Ohio State's Scholarship Sign: Fiction
"The academic support at Ohio State, there is no way you can fail. Even if you’re giving minimal effort there is no way you can fail.”
So, the sign.
![Alt6mlKCQAAHXqH[1]](https://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/images/0c2679bcc6ca_D0F7/Alt6mlKCQAAHXqH1.jpg "Alt6mlKCQAAHXqH[1]")
It caused Ramzy to do some deep musings on what the value of an education is anyway. I'm not here to speak on Michigan's general studies major or clustering, but rather to point out that the sign is a bald-faced lie. It highlights three impressive-sounding fields in which Ohio State has many majors and Michigan has few. You will be unsurprised to find out virtually all of these players are walk-ons.
According to OSU's 11-12 media guide…
BIOLOGY:
- Walk-ons: four.
- Scholarship players: zero.
ENGINEERING*:
- Walk-ons: six.
- Scholarship players: one. DE Darryl Baldwin is an ME.
BUSINESS:
- Walk-ons: five.
- Scholarship players: one. Jordan Whiting. Taylor Graham is listed as one and has transferred. [UPDATE: Whiting is now considering a transfer to Louisville.]
Meanwhile Mark Huyge can make, like, boats and stuff. There's always a tiny number of football players who are superfreak enough to put 40 hours a week into an "extracurricular activity" and still get a serious degree, but they are few, especially at a place like Michigan that won't even admit you to the B-school until you've scored a 3.8+ in your fist two years.
If you're looking to get a scholarship from Ohio State there's a 90% chance you will end up in the usual communications/"sport and leisure"/taco preparation majors. Which is fine. I just went to a coaching clinic—playing football in college is challenging both mentally and physically.
Just don't pretend you're something you're not. Ask Jim Tressel about how that works out in the long run. Enjoy your bowl this year, guys.
[UPDATE: Should clarify that I also excluded kickers and longsnappers for obvious reasons.]
[HT: Michael Scarn's diary.]
February 21st, 2012 at 4:31 PM ^
Forcier made similar comments about Michigan, but a player not yet enrolled at OSU gets quoted above. The sign is fact, not fiction. It is accurate, but deceptive. It withholds information, which doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it skewed. The author may want to look up the word "fiction" and "bold-faced lie" in the dictionary. The sign does not say "scholarship athletes", so the fact that walkons are included is not a lie.
Pre-engineering (you still say you're an "Electrical/Chemical/etc major") was counted in the above. That doesn't make it wrong.
I like both schools, I visited both schools, I was accepted to both schools, I had full rides from both schools. (I went to Northwestern, because it's degree is seen as valued higher than the equalized rest of the B1G). The selectivity of Ohio State has gone up (26-30 ACT, which is valued much higher than GPA...along with community service, etc) while Michigan has regressed to average 27-31. That's not much different.
Please actually report something factual. You guys write well, but to write about education and use the word fictional, when it's not, is silly.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:34 PM ^
brilliant. love the neutrality. honestly, its skewed and misleading, but that is the way recruiting is done. are you telling me you don't think hoke and co. didnt do the same thing when recruiting against osu before the ncaa infractions were released? im not suggesting that he lied to recruits, or even told them he thought that osu was going to get a bad punishment, but i do believe, that he probably insinuated some things, or offered up some biased facts (urban would ditch after 2 years, long bowl ban, etc.)
February 21st, 2012 at 4:37 PM ^
Nice addon on the end. But I'd be careful what you say, Ohio State's "bowl" is in Columbus next November, you guys might not enjoy their bowl as much as they will.
February 21st, 2012 at 5:26 PM ^
Cooler Pooper Bowl?
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:44 AM ^
February 21st, 2012 at 4:38 PM ^
Your comparison doesn't really make sense. Forcier said you don't have to work hard, that you'll pass anyway...and then he flunked out, presumably for not working hard enough.
Meanwhile, Adolphus Washington said the same thing. I realize Washington has yet to have a chance to flunk out of OSU, but the point is that Forcier was clearly wrong when he said that.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:41 PM ^
I'm from a suburb of Columbus, chose Northwestern, so I know smart kids (4.0+GPA) who struggle at OSU. It really depends on what you study. Business is easy as hell there (took some classes in high school) but engineering is pretty much equal to death. Some peers of mine who went to Cornell said that OSU's engineering classes were harder than the ones at Cornell (after they transferred).
