Arguing the Notion Dantonio is in the Wolverine Fanbase's Head

Submitted by jajaja23 on

[Ed-M: Knocked down to board from diaries. Reasoning in comments.]

Ripped from retirement to speak upon a sin. Worry not, my friends - my source to confidential chats will resume. I, Ace Williams JaJaJa23, will bring the truth soon. For now, I must speak out on a very important topic: Spartan Trolls.

Everywhere you turn, now, the argument is being made by Spartan fans: Dantonio is in Michigan's heads. This is the explanation for everything. MSU kid cuts off a Michigan fan driving, UM fan gives him the finger - Dantonio. MSU fan gets cut off from drinking and burns a couch and gets arrested - cop must be a Michigan fan and is taking Dantonio frustrations out on him. Presumably this Diary will be used to prove Dantonio is, in fact, in my head. The same way if you're called a racist and try to deny it, you're just in denial or scared of the truth. 

1) MSU fans: you have a polarizing coach who settles for grumbles and pontificated language. He carries a holier than thou approach where he will say one thing and then get pissy when it blows up in his face (moment of silence). No other coach that UM fans have been regularly exposed to has acted as if they were above the media roar and then dropped sensationalist quotes to see what happens. Dantonio is the equivalent of a pissed spouse who insists he/she's not going to argue, lets you yell, acts above the fray and then tells you she's always thought your mom was a bitch before getting in the car to go away for a weekend. Your coach comes off as a smug asshole, before he even beat Michigan. His victories cannot further something people already thought before Game One: he's a douche. He's a hell of a coach and has helped MSU perform at a level no coach they have had for 2-3 decades have at least. Yet he can't just be a coach. He has to be the band leader. If I were an MSU fan, I'd wonder at what point does Dantonio act like he's been there.

2) Dantonio has led MSU to 4 impressive matchups against UM, winning 3. Arrogance or not, a wide variety of the fanbase believes two, possibly all three, wins were marred by UM fielding a poor team. MSU fans cite this as delusional. Yet you cannot claim that the UM fanbase is delusional in their beliefs that Dantonio really didn't beat UM (Michigan beat themselves) yet also claim that Dantonio is in their heads - said delusion would PREVENT taking Dantonio seriously. The fact is the wins count and Dantonio has won, again, 3 of 4. Yet when did Michigan fans claim Lloyd was in MSU fans' heads when they called him Llllloyd, celebrating a record that's not even theirs. Was Lloyd in MSU fans' heads when App State won and E Lansing went crazy, despite later losing to this 'sad team'? Simply because your team has performed at a level and you have a dislike for the coach of said team does not mean he has overwhelmed your senses. Maybe he's just a jackoff. Saban must be in all of our heads.

3) Michigan fans comprehend games outside of their own program. This blog has showcased 'lucky' seasons from other schools and their performance. Yet labeling last year's season for MSU as one of luck, despite two trick-play wins, is not a consistent message following how other school's efforts have been labeled. Instead, it's Michigan fans taking out their jealousy that they wish they had Dantonio. Sorry but a lot of detractors of Hoke, and even some supporters, would say they possibly see the same ceiling for both coaches. Grinding out solid seasons is great but that makes you a grinder, not the blue chip other teams wish they had. Would we love the seasons? Probably/yes (especially the .333 Big Ten Title - lovin' our .5 MNC!). But would he be the coach Michigan fans would look at hoping to replace RR if he was the coach at Clemson instead of MSU? Probably not/no.

4) Whether obvious or not, there are a lot of similarities between RR and Dantonio in how they approach the media and expectations. Dantonio has deferred all responsibility for anything he has said or is said about him as an unknowing, clueless base. Only he understands. Only he can judge what should and shouldn't be done. Rodriguez refused criticism on his defense and programs, citing people did not know what they were doing. Rather than openly admitting flaws and showing a willingness to divert path to make things easier, opening the process so to speak, RR stuck to his guns and got fired for the performance of one coach. Similarly, Dantonio has been destroyed repeatedly for his chances offered while refusing to acknowledge the standards are only in place because he chose to pontificate at how things were done differently at MSU with chances. It doesn't matter if Hoke boots Stonum - he never said to expect a higher standard.

