Hoke vs. RR recruiting (Rivals data only)
I saw this on the Rivals message board and thought it would piss some people off this morning. Debate away!
Hoke current 1st full class:
0 5-star recruits
10 4-star recruits
10 3-star recruits
AVG Star rating: 3.5
R-Rod's 1st full class:
1 5-star recruits
13 4-star recruits
8 3-star recruits
AVG Star rating: 3.68
Hoke 1st partial class:
0 5-star recruits
6 4-star recruits
13 3-star recruits
1 2-star recruit
AVG Star rating: 3.2
R-Rod 1st Partial Class
0 5-star recruits
17 4-star recruits
6 3-star recruits
1 2-star recruit
AVG Star rating: 3.66
I know people love to bash RR and rub a Hoke tummy, but the numbers seem to tell a different tale about the recruiting prowess of the loveable Hok-e bear.
My purpose was to show that the Hoke recruiting love may be a tad over the top.
My purpose here was to comment and enlighten with facts.
I am glad you have an approach to comment on a blog and that ours are worlds apart.
If I had an approach to comment on a blog I would probably just end it all.
According to 2 or 3 services, we currently have the best recruiting class in the nation. RR was a good recruiter, but people have reason to be excited. Why do they have to tone it down? Considering how few wins we had over the last three years, and the fact that we have a new coach, it's exciting.
an approach to comment on a blog. Soon.
Dudeness, let it the fuck go. You must have some kind of fucking psychological disorder or something. I wanted to see Rich for another year, but he's gone for the love of God. He's gone and Hoke has done everything right so far. Now can you give they guy a damn chance?
No. Yes. Thanks for sharing. I would debate that. Sure.
RR had no qualms about recruiting players with criminal backgrounds who would not be accepted (Dorsey) or soon be gone (Cissoko, Feagin). Or guys who were so questionable academically they could not get into school or quickly failed out of school (too many to list). So by focusing only on the number of recruiting stars handed it out is only part of the story -- the part that ends up not mattering when 1/3 of the class can't even make it through one year.
That's the problem with all these people who praise RR's recruiting. He was great at attracting talent, the kind that ends up not helping the team win because the talent can't stay on the team.
I've been very impressed with Hoke's emphasis on recruiting highly rated players who also check out in terms of strong upbringing, high character and being serious students who think getting a degree matters in life. That increases the chances that these guys will be in the program for a full 4-5 years, which is what it takes to win.
To me, the kind of analysis done here is exactly what's wrong with how fans rate recruiting classes. They only see the stars next to the names as the players come in, and they just gloss over the fact that four-star players who are no longer on the team don't help at all. RR excelled in recruiting those guys. And the one five-star guy he recruited (Will Campbell) has been wasted for two years as they switched him back and forth from their schizophrenic, laughable defense to being buried on the depth chart on the O-line.
Sorry, not too impressed with RR's recruiting prowess.
RR was supposed to see into the future with re: to Feagin and Cissoko?
That's amazing.
The rest of your post is most likely equally stupid. Sorry I didn't make it past the first line.
People are idiots about RR, but you aren't going to turn anyone dude. Letting it go will save yourself so much work.
I am not trying to turn anyone. RR is not going to coach Michigan again. I am trying to remind people that he wasn't the devils scrotum. he was and still is a great football coach and i think he deserves respect from our "fans." And so do the current (tiny LOL!) players.
No, he was and is a great offensive mind. There's a difference between that and a great coach.
His skillset was not conducive to being the head coach of a program with a high media profile (crying, not talking in code, etc.) or that which has fans with short patience (making us wait to see anything other than a grossly half-assed scheming/staffing of our defense) and attitude issues (of which Michigan is certainly guilty in spades).
Actually, with Feagin it would have been to look into the past. Same for Dorsey. With Cissoko, it is about evaluating character -- that's the point of the post. Hoke values it, RR didn't. Anyone who can't see the high failure rate he posted in keeping players in school is a fool. You have no facts, so you just make stupid sarcastic responses.
Cissoko was a CARR recruit, smart guy. Carr also brought players here who didn't have the cleanest rap sheets in the world (Marques Slocum, for example) but their troubles were never documented in six-page Freep features.
In short, you come off as a huge snob here. Go to hell.
I don't think Slocum had a rap sheet, he just had extremely sub-par academic records. Other than Kelly Baraka, I can't think of a Carr guy, off the top of my head, who had legal issues prior to arriving at Michigan.
once sitting on a mountain of negative points and not allowed to start threads?
What happened to that?
I always believed that Rich's first class was really strong, just like Hoke's. Unfortunately, things changed when people transfered (Tate, Vlad), got lazy (Justin Turner), didn't pan out (Will Campbell, Fitz Toussaint, Je'Ron Stokes, etc.), or were injured (Teric Jones, Mike Jones).
