OT: CFB - Then there were three Independents. Army to join AAC. What will the remaining three Independents do?
An article caught my attention earlier today - and the article focused on Army joining the AAC effective next season (2024) - though it appears the Army - Navy game will continue to be played as an OOC matchup. Here's the link to the article: https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38741191/army-set-join-aac-football-sources-say-navy-game-intact
With this transition - it means there will only be three (3) Independents in football - UMass, UConn, and Notre Dame.
It seems that UConn might have been hoping to join the Big 12 - which is strong in hoops (like UConn) - but, no commitments have been made.
UMass is interesting - they were a member of the MAC, and left after the 2015 season, the primary reason appears to be the level of basketball competitiveness. Not sure if there's any conference that wants UMass - or - that UMass wants to join.
Which leaves ND. I don't expect ND to join a conference because of their cherished independence in football - when they play five (mostly) walkovers in the ACC every season. And, of course - ND is not eligible to play in the ACC CCG.
Should every team be a conference member? Will every Independent be forced to join a conference except ND? Do you care? Thoughts?
October 25th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
I don't think any team should be forced to join a conference. Independent teams don't deserve special considerations either.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:41 AM ^
Uhhh ask ESPN or Fox. They do if they bring a huge number of eyeballs and thus significantly and quantifiably drive up advertising revenue. We can bitch about and not like ND’s special attention it gets, but it gets it for a reason.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:21 PM ^
ND shouldn't be forced to join a conference, but at the same time, no team should be allowed to be considered for playoffs if its conference does not have a playoff game.
Most of the teams that play in the playoffs in 2024 will have likely been in a conference championship game. It is simply unfair to avoid the wear and tear that game 13 requires.
FWIW, I would like to see a playoff system within conferences with conference winners being in the NC game. With four major conferences, that would seem like a logical approach.
October 25th, 2023 at 4:44 PM ^
Although they may technically be the last independents there are 2 more who are independents in reality: Oregon State and Washington State. And I find their situation much more interesting and sympathetic.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Question on the army story that I didn't see answered in the article I read this morning, so is army not ever going to play navy in aac game, unless it's the conference championship?
October 25th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
This will probably become "more clear" - but, that's what it sounds like. Since they'll be in the same conference - my thought / perspective is - define it as a protected rivalry game - and, have it a defined weekend.
The challenge may be - the traditional schedule, I believe, has the Army - Navy game the weekend AFTER the Conference Championship games are played.
It's an interesting situation.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
The hell with Notre Dame.
They will eventually have to join a conference when the ACC collapses (it's only a matter of time). Who of any note will be left then that will want to play them?
Look at the new Big Ten. Do you think that Michigan or Ohio State or Penn State will ever want to play them once they have to play several of USC/Washington/Oregon/UCLA each year?
Look at the new SEC. Do you think that the top teams there will ever want to play them once they have to play several of Texas/Oklahoma/(FSU/Miami/Clemson) each year?
Notre Dame will be left playing G5 teams and MAC teams each year.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
"Notre Dame will be left playing G5 teams and MAC teams each year."
That idea is a ray of sunshine in the midst of a cloudy period. Thank you.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
To HELL with Notre Dame...
Unless they kiss the ring and become a fair and equal sharing partner to the B1G then I will slaughter the fatted calf and receive they prodigal son.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
To Hell with Notre Dame
They are only half independent and it's stupid that their foosball team uses the ACC as their drunk girlfriend.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
I think of UConn and UMass as basketball first schools and UConn seemed very excited to be back in the Big East. In a weird way I think their football independence is the opposite of NDs - ND is in a major conference to support their football independence, UConn's football independence allows them to be FBS but be in the basketball conference they want.
UMass is different being in a mid major, and their FCS program was good once, but I still think the best fit for their basketball program will drive them.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
ND carries on until they have to do something.
UConn carries on until the ACC gives them an invite - then, they at least consider it, but may not definitely go. The Big East hoops situation is obviously working for them.
UMass carries on because nobody wants them.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
If I recall, UMass left the MAC because they didn't want to put anything but football there. I think they're happy in the A10, although I'm sure they'd jump to the Big East or ACC if they had a chance. And while they're not as good at BBall as UConn, they were a very solid program in the '90s and there's not really any reason they couldn't be again.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
Yeah, the MAC told them "all sports or you can't be football only anymore", and UMass said, nope, then we're out for football.
UMass hoops: as good as they were in the 1990s, they've made ONE NCAA tournament in the entire 21st Century. They aren't even a good A-10 program any more, they're only average.
My boss in the 2015-2017 time frame was a UMass grad. His opinion was they should just concentrate on hockey, continue on in the A-10, and give up football entirely.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
USC moving to the Big 10 is pretty big considering their rivalry with ND. Does that matter? Maybe. In the end it will all come down to money
October 25th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
All things eventually change.
USC dropping Notre Dame would be an extreme radical change to their tradition.
