These sorts of shots were going down for MSU [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Michigan State 83, Michigan 67 Comment Count

Alex.Drain January 29th, 2022 at 2:49 PM

It's difficult to win in basketball when you don't hit shots. It's also difficult to win in basketball when you play poor defense both in the halfcourt and in transition. MSU shot 55.4% from the field. Michigan shot 37.1%. MSU shot 50% from three. Michigan shot 15.8%. That's mostly all you need to know as to why Michigan lost to their in-state rival by a score of 83-67 today in the Breslin Center. 

In the first half, Michigan did some things well to give them a shot to win. They forced turnovers on defense and they attacked the offensive glass, allowing them to take significantly more shots than Michigan State. The Wolverines also isolated a favorable matchup of Hunted Dickinson against several MSU bigs (primarily Marcus Bingham) to great effect. Unfortunately, they didn't hit enough of the non-post up shots, and when they weren't forcing turnovers on defense, they were struggling with ball screens, allowing easy layups at the rim. It also didn't help that MSU knocked down their threes at a higher clip. In total, despite what felt like a strong first half, the Wolverines went to the break down four. 

As it turned out, the gas needed for Michigan to hang with the #10-ranked Spartans for twenty minutes was most of the gas they had in the tank. The Spartans started the second half on a 10-2 run to push their lead into the double digits and from that point forward, the game was not terribly competitive. Michigan continued to get their buckets inside from Dickinson, but both he and Diabate appeared more tired than in the first half and while the Maize & Blue perimeter shots continued to clang off the iron, MSU's started to go down at an even higher clip. By the time Joey Hauser was pump faking Dickinson and knocking down a long two, and Gabe Brown was canning a thirty foot three pointer sending Breslin into a frenzy, the game was long gone for the visitors. MSU coasted for most of the second stanza and won by sixteen. 

Moussa Diabate was a rare bright spot today [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Overall, this was a thorough rout, no matter the areas where Michigan did play well. The Wolverines got to the line more than the Spartans and did attack the offensive glass with tenacity, but they also had more opportunities to do so because they didn't make nearly enough shots. Juwan Howard was smart to repeatedly feed Dickinson and his performance was certainly admirable- 25 points- but he and Diabate were Michigan's only two reliable offensive contributors. There were times that the freshman from France looked like the best player on the court, but he stalled out in the second half, and combined, Dickinson and Diabate encountered for nearly 54% of Michigan's points. 

The rest of Michigan's roster didn't produce merely enough offense. Caleb Houstan wasn't able to follow up his recent hot streak, scoring just 11 points and only attempting 3 three pointers. DeVante' Jones also reverted to early season form, only scoring 6 points and struggling to defend the ballhandler and prevent penetration, getting thoroughly outplayed by AJ Hoggard, who posted 11 points and a whopping 10 assists. Eli Brooks was 1/4 from outside, and Michigan got a mere 6 bench points total. While MSU freshman Max Christie lit up the scoreboard and knocked down several huge shots (3/4 from three), Michigan's heralded freshman class besides Diabate was more or less missing in action. Michigan couldn't find a single player to hit shots from the perimeter with the efficiency that all of Christie, Malik Hall, and Joey Hauser were for MSU. 

Caleb Houstan wasn't able to get much going [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

The inability to hit shots from outside muddled a decent offensive gameplan, though. On the flip side, the defensive approach was confusing at best and terrible at worst. Michigan was set on blitzing the ball screens and got torched repeatedly, in the process sapping the energy of their big men who they desperately needed to make anything happen offensively. MSU's ability to routinely get easy layups at the rack out of the ball screen game once again made us wonder why Juwan Howard and Phil Martelli are not playing more drop coverage in that phase of the game. Despite strong efforts against Maryland and Indiana, it doesn't appear that Michigan's defense is close to being fixed yet. Not when you give up 80+ points and let your opponent fire at that high of a clip from the field. 

In the end, this was a missed opportunity for Michigan to gain the much-needed signature resume-building win, but by no means was this a game they were expected to win. Nor was this the last chance Michigan will have to add such a marquee win. There are still two dates with Purdue on the schedule, and a home game against Illinois, with a second game against MSU still a possibility. But next up is a matchup with a much easier foe in Nebraska. That game is on Tuesday night at 9:00 pm. There is no content after the jump. 

