Fixing Michigan Football in '21 (and beyond)

Submitted by umgoblue11 on December 5th, 2020 at 10:44 PM

I've been stewing on this the past few weeks. Honestly, this year has sucked from just a pure humanity aspect. Listen I love Michigan football, but dealing with a global pandemic and Covid ravaging our communities puts things in perspective. We all need to show some humanity to these coaches and players. Coaches are terrified they could be putting their kids and wives at an elevated risk. These players haven't seen their families in months. They have been yo-yo'd back and forth with a season canceled and then having it re-instated. They've been tested and been quarantining better than anyone in their age group. This has been mentally taxing on all of them. So please, let's keep perspective here. Michigan demands excellence. We should absolutely be in the Big 10 race every year. Be competitive and win against OSU (especially at home). These are things I absolutely think we should demand. But Michigan is not anywhere near the level of Alabama, OSU, or Clemson and I don’t see them replicating that model anytime soon. That’s why it’s so disappointing that this team this year has been a mess. They’re young, injured, they’re missing they’re 4 out of their top 5 players, and they haven’t developed a QB. 

All that to say I think this is all very fixable. I know it doesn’t feel like it right now, but the program is not broke like it was under Hoke. And most people I've talked to agree. This section will be an assortment of thoughts from people in and outside the program that I've heard from. This is an amalgam of a ton of people that I've talked to packaged as one voice.

What’s our program’s Vision and Identity?

Michigan has lost its vision as a program and its identity needs to be re-established. I think our culture is actually quite strong. That sounds super scary, and most fans will be like OMG fire the staff. But here's the issue-- Michigan will never give an incoming coach the time it needs to fully re-establish to rebuild all these 3 things together. If you bring in Matt Campbell, he has to win at least 10 games next year and be competitive against OSU. No small task for a coach. If he comes in and goes 7-5 and loses to OSU he immediately loses the confidence of the fan base. Harbaugh is the only coach that had fans inspired and excited. The simple truth is that there's no other program savior out there. Hell, I'd argue that they’re only two coaches that could meet that standard right away-- Nick Saban and Urban Meyer-- and we ain't getting either. 

My biggest issue is that I can’t identify what our vision and identity as a program is this year. Michigan is landing top guys on their recruiting board, but they are all over the map profile wise. Defensively you are bringing in a bunch of tweeners. Guys who haven’t been playing their future position. I see a lot of DL that need to bulk up, but you have to take some guys that have that size already. There aren’t any 6’5 250 DE’s for example. Look at the guys Clemson have brought in on the DL the last few years (ignore the stars for this example) They are almost all the exact same profile. Have a vision and an identity in how you want to beat teams and the rest of this will follow. But you need a QB. Flat out, this is the biggest program difference-maker. Can not stress this enough. You need to bring in as many QB’s as you need to develop one guy. Who cares who transfers out as long as you have THE GUY. Michigan has not done that since Chad Henne. 

Vision, Culture, and Identity:

Here are some examples of what I mean by vision, identity, and culture. I'll use Alabama as an example:

Vision: A pro factory. Come here to win and then go pro. Players are cogs in the machine. There is no program in America that will have more depth than us. Players meet specific physical criteria on a position basis. Each group has a profile that they meet or Alabama doesn't recruit them. Bring the best talent from the South and then cherry-pick a few studs from the east coast. Notice scheme isn’t part of Bama’s vision. They build the best scheme around the guys they have. Vision isn’t the plays you call.

Identity: Tough, big, and physical. They win the game at the LOS. Practice more intense than a game. 

Culture: Constant competition. Every year a guy is coming in to take your spot. They don't care about your stars, you all arrive at the same point. 

What needs to be fixed:

Harbaugh is tough to work with, he’s quirky, he’s weird, and he definitely has his favorites. Guys that remind him of himself. Guys like Ben Mason. Players love to play for him when they are winning and they see a path to the pros. But he hasn’t forgotten how to coach. He’s a true program builder. He needs to approach this next year like he’s coming back in with a fresh start like when he came back in 6 years ago.