But it's not like USC joining the fricking BIG TEN is not an extreme radical change to their tradition.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^
I wonder how the B1G will deal with ND in the future - in 2026, ND is scheduled to play four B1G teams - Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan State, and USC.
And, as others have stated - to hell with ND.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
This number will be back to 4 once the B1G bans Michigan from the title game this year and Michigan responds by leaving the conference. (and we join the Big East for hoops)
/s (maybe?)
October 25th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
To Hell with Notre Dame.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
UConn thinks of themselves as a Power Five level school, and has the basketball championships to prove it. They would happily take the Big XII's calls, but I'm not sure the Big XII is interested. I think the Big XII would pair them with Gonzaga as basketball-only entrants, but UConn may as well just stay in the Big East at that point.
UMass feels like a decent fit for the American. The American has a lost a little bit of its basketball prestige, but I think it's still on par with the A-10, which is where they are today.
Notre Dame is 35 years removed from its last national championship. They made the playoff in 2018 on the back of one-score wins against Michigan, Ball State, Vanderbilt, Pitt, and USC, and again in 2020 where they played in the Rose Bowl, in front of 18,000 fans, in Arlington, Texas. In other words, even with their own TV contract, the ability to manipulate their schedule to their heart's content, and a name brand that has outshone its competence for years, Notre Dame still isn't relevant.
To hell with Notre Dame. They belong in the Big Ten, and they know it, and if they're too good for the Big Ten, fine -- let 'em deal with the ACC. No more special treatment.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^
I think the Big 12 did call UConn but stopped calling when the Pac12 fell apart. But UConn is a basketball school - and big east basketball is more important to them then Big 12 football/basketball combined, although the money does and will talk. The ACC I can imagine being harder to say no to, but the Big 12 vs the Big East...
October 25th, 2023 at 11:32 AM ^
The last time that the Big East finished ahead of the Big 12 in the KenPom conference ratings was 2013. Now, that's partly due to its smaller size, and we'll see if things change with expansion, but the teams that the Big 12 is adding are, for the most part, schools with a decent basketball pedigree. UConn in the Big XII would get games against Kansas, Houston, Baylor, and Arizona -- three Final Four teams in the last four years, plus a national powerhouse.
If they're able to add Gonzaga, that'd be one more feather in the cap.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
For sure, but as most of us would agree - it's not just about the competitiveness of the league. It's about rivalries. UConn is getting to play Georgetown and Villanova. If they went to the ACC and got to play 'Cuse and BC i'm sure they'd still be happy. But playing the Zags and old Big East foes the Mountaineers and Bearcats? I'm not a UConn basketball fan, but I imagine they'd be less excited about that.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
UMass needs to either commit enough to justify membership in the AAC - not too far from Army and Navy - or drop to FCS. What exactly are they trying to accomplish?
October 25th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
For certain schools, FBS gives some financial benefits that spreads to the rest of your AD. For a school like UMass, who was pretty good at FCS football, I think it's more about the money than the winning. Matt Brown of Extra Points talks about college sports finances a whole lot, I don't remember the details tho.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
Don’t remember UMass being a member of the MAC. Guess I never paid attention.
When I hear UMass, all I think of is us struggling to stop their offense under RichRod. Even the historian in me, who saves wins no matter what, has never felt a reason to relive a 42-37 win over UMass.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^
Hey, that's only a little more than half of what they gave up to Illinois in their win later that year...
October 25th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
Ugh. I was at the Illinois game. The irony being that the defense iced the win….after they had already given up 65 points.
Just…..no.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
I think it's important to call Notre Dame partial ACC members.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:28 PM ^
I think ND should be eligible for - and, if they qualify, play in the ACC CCG. All of the other P5 conferences require their leading teams to play in a CCG - and, ND gets a "free pass".
This will become even more evident in '24 with CFP Expansion. There full '24 schedule follows
ND has three games of note next season - Texas A&M, Florida State (in South Bend in November - I don't know how that was scheduled), and USC.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:14 PM ^
ND does what it wants. Since there will be a 12 team CFP next year, they can remain independent for years to come and still go the expanded CFP with 1 or 2 losses.
Frankly, I don't give a damn what ND does at this point.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
As it always does when discussing Notre Dame, it bears repeating here:
To Hell with Notre Dame.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
ND, won't join unless the conferences give them an ultimatum: join us or we won't schedule you. Then they'll make a decision, pushed by the networks who want the eyeballs for more matchups of top schools.
October 25th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^
To hell with Notre Dame. They will never win another national championship since you have to win it on the field now.
October 25th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
I can’t see ND joining the B1G, despite the massive financial windfall it would provide. As an independent they can make the playoffs much easier than they could by joining the B1G. Penn State is the use case for what ND would look like in the B1G, fighting for 2nd/3rd in the East. They would fade to semi-irrelevance and lose their delusion of being a national power. They may join an ACC or other very winnable conference, but you won’t see them in the B1G or SEC.