QB Angst

Submitted by Meeechigan Dan on
I find it amazing how the value of Threet is being overstated almost as a badge of wisdom amongst the Michigan writing elite (whoever that is...people like Rivals folks and established bloggers; I know Brian is composing something along these lines at this very moment). It is an obligatory, painful thing to watch. I think it's horseshit. If it's a sign of respect for Threet, then whatever. I am not inclined to go out of my way to be hushed and respectful to people who don't honor their commitments. I won't slam the kid, but I am not going to mute my opinion of his worth as he heads out. He was not a good QB. Any potential he had was, like sandpaper on skin, painful and at the expense of how RR wanted to conduct football here at Michigan. He was a living, breathing, walking, snapping, throwing example of a square peg. The upside for the square peg fitting into the round hole is never high. There are many, many, many, many, many reasons why the prospects of these incoming freshman are vastly higher than with Threet. 1. Threet = square peg; Forcier and DRob = roung peg 2. One more year for the other 100 players in RR's system 3. The OLine will be vastly improved. The read option handoff, which was usually into Molk's butt, will likely be viable 4. RB is more settled and the weapons are many 5. More electrons 6. Easier schedule 7. Better defense expected, although this puppy has yet to be fleshed out. One would assume that cohesion on the defensive system and the emergence of some LB talent would make the D better. Can they get worse? All in all, I'd rather have Threet. Not starting, mind you, just around. I would have been much more concerned if Mouton transferred or Ryan Van Bergen.
threet
Forcier

Comments

STW P. Brabbs

February 18th, 2009 at 9:32 AM ^

Overall I agree with your stance here. I just think the real-life analogies that everyone is using are inapt. There should be more loyalty shown a football team than a sales firm, no? Even though self-interest is not checked at the door for a football team, a team is still not beholden to the dictates of capitalism to the same extent that a business is. I'm still not going to crucify Threet for making a decision he saw as in his own best interest - especially since he transferred here while a pro-style offense was installed - but reducing everything to self-interest and playing time is a bit over the top.

Joined: 08/27/2008

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foreverbluemaize

February 16th, 2009 at 3:26 PM ^

This is what I don't understand about the whole thing. When Threet transferred to UM Lloyd was still there. I know that he wanted to play for Lloyd but Mallet was a freshman and Ryan being a 5 star recruit Threet knew that he would have to ride the bench behind Mallet. If Mallet had not left Threet would never have seen the field anyway. When he transferred to UM he did it under the impression that he would have to ride the bench but now that he will have to do it he is leaving. It just does not make any sense to me. I wonder if Mallet had stayed and we had a great season if Threet would still be leaving. Funny side note, if Threet goes to a D1 school, he will have to sit out one more year so by the time he gets to play his 2nd season he will be a senior. He could petentially be a 6th year senior. I guess that leaves time for 2 more transfers. Maybe he can be the fisrt player to go to 4 different schools on 4 different scholarships and never be any good at any of them.

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foreverbluemaize

February 16th, 2009 at 3:06 PM ^

It is my guess that no matter where he goes he will not play on Sundays. I would say that it was his hope last year that he could grow enough to become a Sunday player, but that did not happen. I think he probably stuck it out through the off season to see what the new recruits would look like and now that he saw what Tate looks like he now knows that transferring to a D2 team will be the only way he will play anymore. If he goes to a school that runs a pro style offense he may do well and will probably earn the starting job. I think he may come to regret leaving UM for the sake of playing football but as long as he gets a degree I think he will be OK. But just not as nice of a resume as it would have been if he could list a degree from UM.

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Ernis

February 16th, 2009 at 3:13 PM ^

While his experience would have been "valuable", it is important to keep in mind that although Threet was technically a RS Frosh, his burned year of eligibility made him, for all intents and purposes, a 3rd-year QB with 0 gametime experience. But he still had those years to hone his passing ability, athleticism, and every other physical element of the game. His improvement this year would not be in completions or speed, but in managing the game experience (all the intangibles that come up in it). So we should not have expected huge improvement, anyway. Good post, Dan

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AC1997

February 16th, 2009 at 3:49 PM ^

First of all, I don't think any of us can call Threet a Prima Donna. We don't have enough information, so let's not bother. Otherwise a lot of guys are going to get lumped into that category. The fact is, only one QB plays at a time and it is a position where kids most often seek out a system that fits their talents. Mallett, Jason Forcier, and Matt Guittierez are all the same in that regard. Threet was not a good QB last year. But for a RS-Freshman thrown into his third coaching staff since high school he wasn't atrocious. Compare his stats in 2008 to those of Mallett in 2007 (with a far better supporting cast). He showed enough potential that he could be a solid Div-1 QB, especially with WR that run good routes and an OL that blocks for him. Was Threet going to sit behind Mallett? Most likely. But he probably figured he'd be redshirting during Mallett's freshman year, sit behind him for 1-2 years until he left for the NFL, and then had his shot to start as a junior - the ideal recipe for a QB's growth chart. He found himself looking at a situation where he has a shot this year to start, but after that the coaches are going to bring in one stud running QB after another to try to displace him. By his Junior year he'll be David Cone reincarnated. Since he has a lot of eligibility left, he decided to leave now. I'm disappointed and frustrated, but I can't fault him at all. As for 2009, this hurts the depth big time. I expect to see both freshmen split carries like Florida did with a freshman Tebow. And I'd expect Feagin to move back to QB for depth....why not?