I mean it's all skewed.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:17 PM ^
We are talking about the sign. The sign's intent is to elevate Ohio State football academics at the expense of Michigan football academics. But the sign fails. It proves nothing; it is mostly misleading; it is largely unhelpful to any recruit who is seriously thinking about choosing a (football) school based on academics. It is trashtalk, in four colors, mounted on foamcore board.
Your man in Columbus, Ramzy, thought that the general import of the board was dubious at best, and dumb at worst. So does Brian Cook. In even harsher terms. I think (or I'd like to think) that the two of them agree on that essential point. You should too.
February 21st, 2012 at 8:46 PM ^
How did you get into Northwestern? Er... get a full ride anywhere? Graduate high school?
The quality of that essay: poor.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:31 PM ^
What does one do with an "exploring" degree? I would like to see a structured course list for this major.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:34 PM ^
It allows you to take GECs (chem, math, etc) without declaring a major until the end of your sophomore year. One does not graduate with an "exploration" major, it's the same as "undecided".
"University Exploration (EXP) is designed to assist incoming and current Ohio State students who are undecided on their major. Approximately twenty percent of the incoming student population each year enrolls through EXP. Students identify themselves as undecided for a multitude of reasons; however, EXP advisors typically serve three types of undecided students: those who want to learn about all 160+ majors offered at Ohio State, those who have narrowed their options to a few areas but want to take some time to confirm their interests, and those who have decided on a major but have not yet met the entrance requirements. If this student sounds familiar to you, then you have come to the right place!
In addition to working with first-year undecided students, EXP also assists current re-deciding students. College is a time of great change and development, so it is common for students to begin their academic career in one discipline but decide to switch paths and seek other opportunities. EXP advisors work to help Ohio State students find majors that align with their interests, abilities, values, and goals."
February 21st, 2012 at 4:44 PM ^
I know. Lame sarcasm, I should have been more clear. I just thought it would be amusing if there was actually a major for Exploration, i.e. Magellan 102, or Ponce De Leon 304.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:37 PM ^
When it was first offered it was described as a degree that was primarily for students who planned on pursuing an advanced degree. It was supposed to allow you to taylor your undergraduate degree to better prepare you for advanced study than you might get from a traditional major. It was intended to allow for broader study as one might get from a double major but with (probably) somewhat less depth and possibly more breadth. It may have been used to "slide" athletes past academic requirements, but sliding by academically not the goal of the people that I knew who were pursuing the degree. All of them were trying to cram more value into their undergraduate degree.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:39 PM ^
is that it doesn't really focus on anything, and is thus easier than other classes. I can't say anything against it since I've never experienced it.
February 21st, 2012 at 8:15 PM ^
Right: - The degree does not require you to focus on anything, or perhaps you must somewhat focus on at least 3 different things.
Wrong: The degree allows you to focus on something differently than a traditional major would require you to focus. The minimum course requirements are less demanding, but if you had the notion of attempting to be a renaissance man in the modern world, it allows you to stretch yourself in very demanding ways that a traditional major would not.
Caveat: The degree requirements have changed quite a bit since dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was a student. Back then the degree had few basic requirements, 120 credits, 60 credits at or above the 300 level in three different subjects. So, for example, it was possible to graduate with a bachelors degree that contained, 75 hours above 300 made up of computer engineering, computer science, and electrical engineering, including 15 hours of graduate study. Along with math, and statistics, and physics, and a bunch of other far ranging course work. All stuffed into a bachelors.
Of course that was back when the degree was new and experimental, and the university wanted to see what the students would do with the opportunity. If I read the current degree requirements correctly, that is no longer possible, which may be why it is no longer prized.
As I said, all the people I knew pursuing that degree did so because it allowed them to add value, based on their assessment of value, beyond a traditional major.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:43 PM ^
This is what Brian just did to Meyer/anyone who took this shit seriously. [Warning: F-bomb]
February 21st, 2012 at 4:49 PM ^
1.) Sport Management at Michigan is essentially a business degree. Almost a third of the people in my classes are pre-law, and plenty go on to work for financial firms that have nothing to do with sports. Not that working in sports is even something to sneeze at.
