that should be studying wait in line for hours for a BBall game. What's wrong wth this picture? If this was occuring when I wnet there. I'd watch on TV. What a joke.
further adventures in Jed York being unsuited for his position
I was going to post this in the thread below, but I thought it would be better as a new forum topic (or maybe a diary I guess?) since I witnessed the whole situation and so there will be less rampant speculation.
I got to the stadium around 2:30am with my tent, and was turned away by the security guard. Went home, slept for a couple of hours, got back at 5:30. There was a line forming at the bus stop at the corner where you can go up to the big house or towards Crisler. I was about 30th in line.
At about 6:45, the people at the front of the line (now about 100 strong) started walking up towards Crisler, meaning to get the line going over there. Some people towards the back started running and then basically everyone was. We lined up at the gate where they generally let people in. The security guard came up to check us out but didn't really say anything to us about moving or leaving.
Maybe 10 minutes later, one of the Maize Rage leaders (not sure who) came up and started talking to the security guard. Apparently it was a big issue that we had lined up at the gate at 6:50 rather than 7. Long story short, she started a new line (at about 7:15) down in the parking lot without really making it clear that it was happening to the people at the front of the original line. This started a new stampede, mostly from the back of the line (now about 200-300 strong).
The people at the front of the line (me included), once this had happened and it looked like they were getting kicked out of the bleachers despite arriving earlier than the people in the other line, pretty much decided that they were staying put. A few security guys tried to get us to move and then they called the cops. The officers told us that if we didn't move, they would get a bus with 20 officers and arrest all of us. Some went to the other line (now of about 500 people) and about 100 stayed put.
Eventually (looking to avoid the PR issue) they convinced us to move to the parking lot. Associate Athletic Director Rob Rademacher took us inside the football visitor locker room (119 people total) and told us that they were going to reserve the front 12-13 rows of Section 130 for us as a compromise. He also took all of our names and uniquenames and presumably will be emailing us to get feedback on this situation. We then (a few hours later) were taken through the facility and the tunnel, and up to the section. The seats weren't quite as good as the bleachers, but it turned out pretty well and the game was obviously amazing.
My personal takeaway: the Maize Rage leader was put in a tough situation, and made a really bad kneejerk decision rather than figuring it out with the people that had lined up early. She then couldn't really backtrack from it without pissing off some group of students or another. The Associate AD was really awesome and made a good compromise from a bad situation.
Others who were there, let me know if you had a different experience.
that should be studying wait in line for hours for a BBall game. What's wrong wth this picture? If this was occuring when I wnet there. I'd watch on TV. What a joke.
I remember getting up for those noon football games was a serious chore some weekends. Especially after a late Friday night. If I had to wake up at nine or hell, even 10 to go stand in a line for a couple of hours, I'd say fuck that. BBQ on the deck with some beers and College Gameday sounds like a much better alternative.
What's the problem with camping out? A bunch of other schools do it and it more or less works. No worse than what it sounds like happened this morning.
Camping out will not be allowed until it is sponsored. Your "Cabela's Pregame Campout, brought to you by Kingsford Charcoal."
Only then will you be allowed to campout ahead of time.
What's the problem with camping out?
A.) Not many northern schools allow camping out in the winter. Everyone says "look at Duke" and forgets that Duke is in North Carolina.
B.) As a student, I don't want to camp out. At least, I wouldn't have when I was there. And I was one of the guys who always got into the center bleacher section.
C.) When the AD had a focus session with students in '09 (I was invited as a Maize Rage member and someone who went to a lot of different non-revenue sports), they made it explicitly clear that there would be no camping out when the popularity grew. I don't blame them because it would come with a lot of issues and nobody would want to give up that much time.
The problem was in that session they said they wanted to wrap the student section around, but needed the sustained proof from students that they would fill those seats. Well, it's been years now and still hasn't happened. I'm guessing they realized they can charge all those alums more and said "fuck the students"
Just about everything has been said between the 2 posts, but there's one more thing that really pissed me off about how it was handled. I was at the end of the preline, and ran back and forth between the 2 a few times much to my amusement (I was drunk, so what wanna fight about it?). When el presidente decided to make the 2nd line, she had the maize rage 'core' walk about 100 feet away from her, then she announced her line just began, and then the glob walked up behind her. Outside of her claiming she was going to give the people in the other line 'fake' numbers to trick them into thinking they would get a good spot in line, it was the most dick thing she could have done. The core made a mess, and the athletic department cleaned it up.
