Michigan HockeyCast 5.22: Brushed and Flossed Comment Count

BlueBarron March 29th, 2023 at 7:00 AM

With David Nasternak and Alex Drain

This Podcast Has a Sponsor: Michigan Law Grad Jonathan Paul is the guy with the C you want skating next to the ref and pleading your case. He's also a good guy to sit next to at the hockey games.

Segment 1: A Stomp and a Snipe

  • Opener
  • Short talk about a lot of goals
  • A long talk about not many goals
  • The Crescendo

Segment 2: Michigan Takes and The Rest of the Tournament

  • Feelingsball and Hawttakes
  • Regional Rundown
  • What the Tech Coach Said
  • The Big Ten and the Future

[Player after THE JUMP]

MUSIC

  • NHL on ESPN Theme
  • "Good Feeling" -- Flo Rida
  • Ice Hockey (NES) theme

THE USUAL LINKS

 

NCAA Tournament Scores:
Michigan - 11(!!!), Colgate 1
Michigan 2 (OT), Penn State 1

Comments

Blau

March 29th, 2023 at 9:13 AM ^

Ice Hockey Video Game (1988) - Nintendo (NES) console:

I, admittedly, am not the biggest hockey guy on the planet but I just realized looking at the front page HockeyCast graphic that in the bottom right corner are 2 of the 3 players available in the always fun 1988 Nintendo Ice Hockey video game in Michigan colors. 

If I recall correctly, you have 3 choices for players:

Regular guy: Has standard speed/handling and is not prone to get knocked down easily but not the toughest guy either (Useless in my opinion).

Skinny guy: Super fast and almost uncatchable if you play a team with mostly regular or fat guys. They do get knocked down easily but the speed is undeniable and with the right amount of them, they can create chaos.

Fat guys: Welp, they're slow as hell and will make the game extremely boring but they can really only be knocked down by other fat guys. They also have some power in their shooting, so get them in front of the net and the goals will be plentiful. 

My best strategy was either 2 or 3 Fat guys and 1 or 2 Skinny guys. I would play each team as if I were in a tournament style bracket and always played the USSR last as they had 3 fat guys and a regular. The game was about as simple as sports games could be in 1988 and have fun little quirks like very cartoonish fights, a zamboni intermission and fun midi-style music.

Blue Vet

March 29th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^

I had asked on an earlier thread why college hockey seemed to be tilted against prominent schools, and got a good answer. But this discussion answers it more fully.

Do I have this right?

• it's not a big money sport so the "big" schools don't have the same sway,

• AND the sport overall is trying to replicate March Madness-like upsets,

• But with many fewer schools, the effect is to create more randomness.

Blinkin

March 29th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^

You'd also have to talk about the effect of lower pro leagues in Hockey.  The AHL/OHL/etc. effectively of flatten the talent pool of available college players, since players who are good enough for the NHL are likely to just be in the NHL.  A flatter talent pool generally benefits smaller or non-marquee programs more than heavyweights.

We see the reverse of that effect in CFB, where the talent has nowhere else to go, and that leads to reduced talent parity across the sport.

enlightenedbum

March 29th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^

Add to that the prevalence of junior hockey means that guys are coming to school at 20/21 instead of 18 so you end up with 25 year old seniors playing against 18/19 year old incredibly talented but physically weaker freshmen and you get a lot of weird results against the more talented teams recruited by the couple teams who usually get them (us, Minny, BU, BC, North Dakota).

Because of the COVID year, I think that same phenomenon happened in the basketball tournament this year.  The really experienced teams that were seeded lower had a lot of success.

lhglrkwg

March 29th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^

While the sport is DI, the vast majority of the schools are anywhere from smaller DI athletic departments (like BU, North Dakota) to DIII schools. The number of schools playing FBS football for example are a small portion of the 62 teams in D1. I count 15, and several of them would be mid-majors

  • P5 schools: 6 Big Ten teams, Notre Dame, Arizona State, Boston College, UConn(eh)
  • Mid-majors: BGSU, Miami, Western, Army, Air Force
  • And 47 schools that are small DI to DIII and hockey is their biggest sport generally. In hockey they might be bigger names, but in DI athletics broadly even the big names are relatively small fish

The number of teams that have Michigan level resources and recruiting cache across the athletic department is probably like 5. I don't think the sport is intentionally trying to replicate upsets, but I do think they're basically trying to hold the line vs big schools where they fear stuff like home site regionals will further tilt the sport toward major schools

Historically, all of the conferences have been viewed as 'power' conferences except for Atlantic Hockey and maybe the ECAC which is view as a half step down in most years. I think schools are especially afraid now that the enormous resources of the Big Ten will lead there to being a dominant conference and allowing things like home site regionals only exacerbates that

lhglrkwg

March 29th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^

Michigan is one of the oddest ducks in college hockey too because we enjoy national football and basketball success (off and on) and the enormous budget and national profile that comes with that. The only other schools that can really proclaim to have periodic national success in all 3 sports would be Wisconsin, MSU, and Notre Dame (OSU isn't there in hockey)

Even Minnesota - which is a major power in college hockey - isn't making a final four in football or basketball anytime soon. I'd guess Michigan will have the lowest percentage of their fanbase travel to Tampa just because making a final four of a sport isn't a major, major event for us like it is for most of the rest of D1 hockey. Michigan's got a baseball, two basketball, two football, and three hockey final fours in the last decade

..and zero national titles :( 

ShadowStorm33

March 29th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^

Michigan's got a baseball, two basketball, two football, and three hockey final fours in the last decade

Don't forget three softball WCWS's (including a championship game loss) and a field hockey championship game loss in the last decade, too.

