December 30th, 2020 at 12:24 PM ^
This packer fan approves of this move, although I would prefer another half decade of quinntricia.
(Please don't hire Saleh, that is 100% the move regardless of GM)
December 30th, 2020 at 1:00 PM ^
Sorry but it’s not, the game is slowly transforming to offensive minds. Name me one great young defensive coach who is a now a great HC? Eric Bieniemy is the guy, Hc with offensive backgrounds will call plays, HC with defensive backgrounds don’t call plays.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^
Bieniemy doesn’t even call plays as an OC.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:11 PM ^
Matt LaFluer never called plays before the GB HC gig, nor did Judge for NYG, but you’re wrong about Beiniemy
December 30th, 2020 at 1:20 PM ^
I doubt Matt LaFluer calls the plays now
December 30th, 2020 at 1:08 PM ^
Vrabel seems to be doing alright.
The game has definitely titled towards the offensive side of the ball & Eric would be my #1 choice but this notion that a good HC has to specialize in offense is a fallacy.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
It’s not the law, but your chances of striking gold are a lot higher with a young offensive mind
December 30th, 2020 at 1:59 PM ^
What do you consider young? Other than Belichick, we have Andy Reid, Doug Pederson, Gary Kubiak, and Pete Carroll. Not a lot of great young offensive minded coaches in that mix.
December 30th, 2020 at 2:14 PM ^
Of the “up & coming” young nfl coaches I’d agree that those who specialize on Offense have had greater success than the others.
Still think there are far more important things when being a great leader/coach than which side of the ball your background is in.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^
Titled...?
December 30th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
Tilted..
+1
December 30th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
@We Are Back
Brian Flores.
You're Welcome.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:13 PM ^
You’re going with a guy who has a 15-16 coaching record? Okay...
December 30th, 2020 at 1:31 PM ^
And playing above expectations for two straight seasons. They were supposed to tank but won 6 games last season. They're knocking the door for the playoff after being projected to finish last in AFCE. Flores is the real deal and has Miami playing ahead of schedule plus they have a top 5 pick thanks to Houston trade.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:41 PM ^
yep, the guy who will win the NFL Coach of the Year in his 2nd season as a head coach.
December 30th, 2020 at 3:24 PM ^
Vrabel. Although I'm not sure why age would matter.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
Vrabel comes to mind if you can look beyond last weekend. Rhule also had defensive experience earlier in his career and has delegated play calling to Joe Brady.
I won't argue against the Lions passing on the local guy who just beat a playoff team down several starters and who knows Lafleur's tendencies better than anyone. You do you.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^
I’ll give you vrabel, The jury is still out on Rhule
December 30th, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^
Mike Tomlin
December 30th, 2020 at 12:25 PM ^
Lions will sink the boat
December 30th, 2020 at 12:26 PM ^
Lions fans: we have a BOAT? capital
December 30th, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^
can we trade it for draft picks?
December 30th, 2020 at 12:27 PM ^
Why would he go to the NFL? His act wouldn't work there.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
If he wins, it will.
Its a funny thing. Winning has a way of shutting everyone up. Of silencing all the critics and getting everyone in single file, ready to tow the company line. I'm sure Bill Belichek and Nick Saban both have the personality of a plain baked potato, no fixins, but they win. So that's why guys want to line up and play for them.
If putting up with you means I get a ring and a trophy, I'll find a way to deal with it.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
I tend to agree that Fleck is an ideal college coach and not a good fit in the NFL. He's young enough and has enough energy that maybe he could put it together at the next level, but doesn't seem worth the risk to find out. Most NFL coaches don't last long and there arent a lot of rah-rah guys that make it work. Pete Carroll being a big exception.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:02 PM ^
He reminds me of Sean McVay and he's doing OK. Having said that, I don't like Fleck, and I'm not convinced he is a good coach. Give it a little more time.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:16 PM ^
McVay is more in the Andy Reid vein of play designer/detail oriented guy. Fleck is in the vein of culture-setter/rah rah, closer to Carroll
December 30th, 2020 at 2:17 PM ^
I didn't say anything about his coaching qualifications or philosophy. If you know anything about McVay, he is a rah rah, culture, encouraging type of guy. That's how he got the most out of Jared Goff. Go watch the 1st season of Hard Knocks that he was there. Both smaller stature guys, with a ton of energy. I don't think much of Fleck as a coach.
December 30th, 2020 at 4:58 PM ^
Carroll has a pretty fair defensive mind.
December 30th, 2020 at 3:21 PM ^
What leaves you unconvinced? Is it the lack of sustained success?
My instincts tell me he is a douche-bag human. However, as a coach it is hard not to like the results.
He took Western Michigan to an AP Top 15 end of season ranking in Year 4. I'll say that again...Western Michigan. He won their first MAC in nearly 30 years. He has their only bowl win. He put a number of guys in the NFL. He had college gameday in Kalamazoo, Michigan late in the season. There is little doubt if he stayed he would have run rough-shod over the MAC and continued to recruit above WMU's standing.
