WindyCityBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 9:07 PM ^

Listen.  I don't want to fire JB.  Unless, he does something boneheaded (i.e. NCAA violations), I think he should leave when he's ready, which I think will be in a couple years anyway.

With that said, we need to be honest about JB.  He's a good solid coach.  Nothing more, nothing less.  He's not a hall of fame coach.  He's not an elite coach,  In fact, he's not really a "great" coach.  He's just a good solid coach that will stumble onto success from time to time.  And for us, he was the perfect coach to get us to a respectable status.  But he won't get to where this program should be...and we should be preparing to find someone who will.

JB has been out-couched, out-classed, and out-talented by a good chunck of the Big Ten for many years.  The most disheartening thing about this, is that most of the fans are seemingly OK with this.  They hide behind excuses like:

1. "well at least we do it clean" As if we are the only clean program in nation (breaking news: the VAST majority of programs, including programs much better than ours, play clean)

2. "historically speaking, we are supposed to be a second rate big ten team"  Loser's mentality IMO.

Michigan basketball is an under-utilized asset.  We can do better than this, and I think we will with a new coach in a couple years.

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 40753

taistreetsmyhero

December 4th, 2017 at 9:19 PM ^

I would be shocked if any coach has ever helped develop more lower-rated recruits into NBA players (or at least players that get drafted). It’s just incredibly hard to recruit at an elite level (even this incoming class has no elite talent, just a high number of solid-good recruits), if you aren’t willing to play the dirty game. And it’s hard to replace early entries with mid-level talent when your system is so hard to pick up.

Joined: 08/08/2012

MGoPoints: 39396

WindyCityBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 9:29 PM ^

...using the "at least we don't play dirty" bit.  No, only a very select few fanbases were sweating it out over the FBI stuff.  And guess what, nothing big happened (I know that doesn't mean much) as it seems only one program got hit (Louisville). 

The fact is, the VAST VAST majority of college programs are clean, just as clean as ours.  Michigan fans need to stop thinking we are uniquely clean and stop using it as an excuse.

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 40753

hajiblue72

December 4th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^

Really? Could you provide some examples of that? I posted our record against MSU and OSU above. Wisconsin would be our Achilles heel, but they have had the most success in the Big ten the last few years. Since 2010, who else has consistently out-coached and out-talented us? I think I can safely say we have been the best team in the Big Ten at the end of the season 3 of the last 7 years.

Joined: 10/12/2010

MGoPoints: 427

WindyCityBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 10:59 PM ^

I said " a good chunk".  JB also splt with Tom Crean (8-8).  Tom Crean, the coach we like to rip on so much.   The best JB could do was split.

And as I mentioned in my reply to your post, I think is deceptive to pick 2010 as a starting point.  JB inherited a very talented team in 2008.

So starting from 2008, you'll see that MSU and OSU and Wisconsin all have better records against us and have achieved more in the big ten and in the NCAA tournament than we have.  Not to mention Tom Crean won 2 big ten titles as well. 

 

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 40753

Lil boy blue

December 4th, 2017 at 9:12 PM ^

We questioned Beilein ad nauseam last year and already are at it again 10 games into the season. The dude has forgotten more about basketball than the collective "we" will ever know. Pretty sure he also knows the strengths and weaknesses and dependability of his players more than anyone here. There will be more frustrating losses in the weeks ahead but we will be clicking by March.

Joined: 12/30/2016

MGoPoints: 1985

Lil boy blue

December 4th, 2017 at 9:38 PM ^

It's like this every year .... The last loss I cared about prior to March Madness was to Indiana before we made it to the finals and lost to a team that's since vacated the win. We will be fine but apparently it's more therapeutic for posters to lose their shit and call for another's mans job despite lacking the credentials to carry said mans job.

