Chad Lindsay To OSU
A much-needed boost to Michigan's offensive line is apparently headed to the worst possible place:
Alabama transfer Chad Lindsay is expected to sign with Ohio State, per source. Buckeyes get new center for Braxton Miller
— Jeremy Fowler (@JFowlerCBS) April 22, 2014
Well played, Urban.
Running around in a circle is a little over the top, but only a little. That Lindsay rejected his former OC and an almost certain starting spot is alarming, and now Michigan enters next year with zero senior scholarship OL.
April 23rd, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
Nah.
Never mind.
So you admit he sabotaged RR and you're still praising him?
great here. Not like it was his recruiting that l left the OL in the shitter, just like Carr had before him. I'll take barely beating Akron over losing to Toledo any day. I'll also take occasional wins over OSU and MSU over none at all. But I guess year 6 was the year it all would have turned around for Rich.
RR is a good coach, but he performed poorly at Michigan. I think Hoke is a good coach too, and he's already performed better than RR. You don't like Hoke and that's fine, but the hyper-optimistic alternate futures you and others construct for RR are laughable. You really think RR was just going to build up a juggernaut and crush Urban Meyer's OSU and an MSU team that did beat Meyer and then Stanford? On the basis of what evidence? Certainly not his track-record at Michigan, nor his single BCS bowl victory at WVU. Just the nebulous sense that he "was trending upward", which is pretty easy to do when you start off losing 75% of your games.
you'd see he meant if RR had brought in his choice of DC in Casteel, who most people seem to think is a capable defensive guy. IF that happened, and IF Casteel had built a competent defense, THEN yes, I think you'd be pretty happy with the program. It's reasonable to assume RR's recruiting would have been better if he weren't on the hot seat from Year One on.
was not on the hot seat in year one, nor in year two. Or do you take 3-9 and 5-7 seasons as good enough that it lifts the coach off the hot seat?
Not directed specifically at you, but what is it with this alchemist logic that says we can know that which never happened? How can anyone know that Casteel does anything different with the Michigan D than actually occured? It isn't factual at all, yet supposed well educated people rant of hypotheticals as if they have provable merit.
Braxton Miller still sucks at throwing the football.
(Edit: Oriental Andrew beat me to the punch)
The overreaction here is a little ridiculous.
I think the freak out is symptomatic of all the pent up frustration we have about the football team. the last two years were complete shit. S.H.I.T. and reasonable people recognize it and are frustrated.
Being dismissive is ridiculous..
You're absolutely right.
We don't know if this kid would be good for Michigan on the field, but it would have been nice to at least have a senior with knowledge, leadership, and experience...especially a guy who played for our current offensive coordinator...and the fact that he picked OSU over Michigan is like being stabbed.
If the freak out didn't happen with absolutely every bit of football news. Even good news, people are finding ways to freak out. This reaction has become par for the course, not the sudden release of pent up frustration. That's why it's so tiring.
A 5th year grad player that could have helped didn't come here, but this isn't prime reason for some of college football's best offseason schadenfreude, and this is easily that. People are acting like the end is nigh, they're freaking out in Flander's bomb shelter about Bart's comet with Flander's whistling outside.
And where are you finding your endless fountain of tolerance for a clearly incompetent outfit? It's not because you don't football too seriously - you're obsessed with it.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I happen to not believe based off of one bad season with an extremely young OL, and a team that had things snowball on them (like how the negative feelings are snowballing on this board) is the trajectory of the program or speaks to the competence of the staff.
I wish the mods could change your user name to: TheNegativeNancy though, you schtick is tiring, but it thrives and comes out in full force in situations like this.
You are sorely mistaken if you think the certain members of the MGo community are upset because we had one crappy season. Members of the board, myself included, are upset because we have had about 5 consecutive crappy seasons with one good season mixed in. We have been getting oviscerated by our biggest rivals and our head coach cant seem to form sentences without saying "Welllllllll........."
