This Week's Obsession: 98 or 7? Comment Count

Seth

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[Fuller]

I scrapped the original question because there's a burning one out there:

Gardner or Morris? Who should start, who will start?

Ace: Before the press conferences this week, I'd still have gone with Gardner—despite his awful performances against Notre Dame and Utah, I think he still gives Michigan the best chance to win. We've seen him at his best—and playing at his best while overcoming injury and a horrendous O-line—and that best is right up there with any college QB, while Morris has yet to show much other than similarly inconsistent, turnover-prone play in his short time on the field. If this team needs to win now, and to save Brady Hoke's job they clearly do, I think Gardner is the play unless he's so broken physically/mechanically that it's impossible for him to scrape his ceiling. (I'm about 80% there on thinking this is the case, by the way, but last year's Ohio State game lingers in my mind as a strong counterpoint—remember, that performance came out of nowhere, and he had a broken foot to boot.)

That said, the way this has been handled publicly makes me believe Morris will be the starter—why not dispel the speculation if there isn't going to be a change?*—and at this point I think they have to go with that. Most fans believe Morris will be the starter and most are ready for the change now whether or not they were on board; if they head into the Big House thinking that way and Gardner is announced as the starter, there are going to be boos directed at that decision—which is basically booing Gardner, probably the person associated with the football program who least deserves that treatment—and that's just not going to help anything. I understand the reasoning behind putting Morris in—he's the future, the present option isn't going so well at all, and he gets the chance to learn on the fly in a game setting and hopefully improve before our very eyes—but it's a huge risk for Hoke if he goes there, especially if he sticks to his word that he won't rotate QBs.

Playing Gardner comes with its own risks, of course, but the biggest risk is still playing a QB with this career stat line: 36/67, 340 yards (5.1 YPA), 0 passing TDs, 4 interceptions.

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*Since the most common response I've seen to this is "so Minnesota has to prepare for Gardner," I'll note that there's no way in hell Minnesota isn't preparing for Gardner—and Morris, too—no matter what Brady Hoke says in a press conference.

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[jump for the rest of us]

Adam: I'm going to answer the original question (what's wrong with Gardner):

25% PTSD. Every time Gardner gets hit I wince, a torturous lowlight reel of Gardner being pulverized simultaneously flashing through my mind. 2013: not yet repressed. It seems that Gardner has been feeling pressure before it's actually there in 2014, which is the other portion of why I think Gardner's decision-making has been so poor.

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How we laughed. Oh how we laughed.

20% Still adjusting to new offense. I think this is responsible for a portion of Gardner's biggest problem, which is his inability to make decisions promptly. I also think that this is the acceptable portion of the issue, as not having a complete grasp on a new offense after four games seems reasonable.

Putting Gardner under center makes no sense. That's like me trying to squeeze my two-month-old into newborn diapers; things might be okay for a minute, but it's a bad fit and there's inevitably going to be a mess to clean up later.

15% This is who he is. I'm not entirely convinced that he's hit his ceiling, but when a guy seems incapable of working through a progression I can't eliminate it.

10% Screwed up development track. He played wide receiver in 2012 and missed out on reps at quarterback. He also was unstoppable throw god Devin Gardner that same season, so I don't think position switches and coaching changes explain the stagnation in his development.

10% Playing from behind. Down and distance too.

5% We can't block. 2014 has seen a significant improvement in Gardner's protection. In the 2013 Notre Dame UFR—a virtuoso quarterback performance—the protection metric was about 44%. Compare that to 2014, when the protection metric was 66%.

5% Opponents. There have been multiple tipped ball interceptions so I guess maybe that's MAKING A PLAY

Not a factor: Receivers. Funchess extant, other guys have been fine.

10% Unexplainable phenomena. Not ruling out alien abduction.

With regards to Morris, his development in this offense isn't any further than Gardner's but he hasn't been subjected to rib reorganization. Most of the troubles apply to both guys.

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Brian: Morris is apparently starting. That is the buzz from everyone. 