She probably orders drinks with diet tonic water.
Since she is a woman, would it actually have been the most vag thing she could have done?
I stand corrected.
The chick with a dick?
Here's where I'm confused: Why was there confusion over where the line starts?
Where does it usually start? Why was this game different?
There usually isn't a set time the line starts for weekday games as most kids have classes and the early time seems to set itself out. There used to be no real rule against camping out (OSU two years ago I participated in one and it was great). Then last year OSU, they kicked people out who tried to camp and I think it's been frowned upon since.
For weekend games they usually set a time around 5 hours before game time to start the line up. For example, for Wisconsin the line-up was similarly allowed starting at 8 AM and being there before didn't gurantee anything Obviously less people were in the situation fo camping out for that so it didn't become the story this one did. Bottom line is that it sounds like the core leadership needs to do a better jobs not being kinda dickish at 7 in the morning and the AD needs to clarify the rules for everyone vs counting on the Maize Rage leaders to be the bad guys.
Who needs rules? Who cares if an email was sent out saying the line started promptly at 7am? College students should be responsible-enough adults to check email that may contain pertinent information so situations like this can be avioded. Ignorance shouldn't be used as an excuse. If you dont get why lining up early is a problem I can put it into a metaphor for you:
Lets say there is a canyon that people needed to cross to get the best seats. The bridge across the canyon will be done at 7am. There is no waiting before this because it would get in the way of the bridge builders and was made known to those who were crossing. There were some people that wanted to get a jump on things so they attemped to cross the canyon before the bridge was finished (only 10 min before, but still BEFORE). They ended up falling down the canyon and broke their legs in the fall, but still blamed the bridge builders for not having the bridge done when they wanted to cross. The people who followed directions got to cross the bridge first and got the best seats. The head of bridge building felt bad for the incompetent people who tried crossing the canyon early so he gave them a room to sit (because they had broken legs), free food, comparable seats, and paid medical expenses. Overall, everyone got in the game and we beat state, so just take a deep breath.
The bigger problem is that people feel entitled to first row seats because of the time they line up. There should be a reward/seniority/loyalty system so you dont have these "fans" who have been to 1 game prior getting the prime seats. Obviously, not the place to discuss this, but it would be one of the best long-term solutions.
I agree with your last paragraph; seats for this should be assigned by overall loyalty over the course of the year, not necessarily who gets there first. Implementation might be tough but I think there's certainly a better solution there.
But that's the way the system is, and a single email that says "Maize rage line opens at 7am" is not nearly enough of a warning to anyone. First of all, not closely reading one of the million emails that Michigan Basketball sends doesn't remotely classify someone as not a "responsible adult." Second of all, that's a completely ambiguous statement...why would someone not in Maize Rage care when the Maize Rage line opens? What does "Maize Rage line" even mean? And why does that mean that people there before 7am should be relegated to the back of a line of Maize Rage core members that arrive right at 7? The email mentions nothing about consequences or even gives any notice to people that they shouldn't arrive before that time.
The bridge analogy isn't at all useful here. People can tell when there isn't a bridge over a chasm. People very clearly can't tell that a line at the gate (where it's been all year) at 6:50am is not going to be whatever line is enforced at 7am.
The "Maize Rage" is all student season ticket holders, hence when a student buys season tickets they get a shirt that says "Maize Rage". You are in the "Maize Rage" when you get a student ticket, because thats name of the student section, so one should probably start to care about these things. The "Maize Rage Line" is the line where these student ticket holders go in, hence the "Maize Rage Entrance" that all the students enter through. It wasnt just the core that got there at 7, but all the people who actually followed directions. I agree there wasnt enough notice beforehand, but they followed the guidlines in place. As I said before, ignorance cannot be an excuse. Obviously the consequences of lining up too early is not having that spot.