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ATLWolverine

February 16th, 2009 at 4:06 PM ^

As far as Threet coming to Michigan to "ride the pine" behind Mallet, I strongly disagree-- in a pro-style offense and with his four star credentials, he clearly thought there would be a quarterback competition, regardless of what we think. Given RichRod's completely revamped offense + much-hyped freshmen + general consensus that he will not see playing time, it seems a pretty intelligent decision for him to leave Michigan. He stuck on board this year to see if it could work out, clearly things didn't, and the future is Forcier/D-Rob/Gardner. Threet may have the tools to excel in a pro-style offense; it's difficult to tell when his o-line blew up two seconds after contact and turned virtually every non-run play into a screen or quarterback keeper last year. I wish him well, especially having played through injuries and what appeared to be a bizarre bias towards Sheridan by Rodriguez.

Joined: 02/16/2009

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chitownblue (not verified)

February 16th, 2009 at 4:35 PM ^

David Mooseman and Mark Ortmann are incumbent starters, and Jason Kates has already transferred. Perry Dorrestein, Adam Patterson, David Cone, Carlos Brown and Kevin Grady are RS seniors and can't transfer anywhere. So, really, you mean "Toney Clemons" - who played a decent amount last year, and likely will this year(who from this class will take his time?).

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AC1997

February 16th, 2009 at 4:46 PM ^

Threet didn't come to Michigan necessarily thinking he could take Mallett's spot. 2007 - Mallett is a freshman behind Henne, Threet is redshirting 2008 - Mallett is a sophomore starting, Threet is a RS-freshman backup 2009 - Mallett is a junior starting, Threet is a Sophomore backup 2010 - Mallett is in the NFL, Threet is a Junior Starter 2011 - Threet is a senior starter 2012 - Threet is in the NFL In his mind he's coming to the #1 producer of NFL pro-style quarterbacks. He's watched Henner, Guittierez, Navarre, Henson, Brady, Greise, Dreisbach, Collins, and Grbac make the NFL before him. He's figuring that he'll sit behind Mallett for two years of eligibility and then get his shot for two years. Instead, Carr retires and Mallett leaves. Threet now finds himself #1 on the depth chart by default (though we should remember he actually didn't beat out Sheridan in the fall). He figures he'll give it a shot and see if he sees a path to the NFL in an offense that doesn't suit him. Now a year later after being beat up and miscast as a freshman he looks at competition from two young kids that are more suited to the offense and who will be around for the rest of his career. He decides to try his luck elsewhere - figuring he can still have those Junior-Senior years to get a shot at the NFL. I'm bummed, but I wish him well and understand his logic.

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a2bluefan

February 16th, 2009 at 4:52 PM ^

Perhaps Threet transferred to UM, even knowing (or assuming) that he'd be a backup to Mallet because he thought coming to Michigan (aka Pro QB Factory, Scot Loeffler GM) would bode well for a possible future in the NFL. Michigan, as far as QBs go, is no longer the program Threet came to. If the program I went to school for were suddenly disbanded, I'd transfer, too.

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Meeechigan Dan

February 16th, 2009 at 5:19 PM ^

I am weary of trying to following dex and chitown down the rabbit hole. Since I said so much more than I said when I said what I said, let me tighten it up a bit. Initial Post: Threet's value to the team is overstated and the projection for a dire repeat with current freshmen is horseshit. OK, discuss.

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Blue Durham

February 16th, 2009 at 6:15 PM ^

Michigan is in a position where a true freshman HAS to start. It is not like there is a couple of journeyman back-ups of 3 years experience in the program who get beaten out (thus the freshman proves himself in practice). The only QB with experience is Nick Sheridan! What if one or both of the QBs are slow to learn the system, to develop? What about the physical toll spring practice/summer camp has on the 18 year old QBs? Nagging injuries could become major problems. Injuries brought about by 22 and 23 year old, physically mature defensive players pounding on the much less mature 18-year old QBs who are use to a high school speed of the game. I for one do think things for the team and coaching staff can quickly become dire. This is my major worry: another 3-9 season could end RR's tenure at Michigan - a prospect that would prove devastating to the program. Threet's departure makes that (although still improbable) more likely. A couple of injuries (or poor adjustment to the college system) on these QB's, and Michigan is looking up at 3-9.

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AC1997

February 16th, 2009 at 5:47 PM ^

The 2009 starting QB will make more mental mistakes than Threet would have in 2009. That's my opinion based solely on experience. BUT, the 2009 starting QB will make more plays within the format of the offense than Threet would have because they are physically more gifted athletes. We're going to want to poke our eyes out at times watching true freshmen throw the ball or fumble it or make a bone-headed decision. We may even at times wish Threet had stayed. But those moments will diminish over time and we'll have some moments when we thank the football gods that our QB can escape pressure and turn a 4-yard run into a 40-yard run. But we need to remember that the history of freshmen QB's is a dismal one. Mallett, Clausen, Threet, Navarre, just to name some we're familiar with.