I don't think that helps Michigan win games. We've seen him for about two games worth of work. He has the statline Ace mentions above, and the context is even a bit worse since the bulk of his yards against Kansas State came on screens and the instant Michigan tried to open it up he threw a near-INT and then an actual INT. Plus we saw him throw a couple of terrible interceptions in scrimmages. Meanwhile, while he's pretty mobile he doesn't bring what Gardner does on the ground.

If they've finally destroyed Gardner I guess they have no choice; I'm not expecting much. I mean, I am expecting about 4 throws that are wow experiences. But I'm expecting equally many in the other direction, if not more, and an offense that has six sets of training wheels on. These will be the Carr type training wheels, not the kind of training wheels that let any-damn-body roll off a Big 12 team's bench and put up 400 yards, which means a lot of runs into the line, and punts.

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Seth: I am not one to argue with any part of Sam Webb's gastrointestinal system, and that's the only reason I think Morris is the likely starter, barring some sort of all-hands trolling of the fanbase for wishing a firing upon the men in charge (Hoke knows Kill too well to think the Gophers won't prepare for both).

Who should start? Gardner. Gardner. Gardner Gardner Gardner. Certainly he has looked pretty wobbly this season, and certainly the reasons for it aren't going to go away in a week. But Gardner is a senior and was responsible for two of the best performances by a Michigan quarterback in memory: Adam mentioned the ND game last year (with 56% of blitzers unblocked!!!) and I add to that the Ohio State game. Gardner on a roll is a sight to behold.

Getting Gardner on a roll has been the problem. Teams got the scouting report starting with Penn State last year: take away his favorite receiver and blitz him so hard his lizard brain can't find another. Minnesota is a largely man-to-man defense that will probably use a safety to double Funchess. It's a good opportunity to develop another target, and I wish they would because the most likely route to a job-saving upset over the rivals this season is Peak Gardner.

My worst fear is an offensive version of that Purdue game when Rodriguez overruled his DC, forced the defense into a 3-3-5, and all hell broke loose. I'm terrified that this is all part of a "Future: Now" movement to bring back heavy sets run-heavy, and I'm terrified of offensive decisions that come down from on high since hopes of competent offense under Brady have always hinged on him keeping the hell away from it. A quarterback decision has to be a head coach decision. It reeks of a panic move. Panic moves are bad.

Comments

SC Wolverine

September 26th, 2014 at 6:12 PM ^

Our only hope for the rest of the season is that the qb play improves dramatically.  Devin is not going to improve and B1G defenses have proven how to own him.  Shane may improve if he is given reps, an opportunity to work things out, etc.  I'm not saying that he will.  But he might.  That is our only hope.  I'll tell you one thing, though, Shane isn't going to underthrow wide open receivers by 15 yards.  That alone might have won the game v. Utah.  Love Devin.  Sorry for Devin.  But our only hope is a Shane who gets better with PT.

umumum

September 26th, 2014 at 9:55 PM ^

overthrow them by 15 yards directly into the arms of an "open" safety--if he is allowed to throw downfield at all.  

Shane has shown absolutely nothing to date.  And, as Ace suspects, we'll likely just get even more conservative offensively if he starts.  Oh boy!

DG hasn't been owned by Big Ten defenses--as the Ohio State and Indiana games, among others, prove.  Your suggestion otherwise is silly and/or myopic.

Leonhall

September 26th, 2014 at 10:13 PM ^

Did you just point out Osu and Indiana's defense? Any defense with a pulse has figured Devin out. If he's hurt, sit him, he has been bad this year. Realistically if Shane is bad, he'll be on par with Devin, make a change.


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MGO GSP

September 27th, 2014 at 7:53 AM ^

Yeah, keep throwing Gardner out there and watch the turnover pile up. Maybe Morris will suck, but give the coaching staff credit for trying something different.

wahooverine

September 29th, 2014 at 8:44 PM ^

You really showed me Captain Hindsight.  At least they made it into the redzone and even scored an offensive TD against power 5 competition.  How many times has the team under Gardner accomplished that momentous feat? Don't act like benching Gardner wasn't an obvious choice after 4 games of looking lost, throwing inaccurately and making inexplicably poor decisions.  No one said Shane would be a world beater but you gotta give someone else a shot when the current guy isn't even close to getting it done.  

