OT: Plans Unveiled for Wings New Arena
According to Freep and Detroit News sources, Illitch Holdings met with the DDA this afternoon and a tentative deal has been reached for an 18,000 seat multi-purpose event center. The arena would be located kitty corner from Comerica Park.
It's still very early in the project, so no word yet on the future of JLA. Illitch Holdings hopes to get the deal finialized by the end of the year.
More here
I don't think anyone has a problem with the facility being built. They have a problem with the city using public dollars to subsidize it's construction. Now, there's no way to know for certain that it won't be a net positive, but the consensus among economists (based on decades of research) is that sports arenas typically do not lead to enough economic development to yield a net positive ROI.
Furthermore, there's something really disgusting about billionaires threatening to move to the suburbs (or out of state) if they don't receive subsidies for their profitable business. That's crazy. They sell tickets to people for money; they're not running a charity and shouldn't receive a dime of public funds. I'm not accusing Illitch of making any threats but I think it's ridiculous that this is even being considered.
Is this serious? People actually think like this??
The Joe is a dump, glad this new arena is going to happen. Bathrooms are terrible, concourse is tiny, lacks amenities, the list goes on and on.
Don't like the public funding but that's pretty close to standard in these days.
Well, his colleagues are professional athletes, so it makes sense.
Well I'm glad a bankrupt city is spending $300 million to make sure hockey fans have access to nice bathrooms.
Seems like a good investment when 47% of the city's residents are illiterate: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/07/detroit-illiteracy-nearly-half-education_n_858307.html
And only 25% of HS freshman will graduate: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11601692
At least there are cheap homes, since the average price of a home in Detroit? $7,500: http://www.couriermail.com.au/realestate/homes-for-1/story-fnczc1bg-1226559204461
Though no one seems to want to live in the city: http://www.freep.com/article/20130214/NEWS01/130214044/Bing-unveils-Pulte-partnership-to-tear-down-abandoned-homes-buildings
Probably because it's the second most dangerous city in the US and getting worse: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/detroit-murder-rate-2012_n_2388862.html
Which isn't going to help the fact that the city is insolvent: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22514588
And is currently DEFAULTING on debts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22914431
I challenge anyone to read this simple Wikipedia article and say that a new hockey arena is the best way to spend $300 million: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit
Hell, who is going to loan them any money and at what rate?
Keep on trolling, you magnificent 15 year old boy.
By the way, you have very nice googling skills! You earn an mgogoldstar today!
Detroit is a joke. I don't know why anyone would choose to live in that shithole. You know how most cities have a few areas of 10X10 block areas that are no-go areas? Detroit has ONE 10X10 area that you can walk around in. With a cop every 20 feet. It's a joke and I feel terrible for anyone forced to live in that dump. If you all are honestly supporting this idiotic decision, you deserve more of the same. Keep that population dropping 20% every half decade. Elect corrupt officials. Honestly, Detroit is East St. Louis on a massive scale... the entire city is shittier than the bad areas of most cities. If you can't realize that you haven't seen what a normal city looks like.
You are just a treasure to this community.
My family was once in business with Illitch. The man is all about personal gain. He isn't Jay Gould but his business ethics are definitely in question. The man lives to make a profit.
Honestly, I'm sorry to be an asshole about the situation, but I feel as though it is warranted. The only question that should be posed in while Detroit is this the financial situation is whether this is the best way to spend the limit resources the city has at its "disposal" right now. I think, and I would hope that many others would think this way as well, that there are MANY more dire and pressing issues the city needs to address before providing a new arena (with "planned" extras) to a team which isn't hurting. Has attendance been impacted at all by the supposed problems with the Joe? No.
If anyone can give any statistics or evidence that shows that Detroit (the Wings) NEED a new arena, I'd love to see it and if the reasoning was compelling, I could change my mind. So far, nothing has proven to me that a new arena is a more worthwhile investment than putting the money towards social services, the police, education, or anything that would serve the residents of Detroit. Point me to a Rust Belt town that has been rejuvinated by stadium projects and I will certainly consider this project as a good move.
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but this stuff is literally the curriculum for Professor Needs A Raise, Mark Rosentraub.
