B1G Performance in the BB Tournament
The poor performance of the rest of the conference IS concerning.
I've seen a number of posters claiming the perceived strength or weof the conference doesn't matter, or versions of "They don't root for Michigan, so why should we root for them?"
But the reputation of the has affected Michigan, and will affect them next season as well. Does anyone honestly think that losing three of their last five games in the conference, Michigan would have drawn a 1-seed if the B1G hadn't been perceived to be the strongest conference this year? It will matter next year, in terms of strength of schedule, seedings next year, possibly even future recruiting, media exposure, etc. The stronger the B1G is perceived to be, the better for Michigan.
We're already worrying about next year?
I'm sorry but the idea that this year's tournament loss by Purdue or whoever else will affect NEXT YEAR'S tournament for Michigan is fucking hilarious. Let alone all the other crap you mentioned.
It doesn't matter to Michigan. Just keep winning the games.
It's a weird year. Put nine teams into a format like this and some are going to lose. The conference is still the deepest and most competitive.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^
"Put nine teams into a format like this and some are going to lose. The conference is still the deepest and most competitive."
I think we're well past the point where that statement would make sense.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:20 AM ^
Or at least you are. The BIG is a good conference that had a not so great week. Why care if you're a Michigan fan? We're still in it.
Unless you're really into talk radio or sportscenter etc. it shouldn't matter
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
There is depth in this conference. Wisconsin, Maryland and Rutgers won their first-round games.
It's the top end of the conference that is underperforming (outside of us, hopefully).
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:33 AM ^
Wait. Where is the underperformance?
The Big Ten had 5 teams seeded in the top 32. They had 6 teams make the final 32. That's the exact opposite of underperformance.
So far in the tournament, the Big Ten has lost 3 games where they were the better seed (Illinois, Ohio State, Purdue). The Big Ten has won 3 games where they were the worse seed (Maryland, Rutgers, Wisconsin). That is not underperformance.
(EDIT--sorry, I hit the wrong "reply" button. I agree with Sysmark as well).
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:57 AM ^
So it is a deep, but not elite, conference
But using your same methodology, we had 5 seeded in the top 16, 4 seeded in the top 8 and 2 seeded in the top 2. Clearly we will underperform in all those rounds no matter what Michigan does.
Get your head out of your ass. The previous season NEVER determines seeding, at least for Power Conferences.
Is the B1G's performance in the tourney embarrassing? Yes of course!
Is this embarrassing performance going to negatively affect Michigan's recruiting, exposure, and seeding for NEXT YEAR? Fuck no...
Last I checked, Michigan has the #1 recruiting class for 2021, they have some good relationships for 2022, and Michigan's games are still some of the highest rated on television each year.
There's a reason they put this Michigan-LSU game at 7:10 tonight and not 12 or 2:40.
There's no shame in Wiscy losing to Baylor and Rutger losing to Houston (even though they pissed that game away), and to a lesser extent MSU losing a play-in game. On the other hand Illinois, OSU, and Purdue absolutely embarrassed themselves and the whole conference.
And of those 3 losses, Purdue is the only one that I look at and am disappointed. OSU can screw off, that loss was hilarious. And Illinois fans have been so annoying down the stretch of this season that I don't have any empathy for them.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
Idk, I understand your point, but Purdue was bland as fuck this year. I was blown away that they had a 4 in the BTT, and was joking with my buddy that they didn't even play this season because of how quietly they were mediocre. Painter is a good coach and all, but this year's Purdue team was not good at all. Them losing in the first round doesn't surprise me nearly as much as the OSU or Illinois losses do, though I recognize that you are not talking about most surprising losses. Purdue was just ugly and boring to watch, and probably would have lost their first game regardless of seed number.
Also, MSU shit the bed against UCLA, otherwise they could very well have walked to the Sweet Sixteen as well
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
Purdue was really young this year as well. I just kinda mean Purdue's loss is the only one that I feel bad about since I have no ill will toward Purdue or their fans. Unlike OSU and Illinois
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
The Purdue and Illinois losses were pretty embarrassing but Oral Roberts may this year's Cinderella team. If they get revenge on Arkansas it's going to be hard to overlook them.