Ignorance of a policy that isn't clearly communicated actually is an excuse, both in a situation like this where the student group should be on the side of the most dedicated students and, you know, in real life. Stating that something is obvious doesn't make it true, especially when it's wrong. Those people were also there at 7am, lined up at the place the line always starts. Why was it in a different place this time? Why are there consequences that aren't laid out?
I don't like calling people out, but making an account just to trash this thread is kind of a shitty thing to do, by the way. If you're going to do that, at least inform everyone of your position in the situation (I'm assuming based on your statements so far that you are one of the maize rage core that started the second line, please correct me if I'm wrong).
Full Disclosure: Goblue1817 is a really good buddy of mine. I can inform you that he did not actually attend the game, but, like me, is fairly close to the core members who run the Maize Rage so he's aware of what went down. Also this thread has been taking unnecessary potshots at several of our close friends and his snark is himventing his frustration at that I actually disagree with him about adequate communication occurring (which I'll bring up at the meeting tonight). The biggest problem is that the security guards left their post at 6:45 when they were supposed to remain there until 7 so people understood they were not to line up before then.
Again I sympathize with those who got stuck in the front fo the first line (my roommates were among those) and I have no real dog in this fight as I had a non season ticket holder student seat up in sec 220.
Adding on to the BraveWolverine, I am an alum who had tickets each of my 4 years. We had priotity seating for major games in (I believe) 3 of my 4 years. I still think there should be something in place, but it is hard to do with so many students and so little premium seating. I did not start this just to "trash a thread", but rather to give a point of view from people who showed up when they were told to. I never said there was enough communication or that anything was near perfect, just that an intiial guidline was indeed set through the Athletic Department. If you still think I came on here just to spite you that's fine, but I suggest taking your concerns up with both parties (AD/Maize Rage) so that something can be done in the future instead of just mulling of the same problem of what already happened. I believe everything will be improved because of this as long as people collaborate.
The AD gets their collective briefs in a bunch because UM students are drinking / tailgating prior to football games rather than in their seats at kickoff. Thre was some discussion of the upper classpeoples having a sense of entitlement because they have prime seats due to seniority.
To resolve this the AD institutes a first-come-first-seated policy with a specific time to commence lining up.
Okay. Got it.
Then the students who generally get in line first form a Maize Rage group which generally gets in line first. But the Maize Ragers then get a sense of entitlement and when other UM fans not in such club are in line before the Maize Ragers, the latter group fucks up the priority of who is in line on a first come basis and storms the gates as soon as a new line is formed rather than politely allowing those who arrived first their first-come-first seated status.
Okay. Got it again.
Didn't get it.
That sounds like exactly what happened. The maize rage formed their own line and then announced that was the official line. How the hell is it up to them anyways?
Like DCAlum, I too was in the initial line. I showed up with one of my friends around 6:45, thinking 15 minutes was not going to be that big of a deal. I saw the mass of people run through the parking lot from the bus stop, but decided to walk behind them as I was still going to be in the bowl.
My friend and I got in line, probably about 150 people back from the start of the line. We lined up in the same spot that we have for every other game (in front of the student gate, up a flight of stairs by the Big House tunnel) and just stood there peacefully, assuming we would be freezing, like usual, until we were let in at 10:30 or so.
About 20 minutes went by, when a car pulled into the parking lot. About 5 people got out and started talking to the security guard, as previously described. After talking, the group formed a mass at the bottom of the stairs leading into the line where we were standing. The girl shouted, "You guys aren't in line! This is the actual line." (Excuse me if that is paraphrased.) Some rushed to that line, as an instinctual reaction.
My friend and I did not because we believed that she was trying to trick people to cut in line. No security guard before her said anything to us about trespassing, being too early, etc. (There were security guards standing around us before 7 a.m. - none of them said a word before that girl got there.)
For about 20 minutes, we just stayed in line, assuming that this would all just pass, as we were doing nothing wrong. One security guard said to me and my friend, "You guys should get in that line. This apparently isn't the line anymore." (Again, excuse my paraphrasing.) No official announcement was made, though, and the second line had already grown to about 300, so we did not want to risk losing our spots (which definitely would have been in the bleachers).
