To All RR Haters...
After reading some of the posts around here, I am shocked by what people are saying about RR. I don't post here often, but I do read the forums quite a bit. What I see is people mistaking game-specific mistakes and lack of execution for deep-rooted issues with the program. I mean, really, the overreaction is getting a little much. It's childish.
First let's start with the offense over the past two games (since everyone can agree it was basically Denard being a man among boys in the first five games). We have had SEVEN turnovers in the past two games. As RR says, we are not good enough to win games with that many turnovers. Then again, who is? And keep in mind we are playing with sophomore quarterbacks, one of whom wasn't able to hit the broad side of a barn last year. These guys are still developing and are going to make boneheaded mistakes. By the way, most teams with sophomore quarterbacks not meant to be first-round NFL draft picks are going to struggle. That's just how it is.
With that said, what more do you want offensively after watching yesterday? 300 yards passing, 100 rushing? Over 500 yards against THAT defense? This is a defense with a top-10 draft pick, virtually all seniors or upperclassmen, with Norm Parker who has been there a long time. We have been yelling and screaming for a more diverse and active offense all those years under LC and we finally got it. Don't complain.
Okay, the defense blows. We can all agree with that. Now, look at the depth chart. Our seniors are role players, not dominators, save for Mouton. At some points we are literally throwing backups on the field and hoping that we don't give up six. That is how little depth we have. Just look at when we sub in Patterson. The secondary is a mess with a host of true freshmen or guys not cut out to be premier corners. And don't even start to blame GERG--I guarantee he is a better DC than most. Starting a former WR at FS as a frosh is not a start to a good defense.
Okay, you knew all that. But then you start to play the blame game and say that RR should be fired (or at least on a tight leash) since he hasn't been able to put together even a Northwestern-level defense. Yes, maybe RR should have never gone after Demar Dorsey because of grades, but are you going to fault a guy because he thought he could get a guy who would help us immediately? Turner, Cissoko, Warren, and Woolfolk were definitely not his fault. Not to mention the guys in the 2008 class (whose slots in the recruiting charts should mean that they would be our starters now) who barely made it to campus before leaving.
So, who do I blame? I blame Cissoko for making bad decisions, Warren for leaving early, Turner for never stepping up, Woolfolk's ankle for exploding, and, yes, RR for recruiting Dorsey. Oh, and the fact that Lloyd crapped the bed on the 2007 and 2008 classes.
But you have heard all of this before. So why do you refuse to listen? Probably because, naturally, we live in a society of instant gratification and we see MSU and OSU in the national headlines (for good reasons), not to mention beating us. But hey, let MSU have their moment in the sun once every 20 years, and let OSU's empire come crumbling down just like ours did. It will take time. Deal with it. Frosh will be sophomores, sophs will be juniors, and juniors will be seniors.
So, stop whining.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^
All of your comments have merit, but why do we all have to be "RR Apologists" or "RR haters?"
Can I just be an alum that loves MICHIGAN and wants to see our football program succeed? Because I don't give a damn who coaches our team as well as the boys play fundamentally sound football, behave themselves on and off the field, and uphold our Michigan tradition.
Polarization is killing Michigan football, not the coaching staff. A house divided doesn't stand.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:36 PM ^
Can't +1 this enough.
Also see: "I've been a fan of RR before he came here!" takes. Who needs the pissing match over who was a fan first? Does it make your opinion any more valid?
October 17th, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^
But you have heard all of this before. So why do you refuse to listen? Probably because, naturally, we live in a society of instant gratification and we see MSU and OSU in the national headlines (for good reasons), not to mention beating us.
That's all you really need to say. Or, to put it another way....
Haters gonna hate.
And i'm not even gonna bother to google image a funny picture of it.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:08 PM ^
That's well said.
It seems pretty bizarre for people to acknowledge that the team has a young (crazy young for B10) defense but, at the same time, to complain about scheme or how GERG is incompetent.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:08 PM ^
MSU started 7-0 was in 1966, so technically, it's once every 44 years. I can live with that. Otherwise, great post.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
I agree. RR is leading this team to big things.
Go Blue
October 17th, 2010 at 2:18 PM ^
and I am a supporter of whoever the coach is at Michigan, but really "you're shocked" by what people are saying about RR? The dude has four Big Ten wins in two and a half seasons, winless against our two biggest rivals, ncaa violations, constant defections and constant negative press. To the rest of the nation it's a shock that we haven't fired him yet. After almost three years of the same criticism week in and week out nothing should shock us. Demanding fans are going to be demanding fans.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
SInce when did MSU pass ND as a rival?