Comments

ERdocLSA2004

January 30th, 2022 at 2:07 PM ^

Agreed.  This was a bit of a setback but the last two weeks have been a huge step in the right direction.  We knew they weren’t ready to go into Breslin and win yet, and they didn’t.  Continue to build and learn from the loss.  Lots of season left to go and plenty of opportunities to improve.  We are really in need of some decent PG play. That would make a world of difference to this team.

HollywoodHokeHogan

January 29th, 2022 at 2:57 PM ^

Usually you see players who are bad defenders get recruited and playing time because they are good shooters.  More rare outside the 4 and 5 is a good defender playing despite being a bad shooter.
 

We’re playing the worse of both worlds and it’s fair to ask how we got a roster this malformed.

MGlobules

January 29th, 2022 at 5:35 PM ^

They played well in the first half, and have of late, as well. Fan over-reactions that reach the amazing conclusion that we suck are par for the course, but maybe not terribly insightful. I DO want to know why we are playing so poorly coming out of halftime, though, because the stat-line CBS displayed was terrifying, and we played to form today. 

HollywoodHokeHogan

January 29th, 2022 at 9:10 PM ^

Brooks, Jones, and Houstan are all around 50% efg, with Johns, Kobe, and Frankie are all under 50.  Johns (?) has probably been the best defender of that bunch. Jones, remarkably, has a decent 3pt percentage, but it’s only on 33 attempts (he’s made about as many threes as Williams), and he’s not a good defender.  


He and Zeb Jackson are the only guys over 40% from three and you can probably guess that Jackson doesn’t shoot a high volume since he’s been abducted by aliens or something.  
 

I mean, Michigan as a team is 55th in the country in 3 pt percentage and 281st in 3s made.  They are seventh in the conference by % and dead last in 3s made, so it looks like that don’t have good shooters.

TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2022 at 6:15 PM ^

eFG% isn't really a good indicator of someone being a good "shooter", unless you're suggesting guys like Kofi Cockburn, Zach Edey and Hunter Dickinson are the best shooters in the conference.

3 pt % is a better indicator of someone ability to shoot, and Michigan has good shooters (Jones is 42% from three, Eli 38%, Williams 37.5%, Houstan 37%, etc).

They're good enough such that MSU didn't double off them and went 1:1 with Hunter.  So Hunter took a whooping 24 shot equivalents (he used more than 1/3 of the possessions while he was on the court).  And that's ok!  He was efficient with those shots.

Which brings us to your next data flaw: why would you even worry about volume of threes made, especially when Michigan has played several fewer games than most teams?

Michigan has Hunter Dickinson so they (smartly) feed him and hence don't take a high volume of threes (which they hit at a good rate).

Offense is not the problem.  It's defense.

Stringer Bell

January 29th, 2022 at 3:00 PM ^

One of the worst defensive performances I've ever seen.  We made an above average MSU team look like prime Golden State Warriors.

 

Was Franz that much of a difference maker on that end?  The downgrade should not have been this steep.  They look like they have no idea what they're doing on that end.  Terrible.

bronxblue

January 29th, 2022 at 3:09 PM ^

I mean, if you're asking if the downgrade from Franz, Brown, and Livers is this steep the answer is clearly yes.

Us fans (myself included) clearly underestimated how significant a drop off it was going to be with the team losing all those contributors and guys like Johns failing to step up and Brooks clearly hitting a ceiling as a player.  

I do think the defense made some strides heading into this game and then MSU basically just shot through them.  That can happen sometimes, and we'll have to see how they look the next couple of games against Nebraska, Purdue, and PSU to determine if they can correct for some of these issues after some signs of life.

Stringer Bell

January 29th, 2022 at 3:30 PM ^

I'm talking about defensively.  Diabate and Jones are not much worse, if at all, compared to their predecessors.  So is the drop from Franz to Houstan enough to explain the drop from top 5 defense in the country to the garbage we saw today?