Joined: 12/30/2016

MGoPoints: 1985

Lil boy blue

December 5th, 2017 at 1:08 AM ^

Lost Championship game to a team that cheated and then made it to Elite 8 following year. Last time we made it that far in the tournament for consecutive years .... 1992-1993 but those wins aren't recognized by the NCAA. Those are the only 2 times in UM history. He's made it to the tournament with UM more than he hasn't and put the program back to National relevance for really the first time since Fischer. I prefer this formula over the previous 25 years

Joined: 12/30/2016

MGoPoints: 1985

mgoO

December 4th, 2017 at 9:15 PM ^

I remember when the season ended after losing to OSU in hoops last year too.  We aren't a great team but that's what happens when you lose 3 of your top 4 guys.  There's enough talent to get to the dance and win a game or two.  Next year's class will be special.

Joined: 10/11/2010

MGoPoints: 847

goblue16

December 4th, 2017 at 10:02 PM ^

His record against MSU is 7-10 the OSU of college basketball. Ya I’ll take that considering where we were before him. When it comes to OSU your right but they haven’t had better teams we just seem to lose to them for some reason that has nothing to do with talent. And if harbaugh is 7-10 against OSU in his 17th year I’d say that’s a success. That would put him at 7-7 in his last 14

Joined: 03/28/2010

MGoPoints: 17468

goblue16

December 4th, 2017 at 10:03 PM ^

Michigan fans make no sense in this regard and I agree with you but this is irrelevant to this topic we should judge beilein based on beilein. I just don’t understand how harbaugh is defended by same Michigan fans who call for beilein job

Joined: 03/28/2010

MGoPoints: 17468

goblue16

December 4th, 2017 at 9:59 PM ^

Where do monkeys like you crawl out from? A regular season loss to OSU in b-ball and your calling for the mans job. The guy who has done more for Michigan basketball then any other coach in their history. I’m sure you will be the guy that runs back to him when we win a big game. Losers like you make me sick

Joined: 03/28/2010

MGoPoints: 17468

HireWayne

December 4th, 2017 at 9:21 PM ^

Is David Dejulius any good?  He's listed at 6'1" which makes me think he's really around 5'10".  Why does Beilein keep recruiting short point guards? 

Joined: 09/30/2016

MGoPoints: 5111

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

December 4th, 2017 at 9:29 PM ^

leadership. Forget Coach B's awful substitutions and nonsensical timeouts, we lack a leader on the floor who can say "enough" and just buckle down on both ends to stop the bleeding. Rudderless ship in choppy waters.

Joined: 11/01/2012

MGoPoints: 18049

HailHail47

December 4th, 2017 at 9:42 PM ^

I was fuming a little bit ago. After an hour of calm breathing or so, I feel better. 1. I am thankful we have Beilein. There is no one I'd rather have as our coach. 2. That was not his best coached game, or the team's best effort. 3. I trust that we will get better as the year goes on. Beilein has a proven record. 4. We have a big game against UCLA on Saturday at Crisler. Show up and support the team. All our goals are still in front of us. Go Blue!

Joined: 10/07/2017

MGoPoints: 5305

goblue16

December 4th, 2017 at 10:05 PM ^

Exactly these losers need to shut up this happens every single year why won’t these morons learn. The team will improve they have done that every year for the past 10 years except 2009 and 2015. 2015 was plagued by injuries so I’ll give that a pass

Joined: 03/28/2010

MGoPoints: 17468

WindyCityBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 10:11 PM ^

Getting better as the year goes on is naturally progression that the vast majority of teams go through.  Its a function of more coaching, reps, etc.

I find it funny that Michigan fans now think we are unique in this way.  In that we are one of the few teams that improves as the year goes on.  smh!

OSU's bball program is limbo with some sub-par recruting and a brand new coach.  Yet, they figured out how to get their shit together in a matter of a few games.  Why does it take us so long?

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 40753

WindyCityBlue

December 5th, 2017 at 11:10 AM ^

First off, Amaker and Ellerbe are not average Michigan coaches (they are below average coaches).  Look back at the accomplishments of Fisher, Frieder and Orr.    

Second, why are you comparing JB to Amaker and Ellerbe?  No one is debating he is better than those two.  How about we compare JB to better coaches, like Bo Ryan and Tom Izzo. 

Third, why are we comparing JB to things in the past?  The success (or lack thereof) of Amaker and/or Ellerbe have no bearing on how successful JB can be. 

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 40753