They both had great first classes, but Rich's didn't pan out so well in the end (and the same could happen to Hoke for all we know). I think most of the praise for Brady Hoke right now is because RichRod's last two classes, especially the last one, were relatively weak with people barely visiting at all.
Don't forget LaLota. The class of 2009 has epic bust written all over it, which is what makes this such a ridiculous topic since it relies totally on years-old data that we already know missed the mark more often than not.
The chances that the class of 2012 flames out like that are extremely low to say the least.
didn't pan out (Will Campbell, Fitz Toussaint, Je'Ron Stokes, etc.)
Didn't pan out?!? Fitz is a sophomore!
Give me a list of good college football running backs who played that little their first two years in the program and we'll talk.
And yes, injuries ARE relevant to that discussion.
Ronnie Brown
Ron Dayne
Ron Dayne ran for more yards as a freshman (1,863) than he did in any other of his seasons at Wisconsin, you dumbass. Kind of hard to become the all-time leading rusher in NCAA history with a slow start, no?
Just like with the Tigers, you have no earthly idea what you're talking about and you are out of your league here.
also, Ronnie Brown's highest yardage season was as a sophomore.
Ron Dayne, eh? I'm starting to think maybe it wasn't just U-M that you started following three years ago. This hasn't been a good thread for you, dude.
BTW, enjoyed your recent appearance on Jeopardy...
Brandon Minor was pretty dominant when he finally got into the game halfway through his junior year...
Minor was Mike Hart's main backup his first two seasons and had a couple 100-yard games under his belt by that time.
Right, but he was also a backup to McGuffie and Shaw when he blew up. Writing off Toussaintm, a redshirt sophomore who has been injured his entire career, seems premature.
Toussaint is actually last when it comes to scholarship runningbacks, with Shaw, Hopkins, Cox and Smith all ahead of him. He could have a break out season, but I doubt it with injuries and just better players in front of him. As a top 250 player according to Rivals (just looked at scout, he's the 49th running back there), you expect him to be at least in the top group come junior year. He's not. He could contribute, but he hasn't so far. I have nothing against the kid, he's playing college football and I'm sitting at home. In the end though, he hasn't made an impact.
My 2 cents.
What tells you he's last? He was practicing with the ones before his injury last year, then he started the spring game this year. Also, he redshirted as a freshman due to injury and had approximately half a season to make an impact while recovering from a knee injury last year.
While he could be a contributer, he isn't quite the 4 star talent and all-purpose back that Fred Jackson made him out to be (even though he does it with everyone... Fitz still hasn't contributed). I also named Will Campbell in there and he's a starter, but he hasn't live up to his recruiting hype currently, and most likely those players never will unfortunately.
A few things this is missing is 1. how many RR recruits actually enrolled in school as comparred to Hoke's.
2. how many completed their first year on campus
The knock on RR recruiting was'nt that he could'nt recruit talent , he could'nt recruit talent that had good enough grades to enroll at Michigan. There was also the whole ignoring the defense both in coaching and recruiting.
Give hoke 2-3 years then do your post and we can REALLY compare the 2 coaches recruiting
I'm pretty sure Will Campbell and Marvin Robinson were recruited by Lloyd Carr (I think Campbell actually committed to LC when he was a sophomore). Not that RR shouldn't get any credit for holding on to them, but the numbers don't tell the whole story.
That has no relevance on anything.
Campbell re-committed and signed with Rodriguez and MRob wasn't part of any of the four classes that were discussed.
No amount of bitter ex-girlfriend-style whining on your part will bring Rich Rodriguez back. You're going to have to deal. Or take another hiatus.
Serious question for the long time mgobloggers - What do you need to do to get banned around here? Is Dudeness not banned because his trolling and juvenille combativeness aligns with the thinking of this site's proprietor? Not that mgopoints matter to me in the slightest (although I guess I am curious how the new moderation system works), but I find it humorous that I'm in Bolivia because of a single post about RR that the mods penalized me for back in March-ish, but that Dudeness' tired act still hasn't warranted any action....
Was the post you were penalized for pro- or anti-RR?
You'd probably characterize it as anti RR - it mainly questioned the visitors to this site who blindly followed along with the Cook company line when it came to FEI, etc. So I took a shot at Brian's methods and more specifically his cadre of People's Temple loyalists......don't piss off the proprietor I guess.....but seriously, is that worse than the meltdown that Dudeness has been having?
Then that makes sense to me. Cook & Co are outwardly pro-RR and insidiously anti-Hoke. Dudeness tows the company line. I am not saying he deserves banning for this thread, or would otherwise be banned if this thread were anti-Hoke, but it is a potentially important difference.
Beyond that, it's worth keeping in mind that the vast majority of this site was squarely aligned with Brian and the OP for a long time. Many have now come to see