5) Our fanbase is amused by the words of college athletes who mouth off about rivalries or games. They are not amused by the words of professionals or adults who mouth off about rivalries or games. It was hilarious for Mike Hart to call MSU "Little Brother" because a cocky, rude 21 year old said it. It would not be hilarious, nor acceptable, for a coach to do so. Calls for a sense of maturity or decorum would emerge, not a campaign of chanting and mantras tattooed on Bro Biceps. Your coach runs his mouth while smirking that the talking will be done on the field. The fact remains Dantonio has talked more shit about Michigan in each individual year of his tenure than likely any coach for Michigan has in a decade. He represents your Spartan hypocrisy: it's hilarious and amazing for your running back to trot into the endzone with a finger to his lips on a score but it's unacceptable for Morris to tell your guard to gtfo his court. You can plant flags but will fight if anyone tries to do it to you. Dantonio's comments do not rattle in our brains like a cancer - they represent the juvenile hyprocrisy of too much of your fanbase that receives an eyeroll and a call for reason. 

UM fans made fun of every MSU coach they've had when they did something stupid. If Bobby Williams made the comment about Tressel, it'd have received the same reaction. Your coach slapped himself and it was ridiculed for months - it was mocked not because he had been losing games. Or that he was MSU's coach. It was mocked because he was an arrogant idiot (I perceive a trend). Dantonio's comments came out as sloppy and unnecessary, no matter its literary history and value. The number of Spartan fans who can suddenly quote Aristotle or support Dantonio's critical literary knowledge is astounding. Undoubtedly Dantonio could vouch for the value of SkyNet and their impending control as proof positive of moralistic consistency and 90% of the MSU fanbase would declare it a sound theory backed by years of Christian and Democratic dogma. Anything positive that implies, in some way, Tressel is in a way blameless is a joke. We theorize that perhaps your coach cares more about OSU than your own school. Naturally, Brandstatter, who questioned the comment in a gut (lulz hes fan guys /rcmb) reaction on Twitter is the new Satan. 

Well. I guess that's fair. Brandy's gotten to call a lot of UM/MSU Wolverine victories.

He must be in your head.

wile_e8

August 2nd, 2011 at 5:11 PM ^

Presumably this Diary will be used to prove Dantonio is, in fact, in my head. The same way if you're called a racist and try to deny it, you're just in denial or scared of the truth.

There's a difference between denying it when accused and writing an entirely unprompted essay about it.

michfan4borw

August 3rd, 2011 at 12:25 PM ^

This OP was unprompted, just like the sparty blogs have daily threads about Coach Hoke w/o being prompted or accused.  Hoke is in sparty's collective head(s) w/o having even  coached a single game.  Actually, Michigan has always been in sparty's head; we all know this and the sparty fanbase acknowledges this sometimes too.   Just look at the recent Kirk Cousin's "motivation"--Michigan fans having the audacity to introduce themselves to him as Michigan fans.

Don't be like sparty.  Just beat sparty. 

MGoDC

August 2nd, 2011 at 5:23 PM ^

Who the hell are you trying to convince with this? This is a Michigan blog. If you want to write an article to Sparty fans explaining why their coach is not in your head, I suggest posting this over at RCMB and include something about 'Nam when you do so.

MGoNukeE

August 2nd, 2011 at 5:33 PM ^

It's nice to see the thoughts of every Michigan fan in a single essay. Although MGoDC is right in that it's probably targeted at the wrong audience. If you were to post it on MLive, you can broadcast the message to more MSU trolls while exposing the locals to half-decent writing that they're not used to.

michfan4borw

August 3rd, 2011 at 9:29 AM ^

Terrell Pryor is a tragic hero.  It's defined as a literary character who makes an error of judgment or has a fatal flaw that combined with fate and external forces brings on a tragedy.

Since anyone can be a literary character and since a tragedy almost always involves forces external of the character, a "tragic hero"--as used by the leader of all sparties who follow him blindly--is anyone who makes a mistake or has a flaw that leads to a tragedy (i.e. his or her downfall). 

Other tragic heroes:

Casey Anthony (recently seen wearing OSU gear too)

Snooki

Charlie Sheen

Arnold Da (former) Governor

Lindsey Lohan

Anthony Weiner

Mel Gibson

Insert name (of anyone who makes a mistake and suffers consequences)

In sum:  Coach Marky Mark is a boneheaded moran.  He is not a literary scholar.  He coaches MSU.  The fans that defend him--despite the fact that Tressel cost MSU the Rose Bowl--are his sheep.  I would have to be delusional to make myself blind to the opportunity that Tressel directly prevented;  I would have to be a sparty.