There's clearly something else going on.  Watching us pressure a guy like Hoggard, who has 0 jumpshot, and watching him blow by and get to the lane repeatedly makes me think Juwan has lost his fucking mind this year.

bronxblue

January 29th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^

Livers was a senior and was a really good defender and knew what he was doing on the court; Diabate is a very talented freshman but who still makes mistakes due to inexperience and exuberance.  To say he's "not much worse" than Livers here isn't a fair comparison.  And UM always had Brown who could come off the bench to help with specific defensive matchups; they have nobody on the roster who can do that now. 

The defensive gameplan wasn't great in this game but, honestly, MSU is just a a bad matchup for UM this year regardless of scheme.  People keep saying "why don't they run drop coverage like last year" but I assume Howard has not, in fact, lost his fucking mind but sees these guys in practice and knows they can't execute it properly.  It's the same reason why I tend to trust football coaches who actually watch guys in practice and know why someone is the backup and the other guy is the starter.

This team is a mediocre P5 team; they can beat the bad teams and lose to the good teams and if they get some breaks they'll slip into the tourney or if not they'll be on the outside.  Duke had mountains more talent last year and missed the tournament; every year it happens and coaches (shockingly) don't forget how to coach that year.  It sucks to be on the receiving end of a bad year but this isn't some atypical thing.

 

Stringer Bell

January 29th, 2022 at 4:01 PM ^

Why is MSU a bad matchup?  They're not very athletic, they don't have anyone who really attacks one on one.  Again, we played their guards about as poorly as possible so they were able to get to the rim repeatedly, and when we collapsed the defense we left their shooters open.  Shocking but if you leave guys like Hall, Hauser, Christie and Brown wide open they'll make shots at a good clip.  It all stemmed from our inability to stop a transfer from Northeastern and AJ frickin Hoggard from getting into the paint.  Just one of the most nonsensical defensive gameplans I've ever seen. 

LabattBlue

January 29th, 2022 at 6:22 PM ^

Hoggard excels at getting to the paint and turning the ball over, or missing lay-ups because he has a bad handles. His numbers bear that out.

He can't  shoot to save his life.

The problem is the collective defensive  IQ of this year's team.

I'm not going to start blaming the staff as these guys get paid to know scheme, this team is a ways off from consistent execution of a game plan.

 

TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2022 at 6:19 PM ^

He turns the ball over and misses layups against smart teams that play off of him and collapse on him in the paint.  Michigan tried to have Hunter Dickinson hedge him off Pick and Roll 25 feet from the basket, he promptly went around him (because Hunter can't move his feet), and then let him have uncontested layups because Houstan is afraid to/can't offer useful help.

Michigan's game plan against him was terrible.  They played tight on him and hedged screens, baffling.

bronxblue

January 29th, 2022 at 5:07 PM ^

MSU is the #2 team in the conference from 3; they just don't take a ton.  And UM's defenders are simply not all that athletic, especially Jones and Houstan, so you're limited to how aggressive you can be in terms of drop coverage.  But all year UM has shied away from that defense and I assume it's because they don't trust their defenders to be able to recover quickly enough on the perimeter.  MSU can hit that outside shot (as we saw in this game), and guys like Christie can abuse Brooks because of his size advantage.  And then things sort of snowballed when UM struggled to generate more turnovers in the second half.  And on defense MSU felt comfortable with single-covering Dickinson and Diabate, which didn't go great for them in terms of stopping either of those guys but they so thoroughly shut down everyone else that they ran out of steam.  MSU is very good defending the perimeter (#1 in 3 defense in conference), and so that's another reason why I said they're a bad matchup, as we've seen against other good perimeter defenses all year (save IU, weirdly).

Also, they did a decent job stopping Walker; he had 3 TOs and 1 assist and had 7 points.  He's a solid PG and was one of the most sought-after transfers last year.  As for Hoggard, I don't know what to tell you; he's just better than he was last year.  He's got the #2 assist rate in the country and he's been doing it to everyone he plays against. 

UM's defense wasn't great in this game, but it also hasn't been great all year.  The argument this was particularly more nonsensical than other ones this year seems driven more by the loss than some expectation that UM's season-long performance being the aberration and that Howard was going to break out a defense they clearly don't have a ton of confidence in given the current personnel. 

TrueBlue2003

January 29th, 2022 at 6:01 PM ^

This doesn't make sense though.  Hedging invites more rotation because you're doubling the ball handler and asking everyone else to rotate (including the important job of tagging the roller).