The problem is you need dogs in your program. And I don’t see a lot of them on this roster. Ben Mason, Haskins, Charbonett, Bell, Giles, and Aidan are the only guys that I have seen that have it. These are guys who have the talent and you want in a streetfight. The 2016 roster was full of them: Peppers, Bush, Winovich, Vert, JLew, Glasgow, Taco, Mo Hurst, Gideon, Butt, etc. These are guys who brought it in practice and in games. They had swagger. They were tough. They were physical. I don’t see a roster with these types of guys on the roster right now. It’s not just about stars in that case. You need stars, hunger, the desire to be great, nastiness, and when you line up against these dudes they are going to try and embarrass you. Guys who want to make it in the NFL, and want to put elite plays and that desire on tape to get there. Devin Bush is the gold standard of this. He wasn’t a five star in the rankings but was a 5-star program changer. A true baller. Find more guys like Bush.

Offensively we need a clear plan. What are they trying to do? Do you want zone lineman or pro lineman who move guys off the ball? Do you want to run the zone read with a mobile QB or are you trying to spread teams out and exploit space vertically with the passing game? Harbaugh doesn’t call the offense. He’s active in game-planning. Feels like he’s told the offense to control the clock. Tempo is what’s needed the most. What good is a no-huddle if you stand there for 25 seconds and look for a play call? The defense never has to adjust. This offense in its current form is not speed in space. They need to run the ball to set-up the pass and then kill them with deep shots. 

Defensively: Simplify, simplify, simplify. You can be multiple on defense, without being complicated. Michigan looks like they know they can’t run the system they want to, but are too stubborn to make the adjustments so they’re stuck in no man’s land. You have to build through the spine of the defense. There’s no QB of this defense. Who’s the guy who’s leading out there? Aggression doesn’t work if you can’t tackle or get to the QB. Covid has destroyed their ability to work on the fundamentals. 

How to fix this in ’21 and beyond:

Here’s MY opinion based on what I’ve heard. I believe Harbaugh knows he has to revamp his coaching staff. He’s had some good combos of coaches, but they always seem to leave. He needs to find the right combo again. Coaches that have cohesion together and aren’t just randomly thrown together. 

Completely revamp the support and recruiting staff. Michigan needs to be run like an NFL program. They lost Tom Gamble, and haven’t replaced him. Harbaugh loves Sean McGee and Dudek and they’re both good at their jobs, but you need to put together a complete staff. Have Dudek focus on just on-campus recruiting. Let McGee run that staff if you want, but bring in the top talent across the nation to help him out. Hire a DPP that has a pro scouting background. Build this out and have this be the crown jewel of the program. Take the pressure off of the assistant coaches and let them focus on just contacting kids and building relationships. Build out a Bama scouting and recruiting program and don’t ever let yourself get outworked. Have this be a pipeline to the pros for these positions. It’s okay if you cycle through these positions, because you’ve built out a vision and these folks are following it to a T. They're not taking state secrets with them. Every college graduate that wants to work in a front office someday should be coming to Michigan.

Final Thoughts

Michigan may not be 12-0 next year, but if we see a cohesive offensive strategy and bring some guys with an edge to the defense, I think this can be turned around. Sounds easy, right? I don’t have any inside info on what’s going to happen. Michigan keeps it’s circle small, like really small. I think there’s a lot of educated guessing going on. But if you have any questions, I’m happy to answer them below. 

Comments

umgoblue11

December 6th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^

In my experience, you only fire for two reasons. There's a better candidate out there and the current person just can't get it done. Who's walking through that door and fixing these issues right away? It's not going to be Campbell. Now if we had patience as a fan base for him to come in and rebuild it the way he sees fit, I could 100% get behind that hire. Those people are frustrated--hell we all are. But firing someone just to fire them is an awful idea.

 

UMProud

December 6th, 2020 at 2:07 PM ^

So why do you think the guy who has allowed Michigan to slide in the abyss will, all of a sudden, magically restore it?  

If he had answers or the ability to fix what is broken don't you think Jim Harbaugh would have done it by now?

Look at our first quarter stats over the last 3 or 4 seasons and find another coach in NCAA football with similar stats...you won't find any.  There is something drastically wrong here.

crg

December 6th, 2020 at 6:34 PM ^

For someone that has allowed the program to "slide into the abyss", he has gotten them into position to win the conference more often than not.  Most seasons, the division is still on the line by the time the OSU comes around.

