WTKA Roundtable 11/4/2021: The Voice of the Jackal
Things discussed:
- How did they lose that game?
- The 4th down over-discussed. No doubt it was PI(x2) so there’s really no argument.
- Cade’s Day: wasn’t just great but great under pressure: 350 of Michigan’s passing yards were on passing downs or clock situations.
- McCarthy in the redzone? We’re still in favor.
- Someone should tell Macdonald that the spotting rules are different in college—you don’t have time to substitute! Third one was the most boggling because it was late in the game and they had been burned twice.
- Defensive breakdowns: DTs getting out of their lanes, and they’re not the starters. Hawkins and Moten both missed chances to stop long TD runs.
- Run game issues: 90% of them were Jacob Slade, the best DT we’ve faced this year.
- MSU brought safeties down but that didn’t explain a lot of the passing game, since those yards were on passing downs.
- Andrel Anthony: I got to make a comp to all the Ones. Denard-like debut.
- The overturned TD over-discussed. No reasonable person trying to officiate that game fairly overturns that, which means the Big Ten has a problem. Other officiating things—it was VERY one-sided, to the point where I couldn’t do the normal refs- stuff in UFR. Seth: The overturned TD isn’t a controversy; it’s a fact. That this game was a case example of officiating changing the result isn’t a controversy; it’s a fact. Proposed solution is to get professional referees.
- Kenneth Walker nearly got the Worst Rule in Sports on him.
- One call they missed against Michigan: Morris put Kenneth Walker in a choke hold, should be suspended for it.
- Indiana thoughts, Boiler up!
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment two is available here. And you can watch the video here:
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- What's with the theme music?
Coaches are professionals who do this 100+ hours a week. Players are professionals who do this 100+ hours a week. We’re professionals who do this 100+ hours a week. Why do we have officials, who are part of the game, just doing it on the weekend?
November 4th, 2021 at 4:00 PM ^
Hey Warde,
Well, not going to bat for your head coach when he has legitimate grievances with officiating would be the first issue.
A public statement about how poor the officiating was and needs to be improved would be a start.
Not backing up Harbaugh's commentary after the 2016 OSU game publicly would be another example of bowing to your B1G overlords.
When there's a scandal or perceived injustice for OSU in their games, their AD and even president line up to support the coach(on social media, in local press, etc)...and I guess that's just the difference - they are aligned and let the B1G know it. The push for every edge and advantage possible, starting at the top. This is why any head coach in the country would be incredibly lucky to go work there...knowing your employer has your back.
Harbaugh is left on an island and has to choose his words carefully in every press conference (specifically since post OSU 2016). The way he kept his composure after Saturday's loss was admirable...most would have lost their mind after such a 1-sided officiated game....but I guess the university has done a good job of shoving a muzzle on him so he can be "a dignified Michigan Man" and lose with honor....even after a total screw job.
So yeah Ward, speak the fuck up. Congrats on the big salary and UM crushing it (financially) in big revenue sports, but would be nice if you were actually an advocate for the players and coaches working their asses off to bring in all that money and simply wanting a fair shake in the big games.
November 4th, 2021 at 4:45 PM ^
again.
you have no idea if warde manuel is "going to bat" for the football team. none. the fact that he's not yapping into a microphone about it doesn't mean shit.
November 4th, 2021 at 9:33 PM ^
If we assume he is, he’s done a shit job the past 6 years.
1) So either he isn’t (which he is not publicly)
2) Or he is (privately perhaps), which clearly isn’t working.
Either way, cuck
November 4th, 2021 at 12:22 PM ^
So I feel compelled to talk about the refs for a moment. I'm 46 years old, attended Michigan for my engineering degree from 93-97, have had season tickets in the family since 1980, met my wife there, had a sister and two brother-in-laws go there, and now have a son applying there. Historically I've been really emotional about bad refs. I have mellowed the past few years to the point where I try not to focus on bad refs too much and my rational brain wins most of the time with statements like.....
- "Don't assume malicious intent when basic stupidity or bad performance is more likely the cause."
- "All teams think the refs are one-sided so you're just a homer fan thinking Michigan got screwed."
- "Michigan should have done more to ensure the refs don't decide the game."
But I'm struggling. The past several years have been insanely one-sided against Michigan. There have been some games that were fair and even. There maybe was the one Northwestern game with the last second FG where we got some calls in our favor. (And I remember the old Anthony Thomas game against Illinois where the refs helped us.) But can anyone seriously remember a time where we felt a big game against a tough opponent went our way? Or was even fairly officiated?
- PSU in 2019 was horribly one sided against us
- MSU on almost every occasion has been skewed their way...even sometimes when we win.
- OSU hasn't been close that often, but we know how 2015 and 2016 went (not to mention 2006).
- We lost the Iowa game that year with the weird punter penalties
On Sunday after this recent loss I saw my neighbor, who is a die-hard Notre Dame fan. The first thing he says to me unprompted was "I can't believe how badly the refs screwed Michigan."