Dropping theoretically means you have the drive and the roll semi-covered by the drop defender so you don't have to be 3 on 4 elsewhere. What you're giving up is the ability for the ball handler to pull up. 

My guess is that Dickinson is failing to cover the drive and the roll on the drop so they're trying to say ok, just stop the ball handler (which he's also not been able to do) then and we'll scramble.  Or that he's defending more pick and pop shooters this year and so they don't want to drop him away from them. 

I think it's a lose-lose with him but the lesser of two evils has to be to play drop coverage, I would think.

bronxblue

January 29th, 2022 at 7:39 PM ^

But as you noted if they don't feel Dickinson can cover the driver and/or the roller properly then they can't be that aggressive defending at the perimeter and for teams like MSU that would mean even better shooting numbers in all likelihood.  Last year they could challenge teams on the perimeter because of Livers, Wagner, Brooks, and Brown were all plus defenders and could recover if necessary.  This team lacks that athleticism with Jones and Houstan, plus Brooks has regressed a bit as a defender.  And I'm not sure there's much they can do about that schematically and so Howard is likely trying to throw as much as he can out there to see what sticks.  And to be fair, his hedging worked a bit early on because it forced MSU into some bad shots and turnovers.  But MSU settled down and UM didn't have anything else especially when their shooting got even worse in the 2nd half. 

Again, I am not defending this team or the coaches completely; the players have been inconsistent and the coaching staff has made some questionable decisions, including in their schemes on offense and defense.  But I just think there's a lot of hyperbole being thrown around that Howard has forgotten how to coach and this program is doomed because they're having a down year when they replaced a bunch of experienced, NBA-level players with true freshmen and up-transfers who clearly aren't the same caliber.

TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2022 at 6:36 PM ^

Perhaps you're not sure what drop coverage is...

Drop coverage is when Hunter or the guy defending the screener drops into the paint.  It is by definition not aggressive.  It gives up jump shots to both the ball handler and the screener if he picks and pops but it attempts to defend the lane while allowing the rest of the perimeter guys to not have to tag the roller or otherwise be in 3 on 4 situations.

What I surmised was that perhaps they don't run it because Hunter can't even protect the rim even if he's dropping right into the paint.

blueboy

January 31st, 2022 at 1:51 AM ^

I mean where else is the offense going to come from? Dickinson had 36% USG against MSU and was clearly gassed in the second half. We're getting about all we can from that well.  

 

Nobody else on this roster has been able to consistently create offense this year. Devante Jones on his best day can make some things happen but he's very inconsistent and looked pretty out of his comfort zone against MSU. Eli's not that guy either and Houstan can't take guys off the bounce. Unless one of Collins/Bufkin/Williams starts to step up, I don't see a lot of better options than posting Diabate.

TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2022 at 6:44 PM ^

There's really not much anyone else can do when Hunter is in the game except to wait for kickouts.   There are no driving lanes.  Back cuts aren't open. That's why Beilein didn't guys sitting in the lane posting up Especially when Diabate is also in the game because then two defenders can park in the lane.

So Hunter needs to play fewer minutes (or he needs to pick and pop more).  34 is way too many for him especially when they're attacking him on the pick and roll every play, because like you said, he was gassed.

Michigan does fine without him.  They don't score as much (but it still does open lanes with him out like it was against Illinois when Jones scored an efficient 17 points) but they're also far better on defense such that Michigan is fine without him.

blueboy

January 31st, 2022 at 9:58 PM ^

There's really not much anyone else can do when Hunter is in the game except to wait for kickouts.   There are no driving lanes.  Back cuts aren't open.

Well that's just a pile of malarkey. You can absolutely cut without the ball. and drive with Hunter in the game. I think there are very valid arguments for and against post offense, but at the end of the day, Beilein mostly designed his offense the way he did because he didn't think he'd be able to recruit big men like Hunter Dickinson. Hunter Dickinson doesn't clog up the lane anymore than Jordan Morgan, Mitch McGary or Jon Teske did.  

Now playing 2 post guys definitely changes things, but Diabate is starting out of necessity not by design. It definitely hurts the spacing, but we don't have enough good perimeter players to justify keeping him on the bench.

If you think this is a better team without Dickinson, you're a moron.