Yes, beating osu to finish at least once every few years would be nice, but let's keep perspective - things weren't a tire fire prior to this season (and this season really doesn't count).

JFW

December 6th, 2020 at 7:16 PM ^

let's keep perspective - things weren't a tire fire prior to this season (and this season really doesn't count).

That’s my biggest beef. People are acting like everything prior to this year was like RR and Hoke. Some just don’t like Harbaugh. Some have delusions of granduer (we should be in the playoffs! We’re Michigan!). Some I think listen to sports radio too much and just download controversy. But they aren’t being realistic, and it’s annoying. It rhymes with the same people I heard whining about Carr. 

Brian Griese

December 8th, 2020 at 8:01 AM ^

The division has NOT been on the line OSU week for the majority of Harbaugh’s tenure. We’ve gone into OSU week only 2x controlling our own destiny: 2016 & 2018. Every other year, including this one, we could have won by 64 points and not gone to Indy. 
 

People seem to forget in 2015 we needed both to win and have PSU beat MSU the last week to go to Indy.  2017, 2019, 2020 we were already eliminated before taking the field. 

CC_MFan

December 5th, 2020 at 11:01 PM ^

I think what you wrote is true, but most of these issues are a result of Harbaugh.  Do you have the impression that he knows and wants to fix these issues? I think many of us on the board don't believe that Harbaugh is able or willing to fix these issues.

umgoblue11

December 5th, 2020 at 11:32 PM ^

I would say not everything that happens in the program is Harbaugh's fault. There are some things that are outside his control and would fall under administrative issues. Let's put it this way. We're on our third coach with a lot of the same issues internally. Bringing in another coach isn't solving these issues IMO.

MGlobules

December 6th, 2020 at 9:13 AM ^

If--reading between the lines--H has had to cool it, on the advice of doctors, friends, whatever--then he has been trying to make the very difficult, no-guarantees transition from inspirational (sometimes screaming) youthful inspirer to more laid-back delegating program eminence. 

Let's say he's just midway through that project. At this point I can safely say we are failing to thrive. But if he's going to be given the keys back for one more ride, you're absolutely right, next year it not even in the realm of possibility that we threaten for an NC, a whole lot.

In that sense, a (rumored) three-year contract could be the way to go. . .

If things are on the upswing next year, cool. We write this year off (with the pitiful awareness that this will be the first year in--what, 150?--that we don't have a home win. 

Cannot have it next year without a firing and housecleaning.

And--further--stay OR go, the AD has to have his eye on a world beyond Harbaugh. The D or O coordinator should be a strong candidate. . . 

EDIT: If your analysis bears out, then the conversations we should be having here should not be re-treaded disputes about the same three hackneyed names for head coach but about O and D coordinators. Obviously (I think) Don Brown will be on the move. I wish to hell I could say I had some faith in Gattis, but there have been too many deer-in-the-headlights I got nothin' moments on third and three-to-ten. 

Teeba

December 6th, 2020 at 12:34 PM ^

Brown earned the trust by assembling a resume over 20+ years as a top notch DC (pre-Michigan career.) Gattis was Co-OC for 1 season prior to coming to Michigan. Harbaugh was an NFL QB who had 1 losing season as head coach prior to this year. Right or wrong, I certainly can understand why he would want to provide more input to Gattis than Brown.

 

Glennsta

December 7th, 2020 at 8:06 AM ^

Um, it sure seems like everything that you outlined as problems (recruiting players that don't have the desire to be elite, not formulating a clear offensive scheme, and not running a defensive scheme that fits the talent) all are under JH's control.

They're all valid criticisms, but they don't seem like "administrative issues" to me. Certainly, improved recruiting would help things, but even that's largely JH's responsibility.

MadMatt

December 5th, 2020 at 11:27 PM ^

Let me add one thing: NIL is coming.  The program needs to be researching how to use this to maximum advantage.  Just like when the NFL outlawed the hitting of eligible receivers 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, the first team to figure out what this means will win, big.  The Steelers got their 3rd and 4th Championship.