Eye of the Tiger

September 26th, 2014 at 6:15 PM ^

...as long as he's healthy, I'm pretty sure it's going to be Gardner. Why? Because Hoke's opacity on this issue feels more like a manifestation of general opacity (and even outright hostility) in press conferences that it feels like a hidden message. In other words, I feel as if people are trying to read the tea leaves from a guy who is keeping all the tea clutched tightly to his chest, alongside an assortment of uncured hot dogs, ball bearings, post-its and whatever else he keeps in his office and doesn't want to share with the press and general public. 

That, and the fact that surely Hoke understands that there's an actual number of wins that can save his job, and that there's a good chance we won't reach that number. For all his faults, Gardner is the safer choice, and playing for the future doesn't really matter if you, the coach, don't have one.

On the other hand, maybe Garnder is injured...that would make a lot of sense, actually.

 

mdoc

September 26th, 2014 at 7:18 PM ^

This all reeks of the preseason, when motivational tactics ruled. Gardner isn't performing how he should, so what is Hoke's go-to sub-ass fire-lighting statement? "Your job is up for grabs." But the established starter always seemed to "win" that job. Maybe it goes so far as to bench Gardner for a game. Regardless of what happens tomorrow, I think he starts against Rutgers.

MGoRob

September 26th, 2014 at 6:39 PM ^

What about those rumors about Gardner having nerve-type damage in his foot that is preventing him from doing a full progression in footwork after a pass.  If, and that's a big if, that's the case, then an uninjured Shane would be the best route.  But is this true?  Who knows. And with the Fort in full lockdown, would we even hear about it till after the season?

WMUKirk

September 26th, 2014 at 7:07 PM ^

The damage is in the is believed to be to the flexor retinaculum, causing tarsal tunnel. And there is no easy fix for it, it could take up to 12 months to restore most flebility and power. If that is what it is, rest is the only thing that can fix it. If it isn't that then it could be an infection. DG wants to wait until the end of the season before he decides on surgery, or if Morris becomes entrenched in the starting role, expect surgery around Week 8, with speight moving to #2 on the depth chart.

mGrowOld

September 27th, 2014 at 7:32 AM ^

What you are describing is entirely consistent with both the possible after-effects of his injury against OSU AND what we are seeing now in terms of his mechanics re stepping into his throws.  

If he does have tarsal tunnell in a nutshell his foot hurts - a lot - and it's making it very, very difficult to throw the ball correctly.  I dont think an infection is very likely - that sounds more like "wishful thinking" on the part of the coaching staff than a medical diagnosis.

BIGBLUEWORLD

September 26th, 2014 at 6:50 PM ^

Why have we had two quarterbacks who can run like the wind, who show courage in the face of adversity, who are a credit to the university and excellent human beings by every measure, and can't throw the damn ball?

aplatypus

September 26th, 2014 at 10:02 PM ^

but go recheck the last 2 offensive UFRs, man. He had some pretty open guys he just missed. We had almost 2 guaranteed TD passes against Utah if Gardner could have thrown the ball about 50 yards with quasi-accuracy while having a clean pocket and time to set. We all know he can make those throws, he's done it in the past, which is where a lot of the injury talk is coming from I think. 

MayOhioEatTurds

September 26th, 2014 at 7:08 PM ^

I'm not sure starting Morris is the best option for Hoke's job security, either.  In the short run, Morris may provide more losses than Gardner. 

But having watched Gardner play, I am in the camp that believes Gardner is broken.  In the long run, it's time to play Morris and allow him to develop, if he can.  We aren't winning a Big Ten Championship with Gardner this year, and next year Gardner's gone.  Hoke is also likely gone.  Morris will remain. 

Perhaps Hoke really is doing what he believes is best for the team, and not for his own job security.  I don't doubt Hoke's love for Michigan. 