If you are not concerned with what you are seeing, then I think we have drastically different expectations / competitive tendencies.
Also, instead of bashing the concerned, enlighten us on why we should be optimistic?
"oviscerated by our biggest rivals"
Hoke is 4-1 at home against our rivals (1 loss by one point), and 0-4 on the road. Only once has Michigan not been within 7 points in the 4th quarter and never has Michigan been down more than 7 going into half. Basically, Michigan's rivals have been good in that time, and have managed to hold serve.
"Welllll......"
He says well during speach and that has negatively affected recruiting and his ability to coach? I don't see how that's the problem. I dunno, maybe the reason Rich Rod didn't succeed was because he said "shucks". No, no, I don't think that's the reason, though people somehow approached it like it was, which is stupid.
2012 was absolutely an anomaly. The schedule was a drastic outlier in which Michigan played two teams that went undefeated during the regular season and the other way the national title. The two teams that went undefeated: they lost to by 7 points and 5 points on the road. A normal schedule sees a Michigan team that goes 9-3 at worst, and not getting the starting QB hurt may make that record even better. Are we doing this song and dance if 2012 is 9-3?
The OL was young and struggled mightily last year, every other offensive positions group was at worst above average by year's end. DL was also young, and below average, but Hoke and Co have proven they can turn around a DL very quickly.
Michigan recognized they needed to make some changes and made some changes. Need defensive approach, new OC. An OL that's just below average and is consistent at not digging a hole on first down and suddenly this team likely beats PSU, Nebraska, and Iowa. Almost did anyway. One anomaly for any position group at any school doesn't indicate to me that the whole program is going down the toilet.
Things haven't always gone well, but there is more than enough to see that Michigan isn't in a dark pit of dispair that people are making it out to be. The record is one thing, and the past two season it hasn't been a great thing, but that's only a data point. There have been other negative data points, sure, but there have been many positives that people are generally forgetting because it doesn't fit the talking point: that this team, staff, program sucks until yada, yada, yada. I'm not asking people to believe Michigan is winning a national championship next year, or even a Rose Bowl, or even the B1G (though I don't think that's completely out of the picture, it is unlikely), I'm asking people to see that things don't have to be all negative, there is a bright side, and you can believe that things can get turned around. You don't need to go out and make bets with your nearest MSU fan, but you can hope a little bit and have some belief that it will happen. Don't let having too much optimism in the past force you to go the opposite way.
People should be upset, last year wasn't fun. People should be concerned, last year was pretty bad. People shouldn't act like they're stuck under a rock and have to saw off their leg with a rusty pocket knife to even have hope for survival.
Coyote, I hear you on many of the posts above but have a hard time continuing to rationalize with myself why we are not an elite program.
At a certain point, I get tired of it all and just want to win and win big. No more excuses, no just win. At a certain point, my attitude, and the attitude of others who think like me, is a product of fatigue
Hopefully we win big this year and you can tell me to eat crow. I would hapily eat a rotten crow filled with rusty nails if that means we are going to Pasedena
EDIT: I also think its safe to say that people dont just look at Hoke's tenure when assessing the state of the program. Rich Rod's black mark still is present in the minds of many (though not sure thats the rational way to look at it)
Read his last post, that was a good one. It explains that despite how everyone remembers it, we have not been eviscerated by our rivals - this is probably the best 3-year run that ND, MSU and OSU have had at the same time, yet we're 4-5 against them, and all losses have been close but one.
Here's why you should be optimistic: All of our coaches (even moreso now with Nuss) have been successful in the past. They are not new to winning football games. We have recruited well and retained our talent (this is something we hadn't done the half a dozen or so seasons before Hoke got here). And we return the bulk of our talent from last season. These are all reasons to be optimistic.
ZERO conference championships
People around here act like we had "just one bad season"....
