Numbness to GameDay misogyny
While at a bar watching Gameday before the Cincinnati game, a female friend of mine commented on the requisite 'Ann Arbor is a whore' sign bobbing up and down in the background. As an 18 year old freshman male, I must confess I found these signs and t-shirts fairly funny, and figured Michigan must be doing something right to get so much attention. In turn, I bought a few of my own that jabbed at the usual suspects while en route to Michigan Stadium and Crisler, and was easily acculturated to yelling about how it was 'all their fault' at Yost.
As a 36 year old, I'm ashamed to say the misogynistic quality of that sign, though similar to several others each week televised on national television, was still lost on me. Male sporting events are no doubt a remaining bastion for easy bigotry and sexism, but they can also be a place for Michigan to lead by example. These signs, t-shirts, and chants aren't ironic, they're not witty, and here's hoping the next generation of Michigan Men and Women uphold a more advanced sense of social awareness than mine did. Perhaps we can listen more closely to the lyrics of another common ritual at every game and show how we really are the Leaders and Best.
September 11th, 2017 at 3:55 AM ^
When does the OT season end?
September 11th, 2017 at 5:11 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 5:25 AM ^
Pussy
/s
/kinda
September 11th, 2017 at 6:25 AM ^
Dude, do you even hang around modern women? We are talking about the Amy Schumer/Lena Dunham/Broad City generation. Ann Arbor is a whore is on par with saying "how are you?" in 2017.
September 11th, 2017 at 6:31 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 6:37 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 6:47 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 6:56 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 6:56 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 7:14 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 7:15 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 7:27 AM ^
Please delete this thread.
September 11th, 2017 at 7:30 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 7:53 AM ^
I think there are several reasons that this thread is bothersome.... and none of them have to do with being slightly more mature:
1. This is a sports board. People don't care for the crap we see on facebook/twitter and come here to avoid it sometimes.
2. I have seen maybe a handful of these shirts worn by Michigan fans in my 20 plus years of going to games. This is not "an issue" that needs addressing.
3. Whether you agree with OP or not, his suggestion to other fans as to how they should act is condescending.
4. With millions of fans and 100K plus each weekend, there are going to be some vast differences in maturity and political view. We all know it is an immature joke shirt. No one I know owns one and I dont care for them personally. But, they do more harm to reputation of those very few people wearing them than they do to the female gender.
Live and let live.
September 11th, 2017 at 9:54 AM ^
1. Then feel free not to join the discussion. I don't join the discussions about apparel usually because I don't care one bit about Jumpman gear, and I haven't watched a full episode of GoT so I don't join those either. The title basically gave away the general sentiment; skip it if you want.
2. I saw a couple vendors selling "Columbus is a whore" and "East Lansing is a whore" in my day. It's out there. It shouldn't be. The fact most people don't wear them doesn't mitigate the fact that they are inappropriate or, at least, tasteless.
3. It's a suggestion. As with the post, ignore it if you don't care. I'm being told by you to basically let everyone keep doing what they want, and I reject that suggestion. I don't necessarily think you are being condescending.
4. I think it does damage for both the wearer AND the ongoing social stigma and biases that work against women, PoC, basically everyone who isn't a heterosexual white male. Sure, do I think this post will change much? No. But a discussion about how a dumb shirt uses an offensive word to make a cheap joke maybe moves us a tiny little bit toward its eradication, and to me that's worth it.
September 11th, 2017 at 10:33 AM ^
1. This has nothing to do with race. That you take it there is a problem. Extrapolate. More. Maybe you can make this a bigger issue and in some way find a justification for it being bad. If you are not offended by these shirts, you are basically a Nazi, right? I cannot believe you brought race into this. Weak.
2. The threads about uniforms and GOT are not calling out people for being misogynistic. Surely you see the differnce between talking about clothes and posting about how other people are misognyists. One is easy to ignore. The other is extremely judgmental and condescending.
3. The original post does nothin to "eradicate" the issue of the shirts. Also, I am a little concerned about "eradicating" immature jokes, even if inapproriate, under the guise of meking the world a better place. Embrace free speech. How would you feel if the majority of people thought that openly joking about "communism" was a problem because it was unAmerican?
If you can't see how "eradicating" something that is a harmless bad taste joke isn't a concern to freedom of speach, you are fooling yourself. You may claim on some deeper level it really isn't harmless, but couldn't that be said of anything that you disagree with?
Here I am defending shirts I dislike, worn by people I probably wouldn't like, just to keep condescending people who don't understand the basics our constitutional privileges from being unchecked. No one wants tyranny whether you think you agree with the majority's principals or not.
