What is the source of our run blocking issues?
Is it youth or coaching?
As Brian pointed out in the Minnesota game, we were very close to a few huge running plays. Yet, PSU was a tire fire. Part of it was losing Lewan, another part was the heavyside formation (which we ran PA out of to see AJ Williams get burned...).
EDIT: and Coaching is your winner!
October 13th, 2013 at 6:06 PM ^
This was the biggest reason I liked the Rodriguez hire. He'll take his talent, put them in position that best utilizes their skills and finds the weaknesses in the defense and exposes it. I was a bit sick of the old mentaility of "we're Michigan so we'll be able to just pound it down your throat".
You can just see that the offense isn't utilizing the strengths of their players right now.
Totally agree we change it up when we 'have to'. Not a good formula for success.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:21 PM ^
He'll take his talent, put them in position that best utilizes their skillI assume you are only speaking of the offensive side of the ball?
October 13th, 2013 at 6:47 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:59 PM ^
Threet and Sheridan were toast, no matter what plays were called or what formations were used. Bo Schembechler wouldn't have gotten the 2008 personnel to .500.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:47 PM ^
Maybe, but his assertion that RR would mothball his system because it didn't suit the players he had is still ridiculous. If anything, RR was even more ideological about running the kind of offensive scheme he wanted to run, personel be damned.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:01 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:04 PM ^
To be fair Lewan was probably playing hurt from the beginning and definitely for much of the time after he was slow to get up in the 1st quarter. Also, Magnuson did surprisingly ok at pass protection. I think he had a bad read on the one sack/fumble where he blocked the wrong guy and let an edge rusher go free, but otherwise he seemed to have the agility and long frame needed to keep guys off the QB.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:00 PM ^
We weren't running all that well with Lewan in the game. There seemed to be a few holes in the second half and it seemed like it sucked less running the RB in the second half than the first half...which hopefully will bode well for next year when we lose both tackles and everyone else returns. Perhaps PSU was getting worn down a bit in the second so with Lewan in + fatigue by PSU we would have moved the ball a bit better.
My initial guess is youth and inexperience at the interior line. I'm sure those that disect each play can give a better theory.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:01 PM ^
we don't have the line (for whatever reason you want to blame) to line up, let the defense knwo what is coming, and then execute.
I can't believe Borges call both the Notre Dame game and everything since. There is a serious disconnect out ther.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:06 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:06 PM ^
I am not going to win the Snowflake Battle, but in all honesty, a thread discusses an issue specifically like this probably qualifies as a keeper. I suppose today has been calm enough that I'll take the foot of the gas a bit.
The UFR for this week should be interesting - I said it elsewhere, but I totally get simplifying the scheme for the sake of the personnel, but I actually wonder if we went overboard a little last night. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I wonder about it.
It should be noted in this discussion that Devin Gardner has only 15 more yards of rushing than Toussaint on the year (439 to 424), but it has taken Toussaint 123 carries at 3.4 yards per carry to do that. A typical Fitz performance last year was 13 carries for about 55 yards, but this year, it is 20 carries for 70 yards or so - that makes for nearly a full yard knocked off his average YPC year-over-year.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:09 PM ^
This is getting ridiculous, Hoke needs to fire Funk, he's putting the worst OL's in the history of Michigan football, and Borges still hasn't figured out that you can't run on every single first down.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:15 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:12 PM ^
8 men in the box.
"if you know what's comin', it ain't so hard to stop." - the old ball coach
October 13th, 2013 at 6:15 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:36 PM ^
really?
October 13th, 2013 at 6:30 PM ^
It almost seems as if Hoke & Co. feel that if they keep calling power runs, despite the fact that they're not working, the OL will suddenly "get it" and start to block effectively.
I asked this elsewhere, but it's on point here. The plays they're calling have to be the ones that the OL is executing well in practice, right? They drill them over and over and over, the get into the game and get totally blown up. Oddly, they switched to a zone read scheme and it was effective with DG running. But, it was obvious (at least to me) that DG couldn't take much more punishment and his tank was running low. Are the OLinemen better at blocking the "spread" scheme?
Lastly, what is up with Fitz. I realize he has little running room. But even on his good runs, he won't just keep going forward. Watch any other RB in the nation. They hit the hole, and go forward, even when they're hit, and they fall forward. I don't understand.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:50 PM ^
OL issues aside, I was screaming at the TV for this exact reason the entire game. Gets to the hole, stops, dances, no gain/loss. Not sure what's going on with him.
October 13th, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^
It this oline is successful running between tackles against the first team defense in practice, what's that say about the first team defense?
October 13th, 2013 at 6:32 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:52 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:33 PM ^
Argghhhhhhh, I'd forgotten about the pass play where A.J. Williams got toasted and Lewan and Schofield were both lined up on the right side of the line. WTF was that?!?!?!
October 13th, 2013 at 7:13 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:49 PM ^
Does anyone else think Schofield is terrible?
I dont think he's improved AT ALL in the past few years.
On the whole youth aspect, what do people think will happen next year when we lose our 2 most experienced players? This isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, unless there are some dramatic changes in how these kids are coached/developed.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:51 PM ^
I don't think he'll be an NFL player, but it's hard to say he didn't improve over the years.
October 13th, 2013 at 6:59 PM ^
I guess 'At All' is pretty harsh, but for having 2 5th year senior OTs, we are unbelievably ineffective...I acknowledge the interior OL is really bad, but I also think our OTs have to be overrated.
If you have a truly dominant Tackle in college, you'd figure we could at least manage to get a few yards consistently..