ERdocLSA2004

January 30th, 2022 at 2:14 PM ^

The transition D was really awful.  And we aren’t talking about balls clanking off the rim right to their PG in stride the other way.  We are talking batted rebounds and loose balls that should give our guys plenty of time to get back on D yet MSU players got behind us.  Really uninspiring effort on the defensive end.

TrueBlue2003

January 29th, 2022 at 5:48 PM ^

These are great points.  It does seem startling to go from 4th defensively to 71st, but my theory is it's a combination of:

1. Yes, a HUGE downgrade from Franz who was an elite defender to Houstan who is a minus defender.

2. Brown played 50% of Michigan's minutes last year which meant Eli played a little less (and hence got more rest) and the rest of Brown's minutes have gone to Bufkin and Collins this year which are huge downgrades defensively.

3. I think opposing offenses are putting Dickinson into a lot more PnR situations than last year because it's so easy to destroy him that way.  Also, we're hedging more for some reason.  That part I don't get because he can't hedge, guys go right past him.  My guess is that's related to playing fewer paint bound bigs and more stretch bigs this year.  So they're trying to keep him higher up (with no success).  Would be curious to see how his mix of defensive possessions have changed if at all.  I suspect more post possessions last year and more PnR possessions this year.

4. I would guess that the downgrade from Livers to Diabate is bigger than we think just in terms of rotations and knowing where to be.  Diabate is a freak but I think he gets lost.  Livers was as solid as they come.

TrueBlue2003

January 29th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^

Franz, Brown and Livers.  Yes, big difference makers. 

But looking at this team, it's surprising they were that good with Dickinson at center.  He is so atrocious defensively.

It think it was to Michigan's advantage that the B1G had so many paint bound bigs that hid just how bad Dickinson is.

The announcers said it: Izzo wanted to attack him in the pick and roll and he is so bad that when he hedges, guys just go right past him.  We switched to drop (really probably have to play him in drop coverage cuz he's so bad at the perimeter that it defeats the purpose of the hedge) midway through the first half and it held up for a bit but then it looked like he got so tired he couldn't even drop and the route was on in the second half.

I would bet that 2/3 of MSUs points when Dickinson was in the game were directly attributable to him.

All that said, the turnovers were even, Michigan outrebounded MSU.  Dickinson is a load in the post.  The difference in the game was entirely that MSU made 6 more threes on fewer attempts and I would argue the quality of Michigan's three were better.  Not much you can do about that kind of three point disparity.

Never helps to tip the ball in for the other team. Duh!

HollywoodHokeHogan

January 29th, 2022 at 9:22 PM ^

You’ll overlook some of Wagner and Browns defense impact if you just compare them one to one with current roster members.  They guys didn’t always match up with their opposite position, they sometimes took the best non-center player on the other team.  So Brooks gets to switch off a stud wing unless there would be a big size problem with the switch.  Now he can’t do that, and the same for other guys on the perimeter.


 Wagner also had an NBA-level understanding of principles of help defense, which was uncanny for a player his age. Brown was a good help defender too.  All of that is gone:  Hunter often  isn’t quick enough to help, Moussa tries but he’s very young and doesn’t yet understand it well, and everyone else is totally lost.  

Mitch-igan

January 29th, 2022 at 3:03 PM ^

Anyone else getting worried about Juwan? I don’t see how we’re going to be much better with the complete lack of shooters being recruited for the class of 2022 either.

bronxblue

January 29th, 2022 at 3:36 PM ^

People keep acting like guys can't get better, especially younger players, in the offseason.  I fully expect guys like Bufkin and Houstan to get better next year, and I'm sure UM will try to get a transfer or two who can add to their shooting.  This MSU team had the nation's 98th-ranked offense per KenPom last year; this year they're 26th with most of the same parts back.  But guys got better shooting the ball and their offense improved with better guard play.  I'm more worried about the defense but that's an area where they should be better and they aren't, and I do have to wonder how they're going to handle it next year when they're likely starting another first-year PG and having to deal with the loss of Dickinson (and that presumes guys likes Diabate stick around).

TrueBlue2003

January 29th, 2022 at 3:56 PM ^

I pointed out in the preview that Michigan was up to 36.5% threes this year, better than 2018, 2019 and 2020.  They have shooters, they just had a bad day shooting (on good looks too).