September 11th, 2017 at 10:48 AM ^
1. I simply pointed out that society has always favored a particular designation of person. I like how "heterosexual" and "male" aren't issues you are taking with, but the fact I mentioned that skin color played in the ongoing social stigmas. And your over-reaction to it caught me a little off-guard until I remembered you vehemently defended a frat that destroyed a couple of hotel rooms despite literally all evidence that they were 100% at fault. So yeah, sorry if I'm not overly moved by your knee-jerk reaction to someone pointing out that society is maybe a little skewed.
2. It's still just a thread. They didn't call you out. It wasn't "PeterKilma is a sexist and mysognist." It's a thread about a sign someone saw at Gameday. You can still 100% skip it.
3. Getting rid of mysoginy, sexism, racism, etc. is a societal good I stand behind. I'm not calling for thought police; I get that people are trying to be funny. But it's fair to point out that if the sum-total of an "immature joke" is to equate a city with a derogatory term almost 100% of time directed at women, maybe that's a joke not worth making. It's not directed at some greater truth, so attempt to make social commentary. It's basically a crass way of saying your school is full of dumb people. There have to be better ways to convey that sentiment.
This is not a constitutional issue. Nobody is taking away your right to make those shirts. Someone pointed out "that's offensive and maybe we should knock it off" and a bunch of people rushed to the defense of shirts "they don't like" because they suddenly worry about a misinterpretation of free speech? I don't buy that.
September 11th, 2017 at 12:02 PM ^
Your hope is that the shirts are "edradicated" and the goal is to get rid of them. You don't want to change the law to get rid of the shirts, but you still want them gone. Weilding public shaming to get rid of harmless, tasteless jokes is a really bad precedent.
You claim throwing out the word "misogyny" is harmless and that people shouldn't be so offended and resort to big issues like free speech. You spew hateful words, but pretend it is not really a big deal.
I support getting rid of misogyny. I agreee its a joke not worth making.
Of course I am not standing on a soapbox mentioning to others it should be eradicated or suggesting that it is morally wrong to wear the shirts. That is the job of OP, yourself and others who have a very condescending tone and little knowledge of the concept of freedoms.
You are making a "big" point, but trying to pretend it is not that big. Re-read your posts. You claim this is just an offhand comment and can be ignored. No one is calling anyone out personally, right? It is not that important.
Of course, though the jokes are "misogynistic." That is a very strong word. You hope this is one step closer to eradicating them. We should "knock it off," right?
Basically, "I want to tell people what to do, but it is really no big deal."
Amazing.
Your position is well-intentioned, but PROFOUNDLY immature.
September 11th, 2017 at 11:10 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 8:21 AM ^
Right, but then we need to somehow believe that the term "whore" can only be applied to women, or I guess someone who identifies as a woman. Which is illogical. The term is not mutually exclusive.
September 11th, 2017 at 9:17 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 9:28 AM ^
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September 11th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^
"... suggesting being slightly more mature."
It would have been far more mature for the original poster to respect this site's no-politics rule on this obviously contentious topic.
Same goes for the mods.
September 11th, 2017 at 10:30 AM ^
Sure, this place could ignore stuff like these signs. It isn't technically the purview of this site. But I saw the same arguments in the topic about booing the players. This isn't a "look at those clowns in Congress" type of thread. It's a "stop using sexist terms as a punchline." The fact it's contentious seems more troubling to me than the OP pointing it out.
September 11th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^
Which is fine, but others, also of good mind and good heart, would disagree. The main point, I think, is that technically correct is the best kind of correct, and as you say, this topic isn't technically in the purview of this site.
I'm disappointed in the moderators here.
September 11th, 2017 at 7:45 AM ^
Wow- it is INCREDIBLE to see people get so triggered by a simple thought expressed by 2 people on this site. The OP, and julesh verifying veracity. If you don't agree, that's fine, then move on. Or make your own thread! Do anything else. You're more than welcome to complain, but it seems so counter-productive. We've got a bunch of dudes on here that are waaaaay too insecure with themselves.
Is there misogyny intertwined into our culture? Especially the college football sub-culture? ABSOLUTELY! This is not a controversial comment! So don't act all offended, damn- it was straight up embarrassing to read through this thread. People trashing fellow fans over caring too much about people?? Seriously? Just acknowledge a decent point from OP that this stuff is present all over collegiate athletics and move on. Or comment in response and have a legit debate, don't attack their character and act like they're less of a man.