Because all the people that keep listing Dantonio as a better coach than Hoke, and then talking about Hoke's previous success, Dantonio at Cincinnati in the season: 7-5 (won bowl), 4-7, 7-5 (didn't coach bowl). Then the guy that followed him did much better and moved on to ND. Man, what a horrible hire he was for MSU, you would think with that track record they wouldn't have touched him...
Awful comparison. Let's examine
1) Dantonio was defensive coordinator of a team that won a NC with defense. Hoke's background was only as a position coach.
2) Michigan is Michigan. MSU is MSU, and until their post Rose Bowl raises had one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the conference. The standard for hires is not the same nor should it be given the wide gap in reach/resources.
3) 18-17 in the old Big East is still better than 46-50 in the MAC/MWC. Cinci also beat a then-undefeated Rutgers team in late November 2006. What was Hoke's signature win in the eight years he was a head coach before Michigan?
I can understand a level of negativity. But you are reaching very hard for some negativity here. You're actively trying to make things looks worse than they are. I'm not entirely sure you're not concern trolling. Because seriously...if it's THAT BAD, go root for someone else. Seriously.
I have no interest in rooting for anyone else. If Hoke proves me wrong, great. But no one should ask me to "get over" the actions of Lloyd Carr and David Brandon that set the stage for a highly questionable candidate like Hoke to get the job here. Integrity is a lot more important to me than the welfare of Michigan football and it should be to you too.
And where in that post did I reach very hard for negativity? What fact that I posted did you take issue with?
We had a crappy season and now everyone on our coaching staff is an idiot, including the new OC that just recently, according to this place, replaced THE OMG WORST, REFUSES TO THROW BUBBLE SCREENS coach in the history of mankind. Nevermind that we are finally retaining players after years of comically massive attritrition, WE NEED TRANSFERS!
April 22nd, 2014 at 11:09 PM ^
April 22nd, 2014 at 11:29 PM ^
takes no strength, courage, or intellect. Because it is far easier to look at a team, see problems, and project that as confirmation of losing. It take far greater inner fortitude to look beyond the bad for the good and see it evolving for the better. There is no emotional risk associated with declaring a cause lost. They're invested in losing and if the team loses their great wisdom is confirmed. If, however, the loser team actually manages to win they'll just mark it down as luck or an easy schedule or against an injured team. Never will they admit that the team was ever better than what they forecast.
Pessimists will never be leaders who promote positive change, and most definitely they will never be head football coaches...what would be the point?
My optimisim is taking very little effort. New OC, the line has a whole year of playing experience and a simplified offense to master befroe the fall. The defense retains most of its starters and looks to be more reliable than last year's solid-but-not-great outfit that kept Michigan in some games. That took very little effort to rattle off.
And honestly, some of the pessimism here looks like it took a lot of energy to conjure up. I'm looking at TheNema, specifically.
I get the apathy. Michigan football has been swimmig in mediocrity for awhile, it's hard not to feel a little apathetic towrds it. But I don't get the outright constant stream of pessimism. That feels like it takes more effort. Because literally every piece of football news has to be spun in a way to indicate DOOM. Por ejemplo, Hoke threw his players under the bus!!! (or...he's making changes? Isn't that a good thing?)
I am concerting some effort in this thread. And unquestionably I fall on the pessimism side of the ledger (at least here). Let me tell you why I think that's a decent fight to put up:
Do you remember the first time you heard that Brady Hoke was a candidate to become Michigan's football coach in late 2007 or even moreso (obviously) in late 2010? Very, very few people reacted well to it. Many laughed or shook their head. Fast forward to four months after his hire, and some recruiting victories had people saying "We were wrong about him!" After his first season, people said Brandon hit "a home run" on the hire. Nevermind that he had yet to face Urban Meyer, beat MSU (a program most everyone thought we'd be leaving in the dust by now for no other reason than recruiting), play any of his own recruits or deal with any adversity yet.