 

Seth

August 3rd, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^

That's not how I learned to define tragic hero. There's a key element to this (Joseph) Campbellian term that missing from your definition: the reader must empathize with the "hero." Essentially the phrase uses 'hero' just as Campbell does: to mean 'protagonist.' 

Hamlet is the exempli gratia of a tragic hero. Boromir is a tragic hero. Oedipus is a tragic hero.

A key component of a Tragic Hero is irony: what motivates the character to do good also brings about his downfall.

However when Dantonio referred to Tressel as a "tragic hero," I believe many people too this literally, ie he is a "hero" and also "tragic" with no conceptualization of this having a more specific literary meaning. I don't know if Dantonio meant it as Hamlet or literal; I mean this with as much contempt as it comes across with: this man is no Lloyd Carr. Anyway the whole brouhaha made over this, I believe, is that most newspaper readers will see "tragic hero" in a quote and immediately take the "hero" part as ridiculous. More concerning, I think, is connection of empathy, meaning Dantonio sees himself as on Tressel's side.

Dantonio's response in this is very similar to that from lots of high school coaches and ADs in Ohio who knew Tressel, and most Ohio State fans. However that empathy doesn't necessarily come from them just knowing more about the guy. In other words, there's a very good reason that many people who know Tressel think of him as a hero (and his downfall a tragedy) other than Tressel actually being a hero: loyalty. On a scale with "I'd rather lead from consensus" on one side and "I'd rather lead from accordance" on the other, Tressel was absolutely a partisan. As someone on the opposite extreme (I generally disdain loyalty for loyalty's sake and this gets me into endless trouble) I have little respect for that. Part of my reasoning for that is because it's the easisest path toward unethical behavior: once you and all of those around you take your righteousness as a given, you cease to question your righteousness.

Dantonio is among the Tressel partisans, and this was demonstrated as strongly as possible by his characterization of Tressel as both "tragic" and "heroic." Personally I see the gaffe as just one more example of why loyalty is 

lhglrkwg

August 2nd, 2011 at 6:17 PM ^

All that's happening is this: 

  1. Michigan is very used to beating MSU
  2. MSU fans are very very annoying when they are winning
    therefore
  3. Michigan fans are annoyed

 

Waters Demos

August 2nd, 2011 at 6:32 PM ^

Those familiar with my posts know that I have been honest on this topic.

I have criticized Dantonio for his lack of disciplininary measures, the laughable nature of his reputation for discipline, and the harmful effect that this has on university life. 

I have questioned some of his personnel decisions when certain players appeared to be completely unprepared for university, and whose presence only demonstrated that the university was seen as secondary, and MSU sports primary (which, in my view, turns everything on its head).

But this "essay" is unsolicited (as one user points out above), and, therefore, undoes itself.  That the OP anticipated this does not negate it. 

Moreover, resorting to "he's a douche" is an immediate sign that there's nothing original or intelligent here (and it comes in only the third paragraph and first bullet point, out of 10 paragraphs and five bullet points, respectively, so the reader anticipates a lot of rant/labor through the rest of it).  There's no analysis, no inquiry.  Nothing has been established here - it's just a rant.  Kind of like the dreaded Valenti [yes, I regard him as a thoughtless windbag too]  - only in the other direction [though not quite as bad]. 

If I was in your position, at most I'd quietly regard Dantonio as a fool.  He'd never be worth voicing anything.  A fortiori, he wouldn't be worth this kind-of-essay-type thing.

jajaja23

August 2nd, 2011 at 7:21 PM ^

this was Mike Valenti's thesis point for four hours, you are dead on in your assertion it was a response.

For everybody else: your responses were exactly what this post required, positive and negative, nothing less nothing more. Those that have heard the same seem to feel the same. Those who hold themselves to a higher standard, as they should, said so. Those who said who or questioned what in the hell inspired it only further the point the UM fanbase is not an obsessed monster with one demon: Dantonio. 

Diary Rant Completed: I'll stick to Chats from here on out.

