more than a 2-minute minor. But the NHL has been trying to crack down on hits that injure people, and I think that had a major effect on this call. You've got a guy on the ice lying in a pool of blood. That definitely affects things.
Because of the results in that power play, people will be talking about this for a long time.
20 years ago this was Not even a penalty. Rough yes, penalty, maybe 2 minutes, nothing more.
So, to summarize your point, it's not a penalty but maybe a penalty?
No, my point is that in the past it would never have been a 5-minute major, but with the NHL's recent emphasis on hits that injure, it's not entirely ridiculous. .
Boarding was once "not a penalty."
April 24th, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
brother attended, texted after regulation (i was asleep) and i looked at that crazy box score and found the major penalty hit this a.m. on line. i tend to agree it was a clear 2 minute call, but not so much a major. it was horrible to look at the awkward fall and i hope pavelsky is good-to-go for the next series.
and while we're at it, game 7 b/w original six foes toronto and boston was last night, too. boston won 5-1, but the game was close until the 3rd i think.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
When I was a kid, I was up late watching playoff hockey and while I dont remember the specifics one team was down big and only about 5 mins left so I turned it off. Woke up in the morning to find I was an idiot and missed the comeback. Guess who fell asleep after it was 3-0 last night......
April 24th, 2019 at 12:51 PM ^
No, we cannot.
Fair enough.
Shut er down!
Seems like you gotta be the first response in the thread for this joke to work well.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:59 PM ^
I think you do have to take the result of the penalty into account. If you commit the cross-check, you need to be prepared to deal with the consequences of it.
Either way, if you give up that many goals in one power play, you have no one to blame but yourself. It's hockey, suck it up and kill the penalty. It was a bad look by Marchessault saying what he did after the game.
I disagree, Pavelski made himself vulnerable by standing straight up after winning the faceoff. Eakin engaged like they all do, not his problem Pavelski wasn't ready for it, he literally hit him right in the chest. It wasn't a cheap shot from the back side or something.
Go ahead. Discuss.
Yes, please......that was one of the most thrilling endings I have ever witnessed. That game was over....like OOOOVVVVEEEERRRR.
I didn't think that cross-check was worthy of a major, let alone a penalty. It was a freak accident that happened after the initial hit. Sure hope Pavelski is alright though. That was a scary scene.
It was a horrible call. What happened to Pavelski is awful, but you can't penalize based off of the injury alone. The Eakin cross-check hit him in the chest (not the face or the neck like the officials on the ice believed) and Stastny makes it worse with a bump as Pavelski windmills into him...
It was a freak, unfortunate play... but I don't see how anyone can deem that malicious in any way. To swing a series with a call like that in a Game 7 is unfair, especially since the Golden Knights were the better team and they deserved to win.