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Meeechigan Dan

February 16th, 2009 at 6:04 PM ^

That says it all, with an adjunct: "The 2009 starting QB will make more mental mistakes than Threet would have in 2009. That's my opinion based solely on experience. BUT, the 2009 starting QB will make more plays within the format of the offense than Threet would have because they are physically more gifted athletes." and better suited to the OC's system...

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jwfsouthpaw

February 16th, 2009 at 6:08 PM ^

This officially devolved into an unproductive discussion. Let's ignore (1) Threet's motives for leaving and (2) Threet's performance on the field last year. The question: Can Michigan succeed with a true freshman dual-threat QB at the helm of a more experienced offense? Assumption: Forcier or Robinson starts next year Definition of "success": 6 wins (likely bowl game) Verdict: The ever-popular maybe. I say yes. Michigan's rushing offense decidedly improved in the last 4 games of the season, and that is especially encouraging given that (1) Minor, Brown, and Shaw all return; (2) the entire offensive line returns; and (3) the starting QB will be a MUCH bigger running threat. This bodes well for the team: a successful running game would take a lot of pressure off a freshman QB's throwing ability. The fumbling issue should be SIGNIFICANTLY improved. Minor appeared to solve his fumbling issue. Shaw has a year of experience (and strength training). Ditto Odoms. The kick/punt returners could not possibly fumble that much again (could they?). Michigan was almost dead last in turnover margin for a reason. Eliminating just some of those bonehead plays deep in their own territory should help. And RR has a history of improving turnover percentages in his second year. I think the defensive secondary will be more effective. Teams will still get their yards, but I have to believe that the frequent conversions on 3rd and long will be lessened. Cutting down on just one or two big plays per game would help tremendously. I think that Forcier is entering a different situation. RR seems much more optimistic this year (and by his own admission, he fell victim to the "this is Michigan" mentality when he first arrived). RR knows his personnel much better. A dual-threat QB (even a freshman) will open up the playbook, though maybe not in the first few games. So yes, even though Forcier/Robinson will struggle, I think the team can still improve. Far from certain, but a bowl game is not impossible. Lastly, Forcier seems to enjoy the spotlight. He likes being the leader. I never got that impression from Threet. And I would be willing to bet that Forcier loves the idea of starting immediately. That "swagger" will help. Teammates reportedly gravitate towards him. That's at least encouraging.

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Elno Lewis

February 17th, 2009 at 9:32 AM ^

Meeechigan Dan, is one of the best trolls I have ever seen. Wait, Honey, I can't come to bed now! Someone on the Internet is wrong!

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JimBobTressel-0

February 17th, 2009 at 10:47 AM ^

Easily the dumbest person I have come across on boards. Its idiots like you who give the most mentally demanding position on the field and the place where Barwis can least help you to prepare for gameday (the other mentally demanding places being o-line and safety) the littlest time to grow and prosper.... Sam Bradford, in his first game in a Redshirt freshman under an offense he had played in all his life, went 21/23 passing. People like you then expect all freshman to be able to pull that shit off. Threet is in a way, way different situation.

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S FL Wolverine

February 18th, 2009 at 2:45 PM ^

I personally don't think it's such a big deal that Threet left the team. Is there some amount of "he walked out on his teammates and left them holding the bag"? Sure, I guess so. But I also think what he did was in his best interests. He wasn't going to shine in this program, and would probably have no shot at making the NFL running the spread in college. So he sees the handwriting on the wall when the new kids come in, he knows he's gonna ride the bench, and he transfers somewhere where he can play to his strengths and *maybe* make it to the NFL. (Will he make it? Absolutely not. He's not currently accurate enough to hit college WRs who are wide open, let alone thread the needle like you need to in the NFL. But that's beside the point. He thinks he has a chance.) But I digress. Some history. Threet transferred to Michigan to *compete* with Mallet, and per the Daily article written, he thought he had outplayed Mallet at a summer camp and could beat him out at Michigan. Then, one year after getting here, Mallet's gone and he has a new coach with a new system he absolutely sucks in. He’s got a work-out fiend for an S&C coach and he vomits every day he works out. But he gives it a shot. He hangs in there when he gets hurt and he keeps working even when he isn't getting any better. But he just doesn't have the tools to succeed in the spread (or perhaps any other system) and all the coaching in the world does not make him a better spread QB. So he decides to leave. Given the change in system, which is like a complete change in management at a company, I have a hard time ripping him for leaving. And I don't think he's a primma donna for doing it. Maybe a little self-interested, but who isn't? Should he really sacrifice any chance at a future career to please his teammates? Yes there is a commitment to the team, but let's not act as if that's 100% binding and things don't change. That doesn't mean I think making a promise isn't morally binding, but nothing in this world is 100% black and white. There are some mitigating factors in this circumstance, such as the school, in a way, not living up to its part of Threet’s commitment when it changed coaches, unwillingly I know. But the terms of the agreement changed midstream. That’s reality. I don’t fault Threet for changing his commitment in response. Whew.

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