OT: Live NCAA Tournament Thread
Michigan is the better program in the last 5 years and historically, even in the head to head matchups.
What the hell does 20 years ago have to do with anything - I am refering to the last few years and how your players and coach could never just accept a loss. The local media had the same small minded mentality - shocked that Michigan had won.
We basically played a Who's Who of College Basketball that season.
Meanwhile, 2 years in a row they are in the easiest bracket possible.
Instead of getting curbstomped by Arizona or Duke, they get to play a Virginia team that was already falling apart and a proven tournament choke artist.
This is a team that can't even beat Nebraska and loses all the time to Illinois on their home court. Probably the worst team ever in the Elite Eight.
Last year they were the 4 seed that upset #1 seed UVA in the Sweet 16 - but then ran into the buzzsaw of UConn and Napier in the E8 and lost to eventual Champion Huskies. Was that region gerry rigged for that to happen ahead of that game so a 7 seed could get to the final four?
I remember that crazy 2005 run - they played Duke, UNC and Kentucky - that KY game was Double OT iirc. they were all 1 or 2 seeds.
the Ford Field FF they beat the overall #1 Louisville that no one on earth thought they could beat, then took to Stanley Johnson and Uconn, another #1 seed in the FF, then lost to #1 UNC in the Title game. Oh, and they beat #3 Kansas before Louisville. MSU has played just about every seed combo you can in this tourney over the years. They've had a break here and there, but they've also beaten a lot of really good teams. You don't make two FFs as a 5 seed without upsets. if he gets his 7th FF as a 7 seed, it may just be his best coaching job yet. Which is a tad disconcerting bc I was under the impression they were trending downward and he was starting that retirement slide. Gonna really suck if we have to deal with another decade of this shit.
They would have kept trending downward if our guys actually stayed in school for once.
We have never had more pure talent than them since Beilein has been here.
Maybe the 2014 game @ their arena was the only game where we had the pure talent advantage.
Beilein has a couple sweeps against teams of theirs that were absolutely loaded with higher level talent.
When Zack Novak is keeping Green in check, you know Beilein is doing something right.
So yeah when our only recent non-success against them came thanks to a gutted roster of injuries and a comically stupid NCAA rulings, I can see why people are upset.
Lately they have had some very easy tournament roads opponent wise.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:12 AM ^
Also they were favored to beat Virginia so it wasn't really an upset.
Vegas had them as the team to win the title.
The irony in him mentioning two lucky runs....
Hah, you're cute. Did you and your friends spend over 20 miinutes working on that sick new name for Harbaugh?
It's been said a million times, but the fact that you had to create an account on a rival board to do whatever you think you are doing is hilarious.
As Dave from Storage Wars would say, YUUUUUUP!
MSU will get destoyed by Duke/Gonzaga. They got in a week bracket. Virginia was always a the #2 seed most likely to crash out early. Villanova was the worst 1 seed and should not have been put in with the worst 2 seed as well.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:22 AM ^
Whoever plays in that game probably Louisville will get curbstomped by the Gonzaga-Duke winner. That's why everyone keeps talking about how the East region is a complete joke.
The cure for the angst I am seeing on here from a lot of Michigan fans: move out of the state. I lived out of state for almost a decade during the Sparty's basketball height in the early 2000s.
In March you didn't get bombarded with the media and their fans like you do in Michigan. No one cared or knew much about them.
The other upside was as a State grad no one knew about Michigan State and they'd always ask me questions about my time at Michigan. Kind of like I got a Michigan degree with the lesser State level effort and requirements.
If you can't move like I did, just know it's going to be OK. You are a captive audience that doesn't represent the normal world out there.
So true. So true.
Man, there is enough butt-hurt in this thread to start a proctology clinic.
But, yeah, you guys figured it out--the fix was in for MSU. MSU got a 7th seed (AP #23, RPI 22) after finishing third in the B1G, just like Iowa got a 7th seed (AP OtherReceivingVote, RPI 43). Hollis thought by giving MSU a lowly 7th seed, he could set up the other pins in the region without the conspiracy being sniffed out. But, you guys figured it all out. Virginia, even though they were AP #6, RPI #7, they sucked donkey balls. Then, Okie, AP #13, RPI #18, were really chumps who liked fat women and cheap whisky, didn't even practice the night before because they got their pay-off.
But, that's the way it goes for MSU every year--the committee sets it up for a run. They've been doing it for 18 freakin' years in a row. Nice bunch. Try buying 'em some decent cigars and a bottle of wine once in a while. It works wonders.
Virginia was the worst 2 seed. You can't rationally argue otherwise. Villanova was the worst one seed. They should not have been put in the same bracket. Its that simple. The committee screwed up and MSU and Louisville got easy draws because of it. If you think MSU would have beaten Gonzaga or Arizona you are delusional.
That 2011 bid they got was comical.
And this year avoid Arizona and Gonzaga in the second game.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:12 AM ^
Virginia is ranked higher by consensus than Gonzaga or Kansas.