It's sad to watch Brady's tenure unravel. 

Sten Carlson

September 26th, 2014 at 8:20 PM ^

Gardner, according to my own speculation from observation and WMUKirk's alleged close knowledge, is injured, and perhaps seriously.  I think the coaches have tried and tried to make the best of the situation, and work around the injury, but last week it became and untenable situation.  They cannot, and should not, keep putting DG out there when he's not performing and leave the heir apparent on the sidelines getting no meaningful reps.

It's not "punting the season" as many say, it's a necessity and a decision that I believe every coach in the nation would make right now -- especially if DG is truly injured.

Shanes presence is going to open up the deep ball, and thus open up the running some -- which we need.  DG has lost his threat to run, and his passing isn't making anyone respect the back end.  As such, they just blitz with impunity and keep hammering the kid -- it's a viscious cycle that usually leads to turnovers.

umumum

September 26th, 2014 at 10:01 PM ^

then Hoke needs to say so.  I hope to God he isn't hiding an injury to "keep the other team guessing' or even worse to spite the media.  If he is, then he is being horribly unfair to DG who is taking a whole lot of abuse on forums like this.  

umumum

September 27th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^

and DG has gone out there week after week without complaint--and got his ass pounded behind a terrible offense line (and scheme).  Trust me every opponent we played knew Denard was hurt and couldn't throw--so we were fooling no one (but ourselves).  And I love Denard, but he didn't take this kind of abuse.

I truly don't get why so many believe not disclosing injuries creates much if any tactical advantage.  Teams are looking at tape, they see the limitations, and they can effing prep for more than one thing at a time.  If using two different style QBs meant much (we have to prepare for both), then that would be the norm in college football.  It isn't.

 

BornInA2

September 26th, 2014 at 7:13 PM ^

The bickering about who should have started gets oh-so-much quiet if we pound Minnesota into purple/magenta goo (what color is that anyway???!??)

Winning makes many problem go away. Unless you win by cheating, which is like borrowing from the mob and thinking you can get away with not paying it back.

maybaum

September 26th, 2014 at 7:17 PM ^

... but at least he is a legitimate threat to throw the ball. Gardner just looked so awkward throwing last week, and as many have noted, was short a lot. To quote UFR: "this is a broken QB"

True that Morris' results last week were also poor, but given the situation, it's hard to say with conviction that he'll be that way in the first quarter of a 0-0 game.

Most important of all: we just need a damn break!!! And seven is such a lucky number.

reshp1

September 26th, 2014 at 7:18 PM ^

I've been a staunch Devin supporter all along until the last game. The time has come. I know the odds of Morris being much better (or any better) are slim, but you can't just keep sending Devin out there when he's clearly in a deep slump and probably hurt as well. If Morris collapses, then Gardner goes back in and you're right were you started off, minus one or two terrible turn-overs, which we're having anyway. You'll take that for a chance at a spark to jumpstart the offense.

I also think you guys are selling Morris short. Yeah, he didn't look great in the scrimmages, but he was still better than Gardner both times. The KSU game was just fine for a true freshman start. They limited his risk and he did well in that circumstance, as planned. Pushing the ball downfield trying to make up a big deficit isn't exactly high percentage, nor has Gardner been great in that scenario either.

BayWolves

September 26th, 2014 at 7:36 PM ^

Just give Gardner the damn ball. He is still out best QB and will provide the best chance to win. O line has to block and receivers need to use both hands. Devin should be allowed to run whenever he damn well pleased.

Mike420GoBlue

September 26th, 2014 at 8:24 PM ^

Hoke is trying to make a square peg fit a round hole with Gardner. Any coach that's worth a shit would play to his players strength. Remember Gardners first start a couple of long years ago? He was audibleing, hard counting, mostly in the shotgun read option! Where the F has that gone? Under center, play action doesn't work when the QB has been disemboweled behind the o-line.
If Hoke starts Morris I don't know if I can support him for throwing Gardner under the bus like it's all his fault.
Help your players use their strong points, forgodsakes