WestSider

August 2nd, 2011 at 6:38 PM ^

this, and I appreciate your assertions to a limited degree. It would read better without the crude language or name calling. I had to learn that lesson myself. I make a living in part by writing long reports that have to be professional. On the internet there is a little 'letting loose' with more 'natural' language. You write well enough, so please just interpret this as a suggestion. And I have never felt that Dantonio is in any Wolverine's head, sorry, that just does not resonate with me or anyone I know.

wolverinebutt

August 2nd, 2011 at 7:15 PM ^

Michigan will have the ship righted soon. Then it will be Dantonio who.

Dantonio has made the program better, but don't forget what Bama did to them in the bowl game.  They are over rated and Big Bro is coming back.    

Jasper

August 3rd, 2011 at 7:19 AM ^

I've posted something like this before. Take a close look at Dantonio's record against ranked teams and you just might fail to be favorably impressed.

* * * * *

2007

L: Wisconsin
L: OSU
L: Michigan
Bowl: L
0-3

2008

L: OSU
L: Penn State
L: Georgia
Bowl: L
0-3

2009

W: Michigan
L: Iowa
L: Penn State
Bowl:  L
1-2

2010

W: Wisconsin
W: Michigan (road)
L: Iowa
L: Alabama
Bowl: L
2-2

Overall:

3-10 against ranked teams (one road win, against Michigan)
0-4 in bowls

His "signature" win is the Wisconsin game last year in East Lansing.

Sparty On!

Tater

August 3rd, 2011 at 10:55 AM ^

Are you a Giants fan or a UK basketball fan?  I agree with your content, though, but I think you are generous at 8-4.  I think 7-5 is the ceiling for this year's Sparty.  

As for Dantonio, he is typical Sparty; he hates MIchigan and brags for a year after every win against them.  I think he is about to have his piss face on for the next five or six Michigan games.  It's time for Sparty to experience the meaning of regression toward the mean yet another time.

burtcomma

August 3rd, 2011 at 9:53 AM ^

The entire behavior by MSU alumni and fans basically reinforces the Little Bro' stereotype each and everytime one of them opens his mouth whether it is their football coach or the guy down the street flying the big green S flag.  Story has been the same since the days of Darryl Rogers and Arrogant Asses comment.

"Twenty-two arrogant asses of Michigan put on the gloves of green, and as Cavender played the Victors, they picked Darryl Rogers clean!"

 

Seth

August 3rd, 2011 at 10:00 AM ^

I've been waiting for you, Post-Tressel Diary on Dantonio. It figures that with the 180-degree reversal this year on what it means to be a "Jim Tressel Lite" that eyes would turn toward the guy who has unabashedly made his career by being another Jim Tressel (this claim is inaccurate but that's beside the point) and wonder what that means now.

Why didn't you just delete it? Dantonio's effect on Michigan fandom is an appropriate topic for the blog because part of what this blog covers is the experience of being a Michigan fan, and our interactions with rivals is a big part of that. 

Why did you thump it? The 'diary' is e-pinion and doesn't really fit the Diary criteria, which in addition to length should either provide a new and interesting perspective, comprehensively recollect information on a certain subject to make it more palatable, or present new information/research.

I think it works as a discussion topic: How have you been affected by the Dantonio era at MSU? The rest is basically a long reply in such a thread about how it shouldn't matter.

readyourguard

August 3rd, 2011 at 11:16 AM ^

Excellent.  A post about Mark f'n Dantonio on the one board that usually remains above that.

F him.  F State.  And......well, you could probably figure out who the last F is for.

BlockM

August 3rd, 2011 at 1:21 PM ^

I loled through this entire post.

Beyond the obvious development of young men and women into responsible adults, teaching life lessons, yada yada, this is what sports are about: telling someone else you hate them and they're inferior to you because their team wears different colors.

M-Wolverine

August 3rd, 2011 at 3:19 PM ^

".... then tells you she's always thought your mom was a bitch before getting in the car to go away for a weekend"

BRCE

August 3rd, 2011 at 8:14 PM ^

Dantonio is totally in Michigan fans' heads (this thread wouldn't exist if he wasn't) and will be until we PROVE the last three years were an aberration of freakish proportions.

Hoke is also inside their fans' heads. The Michigan program is obviously deeply-seeded in Dantonio's own head.