About 5 minutes later, a security guard went to the front of the line and made the announcement to everybody that we were all technically trespassing and that, if we did not get in the other line, they would call the police and we would be arrested. We were all outraged, as we thought we did nothing to prompt getting arrested. We waited about 5 more minutes when, not surprisingly, a cop car sped into the parking lot.
The cop announced to us that if we did not follow their orders and go to the end of the second line (which was now at about 400 or so students), we would be arrested or prevented from entering the game.
Now, I can talk a mean talk, but when it comes to getting arrested, I abide by the law. My friend and I gave up our fight and headed to the back of the second line. The brave souls that stuck it out did end up getting into section 130, but there was no way of us knowing that before we left the line. As I said, we thought we would get arrested.
When going down to the second line, we asked if we could go to the front of the line as a feeble attempt to maintain our good standing in the line. We were told no, and headed to the end. My friend and I ended up sitting in the upper bowl for the game.
While it is hard to complain about this situation because of the amazing game we got to watch, I am still disappointed in the entire situation. There were Maize Rage core members in the first line with us that were threatened, just like me and my friend. However, as the core, they ended up getting in the bleachers anyway, so I doubt they will complain to the Athletic Department. Furthermore, as I said, no security guard said anything to the students that arrived too early before the girl in question spoke with them.
What makes me the upset, however, is that we were threatened to be arrested for standing in line for a basketball game. Of all the illegal activities and dangerous behaviors college students partake in, standing in line 15 minutes too early seems to be low on the priority level of the police. However, we were threatened and, as a law-abiding citizen, I left the line. Those that had more courage than me were rewarded with decent (though not bleacher) seats to avoid PR trouble.
My view was not nearly as good as those courageous few. Like I said, it is hard for me to be upset after such an amazing game, but it is also hard for me to hold my tongue after such an injustice. For about three freezing hours of my Sunday, it was hard for me to be proud to call myself a Michigan Wolverine.
As a side note, there is obviously no way for me to prove to the Athletic Department that I was in the first line, as I left before the 119 students were talked to by the University. The only proof I have is a screenshot of a Snapchat my friend sent out of us standing in line. The only proof I have is my word.
Thanks for reading and Go Blue!
You guys are the people that I think got the most screwed by this situation. Thanks for the story, and I'm really sorry that happened.
Thank you for the post to share my story. Like I said, I'm upset, but it was hard to be angry after a game like that. I just felt bad for my friend because he has to buy his tickets game-to-game and paid $70 for his ticket. It was just a bad situation that I hope will help lead to a better future for students. Go Blue!
I hope you've already emailed your story to the AD. If not, please do. They need to reckon with the full effects of their screw up here.
I am one of the students who arrived "too early" and had to sacrifice my bleacher seat for section 130, which was a great gesture by the associate AD, but still doesn't make up for the fact that I should have been in the bleachers. What is most aggravating is the fact that there were many "Maize Rage core" members (I know this because I have attended a few meetings and am on the email list) in line around me before 7am. So obviously they didn't follow the rules either. Some of these core members protested and refused to leave the line, as did I, but were not punished like I was. As soon as the cops came, they migrated over to the "new line" and were able to get into the front based on their "Maize Rage status", while the rest of us were denied. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's ridiculous.
Maize Rage is a student organization, and although it does have ties with the Athletic Department, I expected much better. Basketball seating is on a first-come, first-serve basis, and if security guards fail to do their job and let people line up at 645 rather than 7, then those are the people who get the best seats.
Late to the discussion, I know. I've been places where they have a raffle to determine the start of the line. Helps minimize lining up as you lose the advantage of being there early but also doesn't prevent you from going early if that's what you want. You may still have a chance to be first. I don't know if it would work on a group this big, though.
They hand out raffle tickets to the first 100 people (or whatever the rules are). It can either be a # cut-off or time cut-off but once the tickets are handed out, a number is drawn and that person gets to be the first in line. Everyone before that moves (in order) to the end of the line (or end of the raffle participants). There no advantage to lining up early but it's "fair" as everyone knows what they're getting into and should have the same chance. But it doesn't completely alienate the people who want to get there early because it they're #1 or #50, it's not as bad as getting arrested.