In my opinion, an NIL regime will legalize bagmen.  ("Son, I collect the high school memorabilia of players who suit up for our program.  If you come here, I'll give you $500,000 for one of your game worn jerseys.")  Advantage teams that have bagged under the table in past seasons.  There will be other effects; Michigan needs to be on the cutting edge of those changes.

If Harbaugh doesn't want to get into the weeds with this, fine and dandy.  Not everyone can be the best at everything; the mark of a good leader is finding people who can do a job better than the leader.  Hire someone!  This cries out for a Moneyball approach.

umgoblue11

December 5th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^

This is a great post. I could write a whole diary on just this alone. It's very much-- innovate or die in this area. You'll see coaches embrace this and those will be the ones who succeed IMO. That and the transfer portal. You should be scouting every team in the DI to find guys who can come in and play and then backchannel recruit them. That's what I meant by having an NFL support staff.

Jordan2323

December 5th, 2020 at 11:48 PM ^

I really do think we need to be finding not only quality recruits but kids at other perhaps smaller schools who are successful and recruit them to transfer to Michigan. Look how well Mike Danna worked out for us? We are Michigan, kids from CMU and other small schools where these kids were undiscovered diamonds in the rough are the ones we need to get here, especially in key areas of need. Take the dline for example, go poach kids across the country that are showing out at their school and bring them to Michigan. Since we can't really do Juco, this would be our version of it. This offseason would be a hell of a time to do this since we can get seniors and grad transfers who aren't exhausting their eligibility. 

pawolverine

December 11th, 2020 at 2:33 PM ^

Please do write a diary on NIL. Can someone start the “Wolverine NIL Foundation” consisting of funds named things like “Signing day fund” where every donor gets an email with the pdf of all the signed LOIs, and every signee gets to split the fund in proportion to their ranking? And a “Roster fund” for retention where every player who doesn’t transfer gets a portion based on PT or something measurable, and fans get a copy of signed program? You could do this for every sport. Could it even be made charitable somehow? It seems to me that once NIL is here, the money cannon is going to focus like the eye of Sauron on (especially football) recruiting, in every legal way that the many many brilliant mgolawyers can imagine and implement. Do coaches even have to be involved? When will this finally begin?

trueblueintexas

December 6th, 2020 at 12:57 AM ^

I haven’t been one to push the old Harbaugh/New Harbaugh argument, but I will here. When Harbaugh first came in it was easy to see he had a ton of ideas and a staff who helped him figure out what was legal and what wasn’t. Satellite camps, foreign trips, etc. The NCAA (much at the SEC’s bequest) moved as fast as they could to take away all of the advantages Harbaugh had found. Since then, he has hardly tried anything to make up the gap. I think the “Harbaugh rules” really broke Harbaugh’s excitement for trying to compete with the Clemson’s, OSU’s, Alabama’s.
I get it, I would be pissed and sulk about it also. Those program’s blatantly cheat. Harbaugh knows it. He tries recruiting many of the same kids that go to those schools so he knows what he is competing with on the recruiting trail. He has also been around football long enough to know what a roided up program looks like vs. a normal team.
If I was a coach and had to deal with an organization which said “we’re going to turn a blind eye to those really bad apples, but we will make sure to crack down on anyone else” I’d be less motivated also. 
I believe Beilein basically communicated this is why he left Michigan for the NBA. I’m guessing the only thing keeping Harbaugh around at this point is his love for the school and his desire for Michigan to not fall further behind the “have’s”. He probably believes he’s the only one that can keep them somewhat competitive winning the Michigan way.

umgoblue11

December 6th, 2020 at 10:45 AM ^

Let me also put it this way. When Saban complains to the media about a rule it gets changed for his benefit. And if it doesn't his AD is out there behind the scenes making sure he keeps his coach happy. Where is that at Michigan? Where is the support from AD and the University to back their guy and go to war with him? And if I just hired my dream candidate and I'm at a school like Michigan, every single year I am going to ask my coach what he needs. How are we getting outrecruited? How do we combat some of these inequities? How do we push the envelope as close to the line as possible without stepping over?

 

JFW

December 6th, 2020 at 7:22 PM ^

A-men brother!!!