2.) Sports movement is not a major that is offered... Maybe they meant Movement Science? Most of those kids are pre-med.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:49 PM ^
Isn't Family Resource Management = Home Economics?
February 21st, 2012 at 4:51 PM ^
That sign seems like definitive proof that OSU's "hard" programs are easy enough to get through without putting in much time or worrying about scheduling conflicts (i.e., actually attending class). Isn't that the point here?
February 21st, 2012 at 4:58 PM ^
Not sure when this was last updated, but according to the information listed here this is how the major breakdown works out for the students that don't have "walk on" in their bio.
| Business | 4 |
| Communications | 3 |
| Construction systems management | 1 |
| Consumer science | 1 |
| Consumer services | 1 |
| Criminology | 1 |
| Education | 1 |
| Engineering | 1 |
| Exercise science | 3 |
| Family resource management | 2 |
| Health Professions | 1 |
| Human development | 1 |
| Humanities | 1 |
| management and industry | 4 |
| Marketing | 1 |
| Physical Therapy | 1 |
| Political Science | 2 |
| Pre-Med | 1 |
| Sport and Leisure Studies | 4 |
| Undeclared/Unlisted major | 47 |
| Total | 81 |
February 21st, 2012 at 6:19 PM ^
What is Family Resource Management? It sounds like good old-fashioned Home Ec, i.e. learning how to make a blouse out of common household fabric remnants.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:34 PM ^
It is personal financial planning.
February 21st, 2012 at 4:53 PM ^
this really gives you a brief glimpse into the way the man thinks and operates.
It's obviously not too much of a stretch to think that he may employ some of this spin doctoring on the recruiting trail.
I think he fits perfectly at OSU.
February 21st, 2012 at 5:44 PM ^
I actually think the efficacy of the sign itself should be questioned. I'm sure the critical thinking skills of a junior in high school aren't fully developed yet, but a homemade MS Paint sign crafted by the school I'm visiting wouldn't necessarily persuade me as much as US News Rankings, Fulbright Scholars, Nobel Prize Winners, the size of our endowment, non-shittiness of our campus, and actual football examples like Zoltan and Mark Huyge would. This is a non-story to me, and really something that I'd expect from Michigan State.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:03 PM ^
Michigan has this, and others don't. This is an area that athletes I know avoid and thus makes general studies an attractive option.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:05 PM ^
I just think it's funny that the sign has since been removed. Seems like Urban wasn't expecting this one to go public quite so soon. Somebody called bullshit and he removed the sign because once people start arguing about it, recruits will realize he's not being real with them. Two different recruiting styles indeed...
February 21st, 2012 at 6:10 PM ^
February 21st, 2012 at 6:19 PM ^
This seems like a non-argument between two schools that are fine academically. Yes, Ramzy makes the point that UM is the same distance from Harvard as OSU is from Michigan, and that is a valid criticism more of the testing metric employed by the USNWR than the relative values of the institutions. Harvard is a great school, so is UM and OSU. What a couple of kids major in out of 100+ seems silly to me, and the type of "marketing" that needs to die a slow and painful death.
Nobody should hold any pretense as to the relative academic rigor of majors adopted by football players - they are working harder than the average student as soon as they step onto the football field, and so expecting them to keep up with truly daunting majors like STEM or business is just silly; I am definitely not an athlete and struggled enough with CE that I couldn't imagine also having to hit 200+ lb men every day and catch football on a dead sprint. If that means they sign up for an "easy" major like GS, then the derision directed at them shows more about the speaker than the recipient.
If you frame your view of an institution's academic potential based on a glossy sign and some PR-approved jargon, then by all means follow your heart and go there. But the startling lack of intellectual curiosity displayed is coming to that decision does not portend great success in whatever classroom you wind up.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:26 PM ^
I can see the weight room conversation now.
Buckeye 1: "Hey dude, what's this in-jen-earing major about?"
Buckeye 2: "Not sure man, I think it's something to do with trains."
February 21st, 2012 at 7:00 PM ^
You are better then this Shock...
February 21st, 2012 at 7:17 PM ^
I just wanted to make a joke about trains.