I saw Frank Sinatra in concert at the Joe back in 1981. The man was a master showman.
Nights there isn't a wings or tigers game the city shuts down. If the pistons are in the new arena the. You have 4-5 nights a week there are sporting events with other nights having other events. This means people will be in the area more than once or twice a week. Bars and restaurants can be staffed full time along with stores and other office space.
This complex would link downtown to midtown, especially with the light rail
The studies cited above can be thrown out if you get the pistons involved
Try finding a quality place to live in downtown or midtown. Occupancy rates are at 100% and new buildings are going up/ planned. The amount if people that have moved into the core if the city is what gets this place turned around.
What excites me the most about this project is the link it will provide between Midtown and Downtown. And when you look at that footprint, it's going to do wonders for the neighborhood around the Masonic Temple, which has been needing a boost like this for decades. I'm especially heartened that George Jackson seemed so careful to emphasize the fact that this will be an urban development, not a suburban campus. No arena set in the middle of a sea of parking lots. They want filled space and connetivity with what's around it. That's a huge step in the right direction for a guy who has singlehandedly helped Ilitch Holdings do the exact opposite on the other side of the freeway for 15 years.
Really, if you set aside the arguments about where the money is coming from and just look at what this proposal says it will do in terms of renovations and new building infill alone, there's a lot to be cautiously optimistic about. We'll see if Olympia follows through on their promises here, but I like what I'm hearing so far.
DDA could still do everything but the stadium to create that link. If the DDA was funding the office space, apts, retail space, and the team was 100% funding the stadium, there would be no quarrel. It's the mixing of funds that's the issue.
Seriously, if the press release headline was "Illitches to fully fund new stadium", and the DDA was funding the rest, the response would be GLOWING. But since instead the DDA is being used for a billionaire to pay less for a stadium in order to charge the average fan MORE to attend the game, not so much.
I'm not sure why a hockey arena needs to be the linchpin of all that development anyway. People, by and large, don't like living by sports stadiums because of all the noise and traffic they generate. If you put three of them right next to each other, you're asking residents to put up with an awful lot of noise and traffic over the course of the year. There's also the question of where people are going to park and tailgate if this arena takes up a lot of that space.
According to the presser today, the plan is to include a parking structure in the complex, not surface lots. Which, when added to the already-ample stadium parking within walking distance of the arena site, is probably more than sufficient for everything.
Honestly, I don't know how you can complain about replacing surface lots with buildings, considering how much of the Central Business District is parking and vacant lots as it is. If you can fill some space rather than sustain extant surface lot parking, and replace those spaces with a structure, it's a no-brainer.
I would think so too, but as I mentioned above, it has worked in some cities. The area around the Caps/Wizards arena in DC was kind of dumpy, but is now filled with restaurants/condos/etc. Granted, that's DC, where space is limited, and there's no guarantee it will work in Detroit, but it might. At least it's better than just the stadium alone like when Comerica/Ford Field were done. Also, I think the redevelopment of the JLA space could be really cool if done right.
Totally get the "this money could be better used for city services" argument, and that's probably true, but based on past actions, that doesn't seem like it would have happened either way, so this (in my mind) is better than nothing.
how this development (providing the pistons are lured) is the key to making the whole area work all week long.
There's the problem. How are they going to lure the Pistons, when the Pistons' owner owns the Palace? He can't possibly get a better deal in the new building. Owning the Palace means that he effectively pays zero rent and keeps 100% of the arena's revenues. In this new arena he'd get no more than 50% of the revenue, and probably less. Not to mention that pulling the Pistons out of the Palace would seriously hurt the Palace's own profitability (unless it can book 41+ more concerts a year). It would be lose-lose for Gores.
We have to assume that the Pistons aren't coming. Then what? Does the math still make sense?
They've been playing for nearly the last decade like they were exiled to Bolivian.
Could a new stadium make Detroit an even More attractive place to play for big time free agents?
I will definitely miss the Joe. My best memory was when my whole family went to see the Wings play Washington where the Wings won in OT 5-4, and Fedorov had all 5 goals. Most exciting game I've ever been to.