I really see Michigan having a huge opportunity here. We have a huge fan base in rich, well populated areas. We have great name recognition. The pitch should be “come here and your name can be on billboards in LA to New York selling stuff to the biggest alumni base around.”

and 100% with transfer portals. That and the one time free transfers, with NIL, are college football game changers. We’ll either take advantage or die. You can use transfers to reload and shore up quickly.


Michigan could be huge here.

I really worry our administration will find it too gauche or something.

umgoblue11

December 6th, 2020 at 10:13 PM ^

Our admin finds everything gauche. I've met the President in a few cocktail settings and know a few people that have met him in a more personal setting and we both had the same impression. He's got the personality of a robot. That he'd rather be getting a root canal than interacting or fundraising.

I'm not one of those mouth breathers who are like fire the President he doesn't care about football. I'm an alum so I'd rather he focus on keeping the University academically great. But he's had a rough go of it the last year.

JFW

December 7th, 2020 at 9:02 AM ^

Ahh. No longer on my phone. Easier to type.

I don't know, nor have ever met Schlissel. I never found him particularly 'likeable' in the interviews I've seen; very robotic as you say. That said, until COVID and the handling of the sexual abuse situation I felt he was doing a pretty good job. Now though... he just seems out of touch to me. I'm really hoping that the President and Regents, on a number of issues, can be a bit more realistic and grounded in the challenges the University faces. 

How do you feel about the idea of an 'NFL' degree? I'm an alum as well. My Mom taught there for years. I do value academics, and used to be against it, but after thinking about it I honestly think there is an opportunity for Michigan in terms of helping itself, and helping people. I.E. take the kids who are outstanding athletes but grew up in lousy school areas, or with other challenges, who might never make it in a traditional Michigan degree and give them the education, basic skills, and shared experience that might get them into the league, and through it, without going bankrupt or getting used. Maybe that sounds a bit too mercenary, but to me it's more of a riff on the idea of giving an 'uncommon education to the common man'. 

I remember Denard once saying that there were a ton of people in his town that grew up in crappy circumstances but had great talent. I guess my idea would be: 

A) Use NIL to recruit kids from crappy backgrounds who need more than just a scholarship. Use resources at Ross to help them craft a plan and an image. Sell the idea of our large alumni base. 

B) Once they are here, use an NFL prep degree for these kids. Basic financial skills (don't fall for every investor); basic skills on how to act and present ones-self. Basic study skills. Expand their opportunities and vistas (I so love the team trips for that). Bring in old NFL/UM alums to advise these kids. Have a mentor on campus to keep them straight. 

C) Once they are gone to the league, leave them a door open to come back and finish a more conventional degree if they so choose. Also, leave a door open for them to use so that they can run ideas past a financial or business advisor (No sir; condos in Syria are not a good investment. 

Just a thought. 

Ghost of Fritz…

December 7th, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^

I really do not mean to be overly negative, but isn't this stuff really far down the list of reasons that Michigan has underperformed under JH (or really ever since RRod)?

Aren't the real reasons for this long bad stretch really very simple--that the HCs ended up having certain glaring flaws?

JH:  Just to list five...  Terrible end of half/game clock management; never developed a star QB; his teams plays VERY flat on the road; as OP points out, failure to create an identity and recruit to fit that identity; even worse, choosing the wrong identity and being inflexible about it (body blows 'dammit we are running right at you on 2nd and 9!' and 'we put CBs on an island no matter what!')...could list others...

Hoke:  Recruited well, given the circumstances (arrived after RRod years), at least until it was obvious that his time was up.  But...just not really anywhere near the sort of brilliant X/O football mind that is now necessary.  

RRod:  Once the world figured out how to defend/contain the read-option, he had no response, no wrinkle. Among the worst Ds in Michigan football history.  Never really recruited near M's ceiling. 

Main point:  Even if your suggestions were all adopted, Michigan would have still done about the same under RRod, Hoke, an JH as they have done without your suggestions. 

Why?  The problem is very simple--the HCs actually had significant flaws (most of which were not evident when hired, others which perhaps could have been predicted) that lead to varying degrees of underperformance.

JFW

December 7th, 2020 at 3:18 PM ^

Those are valid points; as an aside I personally think Harbaugh's flaws really started to manifest post '16 (I have no idea why. Not sure that anyone does. Just hope he's okay). 