October 17th, 2010 at 2:59 PM ^
They started beating our asses regularly.
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<br>(Though really, for those who wanted to be honest and not just annoy their fans, they always were).
October 17th, 2010 at 3:13 PM ^
To the nation msu is like iowa state. No one really takes them seriously and every 6 or 7 years they put together a good squad. Nationally no one cares. UM vs msu is a local rivalry period.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:25 PM ^
LOL SPARTY
October 17th, 2010 at 10:01 PM ^
Sparty is only relevant because their fans live to hate us (read: inferiority complex) and be annoying as hell when they do win. They are the equivalent of a mosquito bite that irritates you for a week. ND and OSU are rivalries because of the history. How storied the three programs are and what is usually at stake when the meetings occur: national title hopes. Sparty has a fan base that is so obsessed with us there was actually debate on the radio last week about whether they would root for Michigan in they and OSU were undefeated going into the last weekend of the season for a shot at the Rose Bowl for them. Pathetic.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^
2-6 vs. our biggest rivals.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:51 PM ^
It is not surprising that outsiders are ill-informed about Michigan football, because it is assumed that our talent level is always very high. On the other hand, people who consider themselves fans of the program should have a better understanding of just how far the talent level and the overall program had fallen, even before RR. If people care enough to post here, they should be familiar with the well-documented and historic inexperience of our defense. RR had no idea how the terrible condition of the program was when he arrived, and he is moving the program in the right dierection, albeit slowly. The process is frustrating, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
With all of the bad luck, negativity and stumbles during the transition (some RR's fault, much of it not), it is kind of amazing that things look as good as they do going into next year.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^
Haters gonna hate. Just sit back and have faith. We'll get back to the top.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:23 PM ^
How can you be shocked? I'm still on board for RR, but even I feel a bit jaded right now.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
October 17th, 2010 at 2:27 PM ^
"Lloyd crapped the bed on the 2007 and 2008 classes."
Well ...
'07: Mallet, Warren, Van Bergen, Molk, Hemingway, Woolfolk
I see one guy there with clear NFL potential (Mallet), another who is at least close (Warren), and four others who at least a have a shot. I agree that the class is likely to look bad in retrospect.
'08 (with boundaries somewhat arbitrarily set) >>>
Lloyd: Martin, Koger, Stonum
RichRod: Roundtree, Odoms, Omameh
Those are the '08 standouts. I think it's too early to be judging that class. Give it another year.
- - -
To the main point, "crapping the bed" seems over-the-top to me. I think a look at '05 and '06 would be more interesting. With that, look at the '09, '10, and (projected) '11 drafts.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:00 PM ^
left glaring holes in the secondary. Other than that he is not at fault.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:37 PM ^
Injuries left glaring holes in the secondary.
Can we stop blaming Lloyd Carr for everything?
October 17th, 2010 at 6:33 PM ^
but our defense has sucked for most of the last decade. Save for one season in 2006 which also happened to be the worst Big Ten offense production in history, Ball State made us look human, and OSU and USC had their way. The 06 team also had absolutely no depth behind it.
Carr left the program soft, and left it thin in top talent in alot more areas than any of us were willing to admit. I really don't believe any coach could have come into this mess and done any better with the same players. The all-big ten teams and NFL drafts the last couple years speak for themselves.
October 17th, 2010 at 10:46 PM ^
He also took much smaller classes than he should have. I think the last 4 years the biggest he took was around 22 with some under 20. With all the transfers, medicals, early entries, etc its no wonder we were defeicent an entire recruiting class when RR took over.
So yeah, Carr is not entirely at fault but he has a large share of the blame. And I'm not even getting into the young OL that he left.
October 17th, 2010 at 3:02 PM ^
But they'll probably be as productive as our next 2 classes, which have had detections, and aren't lighting up the world.
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<br>And I'm still hoping Campbell becomes a contributor someday.
October 17th, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^
If possible, can you give the full version of this post. The 10 page cliff notes was too swift of a read and I would prefer you went into more depth. Thanks.
October 17th, 2010 at 4:31 PM ^
I think that post was a five star! We have youth issues on defense. Some people on this blog are too critical of anything. I get sick and tired of seeing people making childish remarks about grammar and many other things. Perhaps they should go elsewhere where they can be critical of each other.