The ACC was very often perceived as the strongest conference in past years. Don't remember it affecting them in the following season after a poor showing in the prior tournament. Going to have to see some historical precedent.
Also, who gives a shit? Just win.
Who cares? Aside from our Wolverines, he Big Ten has been trash in the tournament for a while. They get all this home cooking officiating in conference play and aren't used to how things are run in the tournament. We never get such treatment, and thus are more ready to play real basketball when it comes time.
OP, do you think anyone looked at last year to decide the seedings for this season?
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:26 AM ^
I think he actually does...
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:08 AM ^
IDKaGoodName for someone like that, do you?
The Big 12 (or should I say Kansas) has won the same number of championships over the past 30 years as the Big 10 and at no point has that been held against them in terms of seeding or perception. I believe the Pac-12 has the most teams remaining in the tournament, and that was widely regarded as the worst major conference in the country this year because, frankly, it was.
I highly doubt anyone really cares what happens in this tournament 9+ months from now, especially when we'll have ample evidence of an actual OoC schedule for most teams.
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:34 AM ^
Also some things to keep in mind:
The B1G has the highest Performance Against Seed Expectations (PASE) and Performance Against Kenpom Expectations (PAKE) amongst all conferences since 2000. And by a wide margin.
The B1G has the second most tournament wins and the second highest winning percentage amongst all conferences since 2000.
The B1G has the most final four appearances and second most championship game appearances amongst all conferences since 2000.
This honestly isn’t anything new with the Big Ten, so how it will impact the conference next year, I don’t really think it will. Not very much anyway.
But it would be pretty embarrassing if no Big Ten team made it out of the first week after sending nine teams altogether. Maryland is certainly not favored against Alabama, Michigan is playing without arguably its most complete offensive player for the rest of the year and is going up against a very high octane LSU offense, and Iowa has a history of flaming out early in the tournament. Oregon is no slouch and is playing on plenty of rest, so they could certainly beat Iowa.
#ShitPosting is what we're here for...great material.
The only thing it says is that Michigan’s path to a championship is notched up a couple degrees this year. Our chances were already low without Livers and the inherent nature of the tournament, so in the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal.
if we go 26-5 next season we will get a #1 seed, whether or not sparty lost the play-in game, or if ohio state and illinois underperformed.
Reading this post made me a dumber person...
The Big Ten was seen as the strongest conference because in our non conference schedules, we went out and pounded the top teams we played into goo (Gonzaga vs Iowa aside). Yes, our teams have played like ass this tournament but if Michigan and Iowa hold serve and Maryland can win, there will be 3 teams in the sweet 16 and that will be as many as any other conference. Plus, should Michigan or Iowa win it all the horrid play of the other teams will be forgotten.
But seriously, if seeing Michigan State and Ohio State lose on the first games the play and Illinois goes down in flames after their cryfest over standings makes the B1G look weak, then as long as Michigan wins and moves on, I'll take that all year every year.
But I will admit to Rutgers pissing me off. I don't cheer for the other teams because some idiotic SEC style conference loyalty. But I wanted to see them beat Houston and watching them have a 10 point lead at the under 4 and then blow it with missed alley oops and passes to nowhere and shit shot selection really had me yelling at the TV. Damnit Rutgers. Come on...
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
Poor clock management
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:11 AM ^
"... we went out and pounded the top teams we played into goo ..."
Are you thinking of the Big Ten - ACC challenge? That looks overrated in retrospect. What other "top teams" did the Big Ten play and defeat?
I actively root against every big ten team that's not Michigan in every sport, always have, always will. I don't give a shit about the conference.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
Which is probably a good thing, because the conference certainly doesn't give a shit about us
March 22nd, 2021 at 12:13 PM ^
Exactly
Jim Delaney says "word!"
Does anyone honestly think that losing three of their last five games in the conference, Michigan would have drawn a 1-seed if the B1G hadn't been perceived to be the strongest conference this year?