I guess I'm putting for the idea that I believe Michigan is going to have to hit all those things *as a floor* of behavior if they want to be successful. And have a good HC on top of that. 

You make valid points about our coaches. And aside from Hackett's search our athletic department hasn't covered itself in glory (or even exhibited above average work) in it's coaching searches. I'm afraid in an era of NIL and transfer portals coaching changes will get *alot* more expensive in terms of talent. And if you add our lousy track record of getting good coaches on top of that... we might see UM football crater. Suppose Campbell comes in (he's the first name that comes to mind, I'm not picking on the guy) and continues to lose to OSU and does 8-4/year. This is a distinct possibility. We still struggle with an identity; and players see opportunities elsewhere where they might play right away instead of manning our two deep. No reason to stay to just get nuked by OSU every year and have a fan base rip you at the stadium and online all the time. 

So.... nailing it on those things would be the first step to stock up talent quickly. The second step is a coach who can do something with the talent. Otherwise you end up like Hoke; who reminds me of McClellan. He could build the team but....

 

Ghost of Fritz…

December 7th, 2020 at 3:39 PM ^

I agree with you here and really like your ideas.  The point about the NIL factor is spot on.

But...I guess I am in the school that thinks that the HC and staff are about 90% of the whole ball of wax at Michigan (or Texas, USC, ND, OSU, Bama, other places that have had long periods of 75% plus winning and only shorter periods of terrible teams).

For Michigan and those other schools, it begins and ends with locating that truly elite coach that can make the program run at capacity. 

OSU has done that with Tressel and Meyer.  Bama picked the right guy with Saban. 

Michigan really has not located 'the guy.'   So even if Michigan plays the NIL thing right and does all the other things you suggest...   If the right coach/staff is not in place...then it will stay at the 8ish (maybe 9ish) win level, on average. 

Chris S

December 5th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^

I've honestly been hoping you would be doing a post for a few months now. From your past diaries, you really seem to have a level-headed understanding of what's going on. The Myths and Half-Truths one, especially, was really an eye-opener for me. Thank you again my man!

I have been thinking a lot about our role as fans. Basically, when everyone complains about the culture being bad at Michigan, they have to understand that fans play a role in the culture as well. Imagine if you're JJ McCarthy or Xavier Worthy and you happen to stumble on MGoBlog in the heat of all this negativity and heated opinions... imagine the image that gives about the environment.

To me, our job as fans is to support in public. Period. It's okay to flip the rational switch off for 14 hours every Saturday and talk to your dad or friends about stuff, but if you're writing or posting in a public place and you want to be a good fan, I think the only thing that we can control is our support. I know I didn't do a good job of this in the Hoke era, and I'm trying to do a better job of that now.

So then I started to think about what our expectations as fans should be. My initial thought is if we can be in a state where we average around 9 wins, beat Sparty 6 out of 10, and beat Ohio State 4 out of 10, we'd be on the right track. But this is what I wanted to ask you about.

If you, umgoblue11, were the Athletic Director at Michigan, what do you think would be realistic to expect within the next 3-4 years in terms of record, rivalry games, and whatever other metrics you think are important?

umgoblue11

December 5th, 2020 at 11:46 PM ^

Thanks man. I appreciate it! Let me think on your question some more. But I'll leave you with this:

The two least popular people in the Michigan fanbase are the OC and a QB who throws an INT. I have been to more games at the Big House than I can remember, and no one turns quicker on those people than Michigan fans. Even when we were really good in the 90's! A QB throws a pick, let’s put the back-up in. The offense doesn’t score 35 points, OMG I can call better plays than that bozo. People standing and yelling at the OC. Screaming Bench Henne and put in Mallett! Bench Brady and put in Henson! Bench Navarre play Gutierrez! I've flat out had former players tell me they hear that when they played. 

I've been to games in tons of other stadiums and maybe I blocked it out or something, but I've never heard as much vitriol.

Chris S

December 6th, 2020 at 12:09 AM ^

Interesting stuff. That would be an interesting poll to take across the CFB landscape. I'm sure Texas and Tennessee would be up there in fan hate.