Through optimism and talking-yourself-into-it rationalization, people very quickly loved the hire of a man whose candidacy they initially felt was something of a cruel joke. And while he's here, gosh-darnit they'll support him. Fine. But I haven't forgotten how patently absurd his hire was (nor the behavior of power players like Carr and Brandon) and after three years, I think the the many of us who chuckled at the notion of him being the head coach here look a lot more prophetic than the precious few who thought it'd be a good idea.
(at least here)"
Was there a reason you felt the need to point that out in this situation as opposed to every other post?
I hear what you're saying. We are over-reacting. It's hard to imagine, especially before the kid has even stepped on campus, that he would make a big impact on the W/L record. This is a small issue. But, it's not like the big issues like winning games, player development, etc. are exactly going our way either. It's a negative self fulfilling prophecy. If we can't actually win games and we are forced to deal with constant frustration and disapointment we need to find something to relieve that frustration unless we simply resign ourselves to the fact that the team won't live up to our expectations....which I think some have, some go back and forth, and others still beleive it will turn around sooner rather than later. But, when people deal with constant frustration with something they are obviously emotionally invested in, sometimes a coping mechanism is to take solace that our own negative assumptions are correct. Then, at least we win at something....being right that we suck. It's dysfunctional, but is a quick relief of the frustration.
I'm not being dismissive of the frustration, but does it have to come out in floods every time something negative happens?
God damn I hate that fucking football program.
Which one?
buckeyes
While I agree with all the negative sentiment on the board, there is one potential positive: if chemistry on the line has been a problem, and the guys on the line are just now finally gelling, perhaps bringing in an unknown 5th year senior from a completely different culture would have proven to be a disruptive force. We'll never know.
Disruptive because he's sort of good and doesnt get knocked backwards when he comes off the line you mean? I could see where that type of thing would make the other fellows feel awful what with him moving forward and making everyone look bad.
My point isn't about his ability; it's about the others' willingness to accept him as the leader and anchor of the line.
didn't take it very kindly when Russel Wilson transferred in. The addition of a seasoned player at a position of need caused real chemistry issues. /s
The bottom line is, Hoke's O Line recruits have to pick themselves up off the deck and show us what they can do. The entire program is literally on their shoulders, and they have to prove themselves as a unit.
the Debbie Downers don't believe that possible, they apparently believe the OL can only be good if a mercenary comes into the system and lifts them up. If that's true, does that mean Michigan will always need a cast off from other programs to lift up the program?
April 23rd, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
maybe it's possible that he balked at the idea that he'd have to...well, compete for his position. Maybe the man you despise so much said, "Chad, we'd welcome you into our program but there are no guarantees going forward." That's a noble and honest statement, and a position that Hoke has long been known hold. It's also quite possible that Lindsay met potential team mates and his water didn't mix with their oil. You know, because the Michigan players don't think so badly of themselves as you wish they would.
Lindsay may have looked at Michigan and perhaps thought he couldn't lights-out play ahead of Glasgow. Which would mean riding the pine and missing out on his last year of playing.
Its all good, things happen like this and life goes on. For all the negativity here, I'd like to point out that a top 5 team entered the Big House last fall vs. an unranked beaten up group of youngsters and got taken to the wire. If we werent playing with a broken-footed QB I think we could have won as some sort of an option sweep QB run would have been perfect as I replay it in my mind. Urban Meijer would have probably peed his pretty white pants and I'd probably just be starting to sober up from the afterpartying (LOL). They aren't the juggernaut they might seem to be. Yes they've cleaned the floor with us for a long time in W-L. But Hoke's been a lot closer, regularly, than the late years of Carr and the tire fire of RR, and I would say 2014 OSU<2013 OSU.
All sports programs go thru periods of adversity. Its part of it. Michigan will rise again. Wait for it....
Let's just say there's no bag-men involved in his decision, I can think of only one reason why he would choose Ohio over UM: they're closer to a national champtionship. I can't say I really fault him if one final shot at another national championship was the deciding factor. Ohio and Urban still suck, of course.
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