I'm just perplexed.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:11 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 8:38 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:01 PM ^
I think this OL has one guy that would be a starter if it weren't for the horrible depth issues. Some of that is experience, i.e., they might be starting but not for another few years, and some of that is talent -- which is what we saw last season. Just hard to believe that Fitz rushed for 1000 yards two seasons ago. Obviously, the guys he had blocking for in '11 were doing something better than the guys this season.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:04 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:56 PM ^
IIRC when Hoke took over in 2011 there was a servere lack of scholarship OLinemen on the roster. He didn't get many OLinemen in that first class, but the last two classes had big hauls. From everything that I've been told (from former OLinemen) and read about the position, and developing a great OL, it take a lot more bodies than what Michigan has had.
First off, as we all know, almost every OLineman is going redshirt. Some of those guys, no matter how highly touted, are going to be busts, and some get hurt. Bottom line, you need a continuing recruiting pipeline of top OL talent that get's into the system, develops, and competes so that the top 5 emerge year in and year out.
Last year's OL was made up of upperclassmen who, for the most part, had never played because they weren't good enough to start. They got the start by default. If the pipeline had be fully functional, there would have been some RS Soph or even RS Freshmen that could have unseated them (e.g. Bryant was said to have been slated to start before his injury). There weren't many there to push the upperclassmen because a RS Soph came into the program in 2010 and we all know what happened (or didn't) then.
Let's look at OL Depth:
RS Sr (2009): 3 Lewan, Schofield, Gunderson (who?)
RS Jr (2010): 2 Buzynski, Mateus (who?)
RS So (2011): 3 Miller, Byrant, Glasgow
RS Fr (2012): 4 Bars, Pliska, Kalis, Braden, Magnuson
Fr (2013): 5 Froelich, Dawson, Kugler, Bosch, Tuley-Tillman, Fox, Samuelson
Think about the how different this line might be if along with Lewan and Schofield there was at least one more RS Sr. that had acutally played some in his career. Or, if that RS Jr class had actually produced a starter, not just a guy the keeps getting beat out by a walk-on RS So. IMO, Miller (not anymore) and Glasgow are only playing because the are no other RS Sr. and Jr. that can play. Think if each class had 4 that had some playing time. It's ok if a RS Jr or even an RS So or RS Fr beats out an RS Sr. for a starting spot. But, as I said, this "default starting" isn't going to build a great OL. The good news, as you can see, is that Hoke has the pipeline back open and this crap shouldn't happen again.
October 14th, 2013 at 1:48 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:59 PM ^
- Bad individual technique. Guys standing straight up and letting guys get in on them low and push them on their heels. A lot of plays start from a fresh line of scrimmage 2 yards behind where the ball was snapped because of this.
- Guys not squaring up to blocks on second level defenders, letting guys run by them or force them to give ground to recover a good blocking angle. This is happening a lot to TEs and fullbacks.
- Bad cohesiveness. Guys not feeling what the other guy is doing or how much help they need. You have guys holding combos too long to release on one play, then on the next they'll leave to go block a LB while the other guy gets smoked by a DT he has no angle on.
- Targeting issues, not identifying the right guy to block, resulting on some guys blocking air.
- RB hesitation. Fitz just isn't a guy that has enough burst to be patient and wait for a crease to develop. For every time that works, he gets caught flat footed and hit in the backfield three times as often. He consistently fails to create on his own or even to fall forward for an extra yard or two
- Play-calling. Teams know when we're running a lot of times and we do it anyway. We lack credible counters to keep people honest, and the ones we do have, we don't deploy in a coherent way to have any effect on the defense.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:01 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 9:01 PM ^
"I still think its the blocking by the oline TE and FB"
That's all?
October 13th, 2013 at 11:07 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 6:59 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:06 PM ^
And that is a Sr. RB. At some point you have to look at the player and ask, "why can't that guy execute?"
October 13th, 2013 at 7:10 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 8:42 PM ^
No one can run when the defense puts 8 in the box, even if every one of those 8 defenders and 6 blockers laid down on the field you would trip over them. Instead we run into our olines ass. If I was an RB I would take the handoff an either pass the damn thing or run backwards hopoing to get a chance to round the corner
October 13th, 2013 at 7:01 PM ^
Well, continuing to try to MANBALL when you obviously cannot is one reason. But then I don't know what else they can do... go back to the spread option? Can you do that after recruiting kids telling them they're going to be in a pro-style offense?
Looking at the 2010 and 2011 recruting classes I don't see many OL at all, and 2 of them aren't on the team. RR's poor recruiting is still hurting us.
I know OP asked about run blocking, but Fitz needs to step up his pass blocking. He keeps trying to chip guys w/his shoulder and it doesn't do a damn thing.
October 13th, 2013 at 7:07 PM ^
Everything. Line can't hold their blocks, FBs and TEs whiff on more plays than not, RBs have trouble getting through the line and/or making guys miss, and the playcalling is so predictable that defenses know it before UM even lines up.
Also, and this has been noted before, the team virtually never audibles out of the playcall because they get to the line with 10 seconds left. When the defense only has to guess right once each down, they can get lucky quite a bit more. Compare that to when PSU went up-tempo and got the UM defense cheating or out of place; if you aren't going to run that type of game at least change the play up and get guys confused. Without a clear physical and talent advantage, you really do need to misdirect and confuse the defense to be able to run effectively given the personnel out there.
October 14th, 2013 at 12:11 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:07 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:17 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 7:17 PM ^
I think the answer is they're simply not that good. I know there's a tendency to say it can't get worse, but the truth is it can. In fact Green, who is probably the best of the rest, definitely isn't doing any better and is probably making more mistakes.