Also, I did a quick check on Wikipedia for CFB records starting in 2000. Here's a few teams' rough averages (I included "vacated" wins):

11ish wins per year: Ohio State, Boise State(!), Oklahoma

10ish wins per year: LSU, Georgia, Clemson, Alabama

9ish wins per year: Texas, USC, Virginia Tech(?), Oregon, Wisconsin, Florida State, Florida

8ish wins per year: Auburn, Miami, Nebraska, Michigan, Iowa (very Ferentz: 81 wins the first decade and 80 wins the last decade), Penn State, Notre Dame, Oklahoma State

 

Ghost of Fritz…

December 7th, 2020 at 3:18 PM ^

But here is the thing...  Many of the schools in the 8 or 9ish win zone really do have fundamental situations that could produce 10 or 11ish zone outcomes over extended periods. 

The Michigan, ND, Penn State, USC, FSU, Florida and Texas fan bases will all (quite rightfully) be disappointed with 8-9ish zone results over longer periods.  All of those schools really do have the potential to get at least up to the 10ish win zone for extended periods. 

Why?  First, all of those schools have in fact done it before.  And all of those schools have the money, stadium, history, etc., etc., that sort of puts a floor on their recruiting. 

But...all of those schools still have to find the right coach at the right moment.  Bo at Michigan in the 70s.  Carroll at USC.  Holtz at ND.  Meyer at Florida.  Tressel at OSU. 

Just find the right guy, and Michigan (on a 15-year underperforming stretch), or USC, or Texas can become real playoff contenders most years.  Just gotta locate the right HC.  

We thought JH was that guy.  Seems that he is not.  Texas thought Herman was that guy.  Nope.  USC?  Helton is not that guy either, though in fairness I doubt USC ever thought he would be that guy.  OTOH, no one thought Pete Carroll would produce some of the best USC teams ever, but he did.

OSU found the guy(s) in Tressel (seemed like a weak hire at the time) and then Meyer (the sure thing that did, in fact, work out).   Bama found the guy in Saban (not considered a sure thing when he was hired).

itauditbill

December 6th, 2020 at 7:29 AM ^

If the vitriol is bad at 8 to 10 wins.. what will it be like with this team next year? It is not clear that the team has a competent QB, and it most certainly doesn't have an offensive identity. Which reminds me of a "compliment" from Coach Dantonio in 2017 talking about how well coached the Michigan team was saying on offense the Michigan team ran 40 different formations in the first half. A half that they scored 3 points in. When Dantonio made that comment I just shook my head. If you have 40 different formations dollars to donuts the defense can read those keys pretty well and you don't have a great deal of surprise coming out of them. (I could be wrong however as I never played nor coached football) The defense also is very flawed as was pointed out in the most recent neck sharpies showing how the play of the cornerbacks doesn't match the number of players being brought in to "pressure" the QB. 

I myself am pretty much broken... I don't even get that excited anymore, up or down. I would say there is the loud minority who gets quite angry, but that group while probably getting louder is getting smaller. The growing population are those, like me, who loves the university I graduated from and wants the best outcome athletically for the major sports, but realizes that is probably not going to happen for various reasons that have been written about ad nauseum on the board. 
 

Glennsta

December 9th, 2020 at 9:13 AM ^

I ask myself, being 100% rational, when are we going to have a realistic shot at winning the conference? 

At present, with what I have seen from JH, I can't project any conference championships. Why would I?

Anyone that thinks that this program is close to winning the conference under the current regime, tell me what year and why.  People need to set aside fan-worship as well as pure hope and think again. Big changes need to be made.

umgoblue11

December 6th, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^

Ok so here are my thoughts on our fanbase. First, our fanbase gets used against us all the time in recruiting. There's a certain coach who just beat us (there are 4 of them so take your guess) that has lined us up in the crosshairs when he goes H2H with us. Do you really want to play at a school that if you drop a pass they're going to boo you or harass you online? 110k+ of people who only support you when you play well. Fair or not, when you are the big dog you are going to get shots taken at you by other programs. A perfect example is Dax Hill. Bama was in his ear. He flipped. Fans lost their minds. He comes back everyone loves him. Then the team is having a bad year, and all I'm hearing is he should just leave. His heart isn't in it. He looks like he doesn't care. He's already in the portal. It's like damn we really eat our own here. Build this kid up and let him be the DUDE next year. Don't tear him down. It's sadly not just a Michigan problem, but a societal problem.