They were a combined 19-29 in the previous two games which is absolutely bonkers.  Combined with this, it still evens out to 22/48 in the last three games for 46%!  It's too bad we couldn't have saved six of those threes from IU for tonight but that's the randomness of 3 point shooting. This game was basically the exact opposite of the IU game in terms of shooting.  And today's looks were generally very high quality. 

This Michigan team's problem is its defense which is abysmal.  When you allow 83 points and 1.18 ppp, you're not gonna win many games not matter how good you shoot. The offense is 21st in kenpom, a small step back from 9th last year.  The defense is 71st (!!!!), a massive step down from last years 4th.

They're going to need to shore that up in the transfer portal.  They badly need a rim protecting center that can move his feet even a little. And they could use at least one more bigger guard (assuming Bufkin makes a big leap which I think is possible, guy has a lot of potential).

Westside Wolverine

January 29th, 2022 at 6:33 PM ^

There were at least half a dozen times during which MSU got "fast break points" because the MSU gaurd blew right by Jones before the PNR was even setup. Jones also failed to recover quickly after screens. His foot speed is a problem on defense. HD's lateral speed is also a problem and both show up in iso, fast break, and PNR.

TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2022 at 7:03 PM ^

Yes, there was one of these in the first half that I charted in the UFRs (and one on which Hunter got in his way). On the bad one, he looked to be not paying attention and kind of walked over to the ball after a make instead of getting back.  It was a bad mistake and a lot of guys in the first half got burned by MSU tempo (Moussa and Hunter as well) so that was more coaching. 

I doubt there were five of these in the second half but I haven't charted it.

This is now the third year in a row that MSU has caught Michigan unprepared for tempo in their first meeting.  It was maybe (but still not) excusable in 2020 in Juwans first season (I saw not because you should still learn from tape without needing to get burned yourself), it is no longer excusable after they did it again last year and again this year.

4th phase

January 29th, 2022 at 6:28 PM ^

They shoot well when Dickinson draws doubles. Even a token, half double opens space. Today MSU didn’t double at all and so Dickinson got 25 pts. on 24 shot equivalents. That’s just not efficient enough to punish them for not doubling. Diabate wasn’t efficient either. So when you have 2 guys in the paint who are scoring decently, 36 pts combined, but not efficiently, on 35 shots, you just slowly bleed out, or you get blown out once the other team starts making every 3. 

TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2022 at 7:09 PM ^

And that's exactly why Beilein never used a paint bound big.  And the reason he never doubled Ethan Happ.

Posting Hunter means there are no driving lanes. And there are no back cuts. So you're committed to that being your offense, live or die.  Especially with Diabate out there because that gives them another defender in the paint even if Hunter is setting a screen. 

So when the opponent can keep you at 1 point per possession like Bingham did (or like Teske used to do to Happ), then you're dying.

That said, Michigan had very high quality looks against MSU, mostly because they got a lot of offensive rebounds that they could kick out.

abertain

January 29th, 2022 at 3:07 PM ^

Thank you for calling out the plan on defense as being flawed. They were a great defense last year using drop coverage and have been woeful this year when getting away from it. Now, they lost some great defensive players, but the plan to have Jones and Dickinson trying to slide their feet was awful. They need to revisit that plan.

on offense, you need 4 shooters around a big like hunter. Michigan often plays 2, brooks and Houstan. They may reach the NCAA as an 11 or something, but this has been a rough year. 

bronxblue

January 29th, 2022 at 3:37 PM ^

I said it in the game thread but this feels a bit like the 2015-2016 team wherein they'll have to get hot at the end of the year to sneak in, but they're deeply flawed and I expect there will be some staff shakeups this offseason.  But sometimes you just have an underwhelming team and there's not much you can do about it except muddle through and try to improve.

TrueBlue2003

January 29th, 2022 at 4:04 PM ^

Hunter got burned on two early PnRs while hedging and they did to go to drop coverage which helped for a bit in the second half.  I'd have to watch the second half again but it did appear that they went back to hedging but it might have just been that Hunter is so slow (and possibly gassed) that he was getting burned even while trying to drop.

But you're right, it seems like if you have to pick your poison with Hunter, you should play him drop coverage.