February 21st, 2012 at 11:53 PM ^
But maybe he should have tried to be better than that.
February 21st, 2012 at 7:03 PM ^
I do lament that I didn't know about the BGS's lack of foreign language requirement when I was an undergrad. I might have reconsidered. Then again, my foray into econ in my freshman year when I thought I was going to B-School was its own nightmare.
February 21st, 2012 at 8:43 PM ^
There are only 45 Michigan players with a major, yet 59 for Ohio.
Nice sign. Clearly, created by, for and of the Buckeyes. Retarded from start to finish.
February 21st, 2012 at 10:49 PM ^
If a kid and his family can't see past this sign...or are dumb enough to let this sign sway them. Do we REAAALLY want them?
I know we struggled over the past 4-5 years. But would you trade that for Terrelle Pryor a bunch of clowns, some negative pub and a bowl ban?
It's a reasonable question if you ask me.
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:30 AM ^
Agreed, and I wouldn't make that trade at all.
February 21st, 2012 at 11:42 PM ^
what an ugly, disgusting looking group.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:40 AM ^
As a former UM athlete we had to announce our major at the conclusion of our freshmen year, if we were undecided at that time we had to put general studies, it is later changed once you enter a qualifying program which can be as late as your senior semester. The sign is not only stupid, it is also worthless, much like the school that created it.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:45 AM ^
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:04 AM ^
Ohio side you have: 59 players, and if you add up the Michigan side you have: 45 players. Clearly, the sign is meant to be selective and deceptive.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:40 AM ^
I'm an arrogant jerk (worst part of my personality in a sea of imperfection), but I feel I can break down "Academic Prestige"
I'm an investment banker; my analysis is skewed by finance and capital markets positions.
1. Rankings are really dumb and skewed by dozens of nonsense constraints
a) A lot of my good buddies went to Notre Dame (I graduated from Michigan's under graduate business school in 2007) and they love to point out that Notre Dame is ranked higher on business week's rankings (they are 1, Ross is 6)
b) Notre dame is not even ranked for under graduate business programs for US News & World Report (Ross is 3, Notre Dame is at least out of the top 10)
c) Does this mean that we should only use one ranking, both, or neither? Who knows? Lots of really smart people go to Notre Dame, Michigan, Penn, Arizona State, and the University of Alabama. A school is ultimately only as good as the companies that recruit their students.
2. In economics, we call this the signaling effect. With asymmetric information (notably used in discerning whether cars are “lemons” or not--or for instance a resume is a good example), certain employers like Goldman Sachs or McKinsey only recruit at certain schools. Their current employers graduated from there and HR wants similarly qualified employees. For investment banking (schools that are acceptable- in no order):
1. U Chicago
2. Northwestern
3. Michigan
4. Notre Dame
5. Ivy League
6. Berkeley
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Virginia
a) With scarce resources, you can’t find the diamond in the rough at Kansas State to work at your firm. It’s too expensive to find that person when you have perfectly suitable candidates at “traditional schools.”
b) Of course, lots of amazingly talented people have worked in industry and didn’t fit into the aforementioned schools (like Tom Gores who founded Platinum Equity and went to State—he owns the Pistons). It’s just a hell of lot more difficult.
Basically, for a lot of jerk positions (management consultant, accounting, investment banking, trading) you need to fit in a lot of douche bag boxes. There’s a stigma in not being from the “cool crowd.” For example, we had a meeting with a Private Equity shop to sell one of their portfolio companies and we introduced ourselves, normal background where you went to school, experience, etc. My buddy, who’s very smart, went to Iowa and said so. The PE Shop founder said “Are you joking?”
It’s a dick head industry, but the money is good. I guess I just want to express that certain degrees and programs help you disproportionately in certain fields. A law degree from Michigan or Stanford will help you a lot more than a law degree from a non-top tier school. A business degree from Michigan is generally more valuable than a degree studying finance from Eastern Tennessee. And football players do not study anywhere they go. Tom Brady makes a lot more money than your standard MD at Goldman Sachs. Economically a general studies degree appears to be more valuable than a MBA—if you are a world class athlete.
For this response, I award you no points. And may God have mercy on your soul.
February 24th, 2012 at 6:33 PM ^
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