We went 20-4 in a major conference. It wasn't a close call - we were easily a 1 seed. This message board was the only place anywhere where I saw people question this.
I hate the rest of the conference. This tournament has been glorious. Now, if KU loses and M wins tonight, it'll be my favorite opening "weekend" of all time.
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
I've had more fun watching the games this weekend than I can recall in recent March history. It is truly the most wonderful time of the year.
March 23rd, 2021 at 12:08 AM ^
And......boom! Favorite opening "weekend" in the books! Go blue!!! Juwan Howard is amazing.
Yawn
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^
It's so interesting to me how much weight people put into a "lose one and you're out" tournament and how that affects perceptions of stuff.
The B1G only got 4 teams in the tourney in 2018, 2 in the Sweet Sixteen (Purdue) and Michigan made the final.
In 2013, when the league had ~5 legitimate contenders, they had 4 in the Sweet 16 (admittedly much better than this year) 2 in the Elite 8 and Michigan made the final.
The B1G's performance was pretty irrelevant to Michigan's both years. And both years, it took a miracle shot for Michigan to advance past or to the Sweet 16. Just buckle up and enjoy the ride.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:04 AM ^
Teams control their own destinies. Look at Gonzaga, who plays in an underwhelming conference and still has improved their team every year for a decade or more. They make the tourney every year, and they went from underdogs, to "overhyped" for losing earlier in the tourney than expected, to now appropriately ranked as one of the top teams.
Next year, UM has the top HS class coming in. Depending on who stays, mixed with that class, they will be ranked high.
Florida just lost Oral Roberts. Rutgers, a mid-level BIG, nearly beat Houston, a 2 seed. Oklahoma State and Texas have both lost in the Big 12.
There's a reason they call in March Madness. Upsets happen every year--Duke and Kentucky would otherwise have won 5 more champs each between the two of them over the last 15 years.
The only thing to do is root for UM and enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts, and stop worrying about next year.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:05 AM ^
Put me down as a person not putting too much stock in what happens in this year's tournament. Michigan's a #1 seed and literally didn't play for two weeks in the middle of the year. When does that happen? There have been various pauses and breaks and quarantines, limited practice opportunities, teams living in a bubble this year, etc.
So...I'm rooting for Michigan to win, and I was rooting for Illinois, MSU, and OSU to lose (not necessarily in that order).
Other than that, I really don't care. I just want to enjoy the games and the stories.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:18 AM ^
"So...I'm rooting for Michigan to win, and I was rooting for Illinois, MSU, and OSU to lose (not necessarily in that order)."
This right here. I initially read OP's post and thought, "Is this dude trying to guilt me into using my cosmic rooting power to make the B1G perform better in the tournament?" Yeah, that's not going to happen. Absolutely LOVED watching OSU go down to Mouth Bob and Illinois losing to Loyola is the one bright spot in my bracket. I don't do Conference rooting in the tournament, especially for teams that are coached by d-bags like Underwood and McCaffrey.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:11 AM ^
I don't think conference performance in a single-elimination tournament with random draws says anything about the strength of the conference, nor do I think anyone will remember or care. Can you remember how the B1G as a whole did in the 2019 tournament?
This tournament has had a huge number of upsets, even compared to the usual March Madness, and the B1G had four of the top eight seeds. That's the root of it, more than anything. Everyone is getting upset, and the B1G had a lot of favorites.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:16 AM ^
I hope the Buckeyes and Spartans lose every game they ever play, forever, and ever. I don't care how that looks on Michigan.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:19 AM ^
my bad, didnt see someone beat me to it. But still, does seeding really matter? we see a 15 seed in the S16
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
As far as how a conference affects you see Gonzaga. As for the rest you could argue that a traditional power conference like the ACC is doing even worse (this year) but people are just focussing on the B1G because of the hype during the season when in reality it is just parity in college basketball.
Unless you are a B1G fan when it comes to basketball (which I am) it shouldn't bother you at all how the B1G performs because it won't affect Michigan next year or in the future. Now in football it may be a little more important since there are only 4 teams that make the playoffs.