MSU probably wouldn't beat Gonzaga or Arizona. They probably shouldn't have beaten Virginia, either.
Best post in this thread!
March 28th, 2015 at 10:13 AM ^
You made both posts you idiot.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:25 AM ^
If MSU makes it to the FF this year, they will have gone through a 10 seed, a 2, 3, and a 4. That's legit. But if you compare the rankings to Kenpom and Sagarin rankings, you see that side of the bracket is kinda funky (Virginia is #4 in KenPom, but MSU, Oklahoma, and Lousivlle are all basically ranked near each other but have dramatically different seeds).
What annoys fans about MSU is that do seem to get these fortunate draws some years where they miss the tough teams for long stretches and just kind of grind out wins. It's a testament to Izzo that he can do this, but the ceiling on MSU since about 2003 is sub-elite. Every time they run into a superior team in terms of talent, they tend to be get beaten. And they get a bunch of credit for "upsets" based on seeding when perhaps they should be taken to task for underperforming during the regular season and then playing above their seed in the tournament. I mean, there is some stat that says Izzo is one of the best coaches in terms of production vs. seed in the tourney, but he's also the only "elite" coach whose teams are semi-consistently ranked outside the top 3 seeds in a region.
Anyway, all the complaining around here is coming from a couple of people, and most would agree that Izzo is a good coach who is annoying. But this MSU team, like many others, will beat a decent number of teams but is a step below the UK/Duke/Arizona/Wiscy teams, and had they gotten one of those teams earlier on they would be out.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:12 AM ^
You last sentence says it all. They avoided all the 2 seeds they had no chance
against. Meanwhile Wisconsin-Arizona is an elite 8 game rather than a final four or title game matchup. The committee f'ed up
March 28th, 2015 at 10:16 AM ^
2009 was probably the best team they've had since the 2000 championship team, and they were still waxed by UNC twice (they lost earlier in the year, on the same court, 98 to 63), and while it's definitely hard to knock them for it, they won a pretty bad Big 10 (only MSU and Purdue finished ranked if memory serves me right - that was the year Michigan snuck in at 9-9). So yes, in the 15 years since MSU won a title they had 1 very good team that got handled the two times they played and also lost a number of weird games during the year (to meh Maryland, at home to NW and PSU, in the second round of the BTT). They got hot in the tournament and had a good win over Louisville (and I believe Louisville was down a major player in that game, though that I honestly don't remember), but it wasn't an elite squad and everybody kinda knew it.
I'm not "making stuff up". Last year's Elite 8 run was very much a slew of lucky draws, and anybody who denies that is just a Michigan homer. But MSU's Elite 8 run last year was arguably even less impressive, as they beat a 13, 12, and #1 Virginia. Maybe MSU's style is just well-designed for the defense-first Cavaliers. Michigan destroyed VCU a couple years back while LOTS of schools struggle with the Havoc defense.
And this argument that Izzo wins more games as a lower seed is always brought up as some badge of honor for Izzo when, to me, it reads as an indictment of his teams' inability to play up to their potential for seasons. I mean, his contemporaries like Coach K, Pitino, Calipari, Calhoun, Williams all have as many or more championships and tend to have higher-ranked teams going into the tourney. So yeah, when Duke, UNC, UK, Kansas, etc. are being seeded highly, it is harder for them to pull upsets. MSU, by comparison, has only be ranked in the top 4 of a region 6 times in the past 15 years. So while it's great that his teams play well for two weekends in March, it comes at the expense of gacking away games during the regular season.
March 28th, 2015 at 12:19 PM ^
winning 3 games in the NCAA tournament is an accomplishment, no matter who you face.
So credit to Izzo, who everyone knows is a good coach, just a whiny little prick without an ounce of grace in any of his wee little fingers. And a guy who benefits from bringing everything from mid 4*s to solid 5*s along very slowly (while our 3 and 4*s get developed so quickly they early entry and get drafted).
Your point about how they underperform - certainly based on the star aggregate on that bench - in the seeds they achieve, only to find water level in the tournament seems a fair one. That said, it's still very hard to make any kind of run in the tournament. Sixty other good teams couldn't.
or are there only teams/coaches left that i despise
March 28th, 2015 at 10:18 AM ^
March 28th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^
March 28th, 2015 at 11:18 AM ^
March 28th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^
...but for me the metrics that matter are wins on the court, championships, and graduation rates. To read some posts on this board you'd think that there was an alternate national championship awarded on the basis of what might have been except for injuries, players gone to the nba, auspicious seeding and bad calls. Being close to winning is good, but winning is better, and it is a silly thing to knock on a college basketball coach for recruiting and coaching good four year college players and having limited success at creating pros - I don't think that is really part of the job.
Credit to Izzo for maintaining a consistent, quality program, and Coach Beilein for the beginnings of one, conjured out of pocket lint that appears that it may have a higher ceiling.