Whoever dropped the "I'm embarrassed to have you as a fellow alum..." maybe you should check out the SEC? What an absurd comment to make after someone just suggested there is inequality present in the world.
end rant. go blue, baby!
September 11th, 2017 at 7:48 AM ^
also- I do totally recognize the legitimacy of people saying "meh- maybe not here?" That's totally fair. This was purely to those who responded with a surprising level of vitriol to a fellow fan making an opinion known. Just had to defend 'em a bit! Hope everyone has a faaaaantastic day.
September 12th, 2017 at 8:01 PM ^
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September 11th, 2017 at 7:47 AM ^
I don't need this on the MGoBoard.
The resolve is simple: Treat people nicely and respectfully. Additionally: Don't be overly sensitive about everything.
I think that when we start trying to manage how everyone expresses themselves and police what everyone says to the nth degree, it becomes both ineffective and, quite frankly, in some situations, outright obnoxious.
Males, and in particular white males, have become the antagonists du jour.
September 11th, 2017 at 7:49 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 7:51 AM ^
Maybe you're the problem? Men can be whores too.
September 11th, 2017 at 8:05 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 8:05 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 8:10 AM ^
Ann Arbor is a whore is an OSU shirt.
Anyway, I was walking through the diag on Friday with my little one and it was Festifall (tons of clubs and organizations out to recruit new members) and being Ann Arbor, the orgs are usually liberal and progressive (minority rights, women's issues... as at almost any large college campus).
In the middle of the diag, there were 2 DJ's blasting music (maybe Common or Future or somebody like that, I'm still caught up in the 90s-00s) and the lyrics were basically "NI**A, NI**A, BI**H, BI**H) and it was so strange that I was next to a women's right tent and nobody seemed to care (and some danced) about those lyrics.
September 11th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
Yep.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the…
This essay would argue that that happens because it's not about women's rights at all, it's about Red Team vs. Blue Team.
September 11th, 2017 at 8:20 AM ^
WTF, mate? This is an odd OP.
September 11th, 2017 at 8:20 AM ^
done.
Artificial surface be damned, I am happy Baker Mayfield planted that flag.
September 11th, 2017 at 8:25 AM ^
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September 11th, 2017 at 8:25 AM ^
My takeaway here is that people should really not be using gendered slurs like bitch, pussy, whore, etc. which imply females are lesser. Seems simple, reasonable, and rather uncontroversial to me.
September 11th, 2017 at 6:08 PM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 8:26 AM ^
Columbus committed genocide, so there
September 11th, 2017 at 9:08 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 11:30 AM ^
(and me)?
September 11th, 2017 at 8:26 AM ^
Misogyny is everywhere. I have experienced it at every time in my life. It's like Harbaugh told the players (about the acute emotions of the game)- you need to be dead to it. You just need to hold your head up and be the better person. I went to engineering school (male dominated), graduate school (male dominated) and work in a male dominated field. Just be better and don't dwell on it.
Here are some examples: From anatomy professor "What's the largest vein in a woman's mouth? The deep dorsal vein of the penis!". I have been told to stand with my nose in a corner in surgery, for the duration of the surgery. I have been told that my answers are wrong, but when the men give the same answer, somehow it is correct. When I bring my car to the mechanic, no one believes the problem - when my husband brings it, somehow it gets fixed.
The best thing is just to teach our kids to be above this and not make assumptions about others skills/knowledge/ability. My boys know I am smart and capable, so I demonstrate to them that I can be above it and the people making assumptions are wrong and not make the same mistakes themselves.
Of course, I told my husband that I was going to post this and he said "I'm too busy watching Miss America to listen." Lol.
September 11th, 2017 at 9:13 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 9:25 AM ^
Do it better than them, kick 'em in the teeth! I like to do it with a smile. ;-)
September 11th, 2017 at 9:39 AM ^
September 11th, 2017 at 6:24 PM ^
I definitely have it better than women in Pakistan and a lot of other places, too. I wasn't complaining, I was stating facts that have happened in my life. There's a difference. I am actually pretty happy and can deal with it quite well.
September 11th, 2017 at 10:32 AM ^
Strangely enough, the women in my life say that it is almost always other women who make things worse on the job. They prefer working with men because for the most part the men just go about the job, while the women engage in petty grievances, emotion and gossip.
Of course, its probably sexist for me to repeat the experiences of women I know and they probably aren't real women and their experiences probably don't count. Or something.
September 11th, 2017 at 11:12 AM ^
Ah yes, because this thread has been chock-full of men ignoring emotion and petty grievances.