I still think it is incompetence more than conspiracy.....but it is hard to live through this period of Michigan football when we're so close to where we want to be as a program and know that a large percentage of Harbaugh's frustrating losses included a horribly one-sided whistle and that a 50/50 whistle probably flips a couple of those games.
I think professional full-time refs is a good step - but I think they need accountability. I think the MLB has mostly improved their umps from the fact that every decision they make is now reviewed and rated publicly.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:29 PM ^
Yeah, I am not really a conspiracy person but at the same time there is no doubt UM has faced an inordinate amount of big games under Harbaugh where officiating has made a large negative impact. I mean people do forget a retired Big Ten official admitted last year he had bias against certain coaches, Harbaugh being one of them and that it may have impacted how he called games. I mean if the Big Ten officials are still holding some kind of grudge against Harbaugh or something because he used to rip into them hard, they need to grow the fuck up honestly.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
I'm starting to think Warde needs to put full institutional pressure on this with the league office (and I haven't thought this before, honestly). I mean, the perception is Harbaugh can't beat his rivals. And there is obviously truth in that. Obviously. But at least 3 of his losses to MSU and OSU were close games where refs played a large impact on the outcome, and where the bias was clearly against Michigan each time. To expect Michigan to beat the rivals and the refs in a close rivalry game every single time is simply not fair, especially when both teams are relative equals on the field and in the polls.
Even a game like Nebraska this year, where Husker fans think they got screwed by the refs, featured several bad calls/noncalls in the 2nd half that favored Nebraska. The incompetence in that game was at least spread fairly evenly to both teams.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:49 PM ^
Eh, I would actually disagree with the Nebraska thing. Michigan had 17 points potentially negatively impacted in that game. Should have been either a false start or offsides on Cade's INT, illegal formation on Nebraska's td and UM also had their second to last drive ended for only a field goal because of a false start caused by Nebraska's illlegal clapping. On the other side you have a PI that Nebraska wants to bitch about where the DB did in fact impede the WR and allowing the play to go on with Martinez on the fumble in a similar manner they had done all night. Even in that game UM was more negatively impacted by the officiating, I don't think the bad officiating was as evenly distributed as Nebraska fans like to think it was.
November 4th, 2021 at 1:11 PM ^
I don't disagree actually. My point is that even in games where it's perceived (by some) to favor Michigan...it's not.
The only reason I didn't say that is because as a casual observer I couldn't tell live that Michigan got hosed as much as it did in the 2nd half (although I did get the feeling Nebraska got away with a couple of things).
That's what make games like MSU so much worse, because the bias is on full display to even the casual observer.
November 4th, 2021 at 1:29 PM ^
Gotcha, definitely agree
November 4th, 2021 at 1:29 PM ^
Gotcha, definitely agree.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:48 PM ^
Outside of its large fanbase, Michigan has to be one of the most hated teams in the country if not the most and you have to believe that seeps into the officiating. You have to ask yourself why is Michigan is so hated.
November 4th, 2021 at 1:07 PM ^
You would think after 20+ years of not winning shit and OSU winning everything, they would start to get some of these BS calls....I don't get anything, and don't know shit about fuck
November 4th, 2021 at 2:37 PM ^
Exactly....how hated can we be after the last 15 years? Oooh.....Harbaugh yelled at them for a couple of years....as if Saban and every other big time coach doesn't do the same thing.
While I don't believe in a deliberate conspiracy, I do believe in rational behavior and never being on the opposite side of a refshow is a statistical improbability. Not to mention that this also can't entirely be explained by the refs being influenced by the home crowd....
I would LOVE to have a conversation with a rival after a win and say "yeah.....I think those refs helped us out more than you guys.....sorry.". Never happened. Ever.
Hell, in this game I haven't even yet seen a call go in our favor. I am not yet buying the choke hold call yet until I see a replay.
November 4th, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
I had the same comment from a fan of a different school. Along the same lines, I had an MSU fan tell me, unprompted, that "I suppose the Michigan people are gonna blame the refs" which tells me the thought crossed their minds as a possible reason for the close win.
November 4th, 2021 at 3:32 PM ^
I agree transparency would help. Make the reviews of official's performance public. Make the league office have to face media questions regarding how a game was reffed.
Also, there should be a system where teams have say in who refs their games. Like selecting a jury, where you could reject certain crews. If a crew is consistently rejected by multiple teams, that crew gets addressed (either by more training or getting rid of the weakest link(s)).
November 4th, 2021 at 12:59 PM ^
Thanks for the summation and post. 4 game season, steel in the spine as a UM head coach once said. Winning out is the only path forward now. I see better than I hear. Go Blue! Support the team
November 4th, 2021 at 1:54 PM ^
The consensus for the IU game is that M will play angry and win this game easily. But the IU coaching staff is good, and there is now plenty of film on how to exploit our weaknesses, and at the same time we haven't shown an ability to do anything different than what we always do. I see this game as much closer and more uncomfortable than we'd all like to see.