I love Michigan and can't stand those who are on their own team and not on THE TEAM!
October 17th, 2010 at 4:44 PM ^
My cousin took me to his alma mater, Wisconsin, and we watched UW beat OSU last night.
Here are some thoughts on Wisconsin, versus our beloved Wolverines.
Wisconsin took three penalties(Michigan had eight, yesterday v. Iowa). Wisconsin had four sacks(Michigan had zero). OSU's longest kickoff return went out to the 33 yd line. And most glaring, Wisconsin's place kicker can boom the ball a mile. And he is accurate on kickoffs and FGs as well.
What is the difference between UW and M? Both teams have approximately equal talent. Wisconsin is better coached, better prepared, more disciplined, and plays without shooting itself in the foot. They don't win all their games, but they are not being pushed all over the field. Wisconsin can stand in there, and dole out punishment.
Coach Rod is a nice guy, but his excuses are getting old. REAL OLD. Michigan plays the same sloppy type of football every Saturday. When they play weak teams, they get by. When they are confronted by a worthy opponent, they get smacked. Hard. It has been three seasons of this. If you think we are making progress, you are mistaken.
Wisconsin was able to mentally toss their debacle against MSU and beat OSU because of their discipline and mental toughness; and here we all are, arguing what the positives were in our lastest beatdown. This is a joke. We are no better than we were last year, and the rest of the league knows it.
Quick. Name one player on the defensive side of the ball that makes opponents shake. Yeah. No one.
Sorry, we have to make a change next season. Unless you enjoying watching our team thrown around like a rag doll.
October 17th, 2010 at 5:40 PM ^
We are in no way in the same class talent wise as Wisconsin. Maybe the lower class players who have yet to mature or play games are more talented but that means nothing because they have zero experience. Wisconsin has better football players who have been able to relax and learn how to play at this level rather than being thrown into the fire unprepared as several of our freshman players have. This is not a coaching issue. It is a depth/experience/talent issue.
Rodriguez needs to have excuses because they are extremely valid excuses. We are razor thin talent wise on the defensive side of the ball. Choose to ignore it if you want but it doesn't make it untrue. Name a coach who would have this defense playing well. The players are simply not good enough on that side of the ball. RR needs time to build his defense. The offense he has put into place is great, not just good. When the defense is put together then we can judge the defense. It's very unfair to say the defense will never be good under RR when the quality of player is either not talented enough for this level or too young to matter. Have some patience, give him a chance to have a senior class at least before you say we need a change.
I don't see this team as underprepared or undisciplined at all. Many RR bashers have been claiming this but I just don't see it at all. The stats actually work against RR detractors when it comes to preparation. We have the 16th fewest penalties in the entire FBS! Yes Wisconsin has the fewest penalties of all FBS schools but they also have something we don't and that is several upperclass contributors. Having a team of this average age committing so few penalties is a great sign for RR's program. It's just not fair comparing Michigan to Wisconsin at this point in their program development. Michigan was left with little talent and experience when Carr left. Wisconsin has a veteran ballclub this year.
October 17th, 2010 at 5:18 PM ^
What is the difference between UW and M? Both teams have approximately equal talent.
What is the difference? Well, let's see:
Wisconsin starts 4 seniors, 5 juniors, 1 sophomore, and 1 redshirt freshman on defense.
October 17th, 2010 at 10:14 PM ^
...on this one, but allow me to say: co-signed. Thanks, OP.
October 17th, 2010 at 11:12 PM ^
I would agree with the majority of your points, however if you look at past teams of RR before Michigan when he was at West Virginia; he never had strong defensive teams. His teams there too won mostly by out scoring opponents, which is fine in the Big East. This is just not something that works in the Big Ten however. I agree that our defense is very young and should,will improve greatly, so only time will tell what happens. Hopefully we can turn things around but its obvious that what we have now isn't cutting it. We need to spend a whole practice on learning how to tackle someone.
October 18th, 2010 at 9:31 AM ^
"His teams there too won mostly by out scoring opponents, which is fine in the Big East. This is just not something that works in the Big Ten however."
Actually, I believe if you outscore your opponent you will win most of those games, even in the Big 10.
October 17th, 2010 at 11:55 PM ^
Long time lurker, first time poster. Been hearing way too many people saying one more loss and RR needs to be fired. That is just silly. RR will bring us back but he needs time. His style of play is completely different from the way we used to play and it is going to take longer that some might expect. We have obviously come a long way since last year. One more year and real progress should be obvious.