..and zero national titles :( 

Don't remind me. Softball won the WCWS in summer 2005, right before I started my freshman year at U of M. I was super stoked, thought this was a great omen and the start of a great four years of athletics. And then we didn't win another team national championship until women's gymnastics won in 2021. Over that span, we lost in the championship games of hockey (2011), basketball (2013, 2018), softball (2015), baseball (2019) and field hockey (2020). 0-6 in the deciding games over that span, and 2-8 overall when considering that baseball and softball are best of three. Just gut wrenching...

EDIT: It looks like we might have won team titles men's gymnastics and/or swimming in the 2010s, but the larger point still stands (and we haven't won a national championship in a "team sport" since softball in 2005; the NCAA defines gymnastics and swimming as "individual sports")...

ex dx dy

March 29th, 2023 at 5:36 PM ^

I feel like "tilted against prominent schools" is a disingenuous way to phrase it. The question at hand is to what degree should greater resources be permitted to yield better results. It feels to you like the sport is tilted against Michigan because you're used to Michigan's resources giving the school a gigantic advantage over most other schools. The NCAA can't exactly limit Michigan's ability to use their resources to drive insanely good recruiting and facilities, so instead it opts to limit the effect of those things, thus leveling the playing field that way. Essentially, the sport doesn't want anyone to be able to just buy championships.

The reason for that is simple: you're not competing against other giant schools, you're competing against a lot of schools that are DII in every other sport. If Michigan were permitted to leverage the full power of their resources, 75% of the schools would never have a chance at another championship. A possible argument might be that those schools don't have any right to expect championships at their size anyway, and should play against similarly-sized schools. That's fair, but that would result in the vast majority of DI hockey becoming DII, and DI hockey would be reduced to maybe a dozen schools. It could maybe work, but seems like it would have a lot of potential for totally destroying fan and prospect interest in the sport at the collegiate level.

So we're at this point where we have schools like Michigan (~$200 million athletic budget) competing against someone like Lake Superior State (~$4 million athletic budget) because there just aren't enough big schools that sponsor the sport to split the competition level. To make that formula sustainable, you have to limit the impact of money and other resources on the competition level of the sport itself.

ShadowStorm33

March 29th, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^

Yeah, but some of this is just ridiculous, and simply harms the student athletes in the name of leveling the playing field. Hockey is bad enough: up to 30 players on each team can be on scholarship, but you can only give out a total of 18 scholarships, and keep in mind that 20 guys play each night, 21 if you replace your goalie. Thus not even every player on the ice can be on a full scholarship. But it's way worse for other sports. Take baseball for instance. You can have a 35 man roster, can give out scholarships to a max of 27 players, but can only give out 11.7 total scholarships.

So in the name of propping up these smaller schools, the majority of players in the non-revenue sports (i.e. not football or basketball) are limited to fractional scholarships, if they get anything at all. Keep in mind that no one is saying that you have to give out all of your allowed scholarships. At the extreme end, U-San Diego (at least when Harbaugh was coaching there) and the Ivies don't give out scholarships at all, despite being allowed by the NCAA. If smaller schools can't afford to give every player a full scholarship, they don't have to. There's nothing saying that can't continue operating in the same manner that they have been. But to prevent all schools from giving out full scholarships to their athletes simply because some can't afford it is bullshit...

lhglrkwg

March 29th, 2023 at 10:04 PM ^

Yeah I pretty much agree. To make division 1 hockey work, you have to have a general agreement amongst schools to try to keep it somewhat competitive because thats the only way division 1 hockey works. If the Big Ten wanted to bully ball it and allow for 20 full scholarships plus 6 full time coaches or whatever then it would threaten the ability for division 1 hockey to be viable because no chance is Ferris or Niagara or Merrimack keeping up with that

outsidethebox

March 29th, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^

Coach Naurato's interview, from I believe yesterday, as reported by Maize and Blue Review is outstanding material. All evidence from this season point to his walk reflecting his talk. And he acquits himself quite well in both regards. He and his staff have directed this very young team very well on this year's journey. There is a measure of luck in this game that is maddening...may the "post-gods" be with this team-and bring home an NC.

sambora114

March 30th, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^

Fantastic podcast!

Great work Alex and David. Agree Michigan is playing better down the stretch than last year’s stacked roster. Hoping for two more wins. Very excited for both semifinals 

MW147

March 30th, 2023 at 5:11 PM ^

Hey guys, I am still in the first segment, so far I am enjoying it very much!

A small point - you rightly got on the Penn State PA announcer for mis-pronouncing Portillo. So....you guys should start pronouncing Quinnipiac correctly. You are putting the accent on the 2nd syllable. It should be on the 3rd syllable. 

 

Your welcome!!! https://youtu.be/Il6wP5zj9OY