November 4th, 2021 at 1:57 PM ^
Nah, don't see it. Freshmen QB against UM's pass rush behind a porous oline is not a good recipe for Indiana. Particularly if Cade and the passing game carry what they did last week forward. Emergence of Anthony is huge for the passing game.
November 4th, 2021 at 2:02 PM ^
I just don't understand how deaf the staff and players were to the obvious plan by MSU to exploit the substitution issue. Even Jack who supposedly reads this blog.... doesn't tip Jim off AT THE VERY LEAST ? and even Hutchinson. Only makes comments AFTER game that they need to leave players on field ? Didn't he see that a month ago and as captain bring it up ? Mind blowing. All of it.
At the time I actually thought of faxing Schembechler Hall to tell them the obvious,that they better fix the sub thing because it'll be exploited. I wish I did now. Because somehow the entire program couldn't see it yet every observant fan could. Forgot what game it was when the DL was jumping around.
Maybe we should nominate someone on the blog as the liaison with the coaches, just to give SOME feedback on what their rivals will plan. Normally I'd say that's ridiculous, but apparently it is needed.
November 4th, 2021 at 2:36 PM ^
Yea after the first time that happened and the defense was off the field after that series, the coaches and players needed to make a change to not allow that to happen. Not one more goddamn time. I understand changing a whole game plan in-game and even within one half is a big deal and not a doable thing. But the entire defensive game plan couldn't have hinged on subbing Dline played willy nilly. I understand doing so and of course it has its benefit. But to not be able to scrap that concept?! This is the shit we watch and get so frustrated about. Basic elements of the game where the opposing sideline make ours look like fools. And over simple shit like tempo? Good grief.
November 4th, 2021 at 3:24 PM ^
This would be amazing...
"Mr. Harbaugh? Yeah, we just got an email from someone calling themselves "Mr. Obvious from MGoBlog".
Heiko would have been the obvious person to fill this role.
November 4th, 2021 at 2:04 PM ^
I couldn't disagree more about JJ being the red zone QB. We've used him in the red zone and it's not a net benefit.
On the second FG drive after the Anthony hold made it 1st and 13 we put JJ in for two meh running plays on passing downs and then trotted Cade back out for 3rd and 8. That's lighting downs on fire and it's happened all season. It would be interesting to see a chart of all the JJ red zone plays and I guarantee it's not all that impressive (and the pass play was a good one against MSU but at that point, I'd rather have Cade making that decision and throw anyway).
JJ between the 20s works because there's a chance of catching the defense into the thinking it's still Cade and hence they're less keyed on the run or the chance the QB will give but that doesn't happen in the red zone with a compressed field.
So leave Cade in and pass more. That's the solution to the red zone. Especially now that you have a legit playmaker in Anthony that can you can just toss it up to.
November 4th, 2021 at 2:50 PM ^
I would go the other way. Bring JJ in (anywhere on the field) and let him cook for at least a set of downs. Obviously after he fumbled the ball (and it went out of bounds), he was properly taken out.
But JJ's TD throw to Anthony was not one we have really seen from Cade. It was dope. I want to see that more.
November 4th, 2021 at 3:56 PM ^
Eh, it was nice throw but we've def seen Cade make those throws, multiple that were a lot more difficult in this game. What we haven't seen is WRs making plays like that, and that's why Anthony raises the ceiling quite a bit on this passing game.
November 4th, 2021 at 5:18 PM ^
Regardless of who the QB is, just throwing the ball in the red zone seems to be a much more effective solution. It was, in fact, more effective in the game we're talking about.
November 5th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
JJ's backward scrambling looks great against WMU and Northwestern but it's going to get us killed against more athletic defenses.
November 4th, 2021 at 2:28 PM ^
The real question is will Brian write a preview for this game??
November 4th, 2021 at 4:16 PM ^
Brian has switched over to basketball. He even got a migraine thinking about the rest of the football season. I feel sorry for him, my Sister got migraine quite often, especially when she was under stress.
November 4th, 2021 at 4:13 PM ^
If Michigan can beat OSU, it will be a most excellent season!
November 4th, 2021 at 4:18 PM ^
If Cade's knee is sore, it might be best to start JJ in this game. It will be the easiest team we face here down the stretch.
November 5th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
"Hinton is gonna make the play but he's tackled from behind" I was in the stadium screaming that, and no one but Craig mentioned it until now.
Let's assume we all are too biased to notice the bad calls that went in our favor this game (though I think Michigan fans readily admit we got a lucky PI call vs Nebraska/we have decent perspective).
My issue is every one of those horrible screw job calls came at precisely the highest leverage moments. Exactly like 2016 in Columbus.
I hope it all evens out in my children's lifetime, because I'm running out of years.
And I can't help but wonder if the refs still pass down their hatred of M from when Bo was merciless to Delaney, just like Staee and O$U pass down their hatred from senior to freshman, into eternity...
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