You can have negative opinions without rancor and hate. Buying tickets and merchandise does not give you the right to do and say what you want. If you own voting shares in a company via stock, and you are upset you don't go to the shareholders meeting and scream and yell. I get it, sports are a release for people, and I'd say 90% of MGo are reasonable people who this rant doesn't or won't apply. Brian and Seth have created a platform of savvy readers, but sometimes it can devolve into the message boards. 

I would say that it's mainly social media, but I've been hearing this same type of crap since the early 90's at games. It just would be nice to talk about the players in a positive manner for once. Again, this has been told to me by multiple former players. They love the fans and they love Michigan, but their feelings sometimes are very mixed. Guys have struggled mentally because they feel like it's the Team Vs. Everybody. If they make one mistake they have to keep their heads down.

No one loves you more when you win, but if you mess up on the field, you better have some tough skin. Ronnie Bell was a 2-star recruit and he's having to say to fans I am going to prove to you that I'm worthy. Like he owes it to a bunch of people to show why he should be at Michigan. Talk about pressure, man. Why wouldn't he just go to Kansas State and put the same numbers up and be a hero there? 

Cade came off the bench and balled out. And all we hear about is how bad it is that we barely beat Rutgers. AJ Henning a true frosh that made a baller catch. He's got a chance to be really good. But instead, it's the same tired arguments. No, it's not just our fanbase that does it, but when you want to claim superiority over others, it sure as hell looks like a culture problem.

 

Brian Griese

December 6th, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^

Fans that want to berate players are jackasses.  I am not going to defend them.

However, would you agree though this becomes a problem because fans are fed sunshine-blowing BS from January 2nd - August 21st every year? This program has an excessive amount of mouthpieces and does far too much mouth running relative to the recent amount of success it is had.  I get they need to keep people interested and sell 100,000 tickets every week but I think we can all agree it is way too far over the top.  

umgoblue11

December 6th, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^

One thing I've learned in my career is to always look at how the information is presented and what the angle is and who's the source. The Sam Webb's and crew of the world are about as close to the program as you can get. I trust their info and I really like their approach. They are talking to the Dudek's and the coaches. For example, the Milton hype this year. Hypothetically of course, but maybe Harbaugh/Gattis was telling them hey man this Milton guy has all the tools. He can be a big-time player. In practice he looks like the real deal. We don't know how he's going to perfrom when the lights come on though. He has the biggest ceiling. He's not there just yet, but he needs to feel the confidence from the fan base. He needs that support. If they rip him too early that could ruin his development. Sam writes posts that attempt to do that without anointing him as the next big thing. Fans get super excited and then when they think his performances doesn't match up they get rightfully upset. 

I'll tell you directly what I was told about Joe from several guys that recruited him. He's either going to be generational talent or he's going to washout. He has everything you need in a QB but needs to be built up. The mental game needs to develop to match the physical game. 

crg

December 6th, 2020 at 6:41 PM ^

I agree with the assessment on Milton (just from my non-expert view of his gameplay).  He's tall yet mobile, strong body, cannon arm yet can throw with touch (at times - needs work still).

The biggest issue I noticed is decision making - he's slow to analyze the field and often does not make the right choice (or in time when he does).  None of this is physical, so yes - with enough work he could become a GOAT.  Not even close as of now.

Chris S

December 6th, 2020 at 5:29 PM ^

Man that was frustrating to read the first part about using our fanbase against us. That's my point! We play a role and we actually have more control over it than we think. Great points about Ronnie Bell and Dax too.

Do you have any examples of big time programs who are known for having more understanding fans? Or is usually just the "smaller" ones like K State?

 

JFW

December 6th, 2020 at 7:29 PM ^

I get very, very frustrated with our fan base. They can be so negative. Guys in the stands screaming for a player to be benched. People who seem to take it personally that the team doesn’t match their vision for it. Adults ripping on kids. It’s just BS.

I had one guy prior to the season tell Me earlier that he thought we should go out and “just get PJ Fleck”.

 

me earlier that he thought we should go out and “just get PJ Fleck“.

And I thought to myself is why on earth would a man who is adored in Minnesota want to come here?