He took Minnesota to an AP Top 10 end of season ranking in Year 3. He has their only 11 win season in school history. He is seven games over .500 at Minnesota. Other than Glen Mason you have to go back to the 50's for this type of record. Hell...Lou Holtz was under .500 at Minnesota.
He doesn't have two decades of tape. However, at two places it is hard to win he put them on the national stage (quickly) and his teams have largely improved in record each year. I don't hold a 3-4 Corona record against him...particularly with how hard they were hit.
I have no idea if his style would translate to the NFL. However, at the college level his stock should be VERY high IMHO.
December 30th, 2020 at 3:41 PM ^
Well Jerry Kill agrees with us about him being a douche bag.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/2/19/18232701/jerry-kill-pj-fleck
December 30th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^
I agree with your assessment of Fleck; his style of coaching and leadership seem to best be suited to the college realm. I also don't believe his track record is all that impressive. Aside from two 'magical-type' seasons at both his HC gigs, his record is underwhelming.
Fleck honestly reminds me quite a bit of Dan Quinn. A "players coach" who can motivate and get the most out of his guys, is well liked by the organization/administration, and seems to have adequate Xs and Os knowledge. However, as a Falcons fan I will tell you to BEWARE of any coach with a whiff of that reputation.
Also, I disagree that Carroll is solely a 'rah-rah' guy. He's been known as a pretty good defensive-mind throughout his career; not an innovator but certainly with the chops to be successful (like most of his tenure in Seattle).
December 30th, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^
He was the Bucs WR coach prior to getting the Western job. He actually does have a few years of NFL experience.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
Why not go to the NFL if you're him? The money is good, it's a new challenge, and no one in college football will hold it against you if you fail.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:29 PM ^
The boat needs to be floated first as it's currently sitting at the bottom of the Detroit River.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:29 PM ^
The Lions could hire Bill Belichek, have the '07 Pats offense and the '85 Bears defense all put on Lions uniforms, and they'd still find a way to go 6-10.
They are what they are until the Fords are no longer associated with the team. And I don't see the Fords having any incentive to sell the team so.......yeah.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
Well yeah.......the players would be kind of old wouldn't they.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:30 PM ^
No way pros put up with Fleck's nonsense. Some coaches are college guys. Fleck is one of them.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:13 PM ^
I'm going to make a few assumptions.
Fleck's success isn't due to his schtick. He's a good coach.
He has some ability to read a room and adapt without having to completely change his personality.
We're not the only people talking about this. Any team that hires him, even the Lions, is going to want to hear how Fleck plans to adapt his approach when coaching pros.
As a counter example, is any college coach more like Bill Belichick than Nick Saban? From the outside, he seems to run his program like a pro coach. But he flopped in the NFL, and has won big everywhere he's been in college, not just due to having more talent like he does now.
December 30th, 2020 at 2:05 PM ^
Agree with this.
I think Fleck's coaching style actually translates well to today's NFL. I'm not talking about the "Row the Boat" marketing fluff, but just from my observations he is a high energy motivator, not an X's and O's coach. He hires coordinators to do that.
He builds a strong rapport with his players in the locker room. His guys are inspired to play hard for him. He's not overly stubborn, he is willing to do what works. He has a high enough football IQ to follow the trends of the game and he seems to be a pretty good identifier of talent (sent 11 players to the NFL from Western Michigan in 4 years and 7 Gophers in 3 years).
He wouldn't be my first choice necessarily, but I think he could do well in the NFL.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
Oh, that stuff will play well in the pros.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
The image in my head is of Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly from Step Brothers doing the video for boats and hoes and then crashing the boat.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
Struggling to name any successful college coach, with zero NFL experience, making the jump to the NFL and having success. They are basically two completely different games at this point.
And you can't cite Harbaugh. He was a successful QB in the league for a long time and was also an NFL assistant.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
i think Jimmy Johnson is the only one...he was quite successful mind you.
he had a very impressive college resume though, much higher than Fleck
December 30th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^
and it didn't hurt to have a team full of HOF members when he was dallas coach - aiken, e. smith, k. norton, m. irvin, larry allen, c. haley, etc.
December 30th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
Kliff Kingsbury seems to be headed in the right direction, but it's probably too soon to say one way or the other.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:00 PM ^
Is Kliff even that good? Texas Tech isn't an easy place to win at but the only time he won 8 games was his first season. I've never seen a guy get fired from one job and then get a higher level job
December 30th, 2020 at 12:42 PM ^
Fleck has both played and coached in the nfl
December 30th, 2020 at 12:42 PM ^
PJ Fleck actually does have NFL experience. He was Tampa's WR coach prior to getting hired at Western.
Not saying I think he would make a great NFL coach, just noting he does have experience on an NFL sideline.
December 30th, 2020 at 1:37 PM ^
You realize that Fleck has coached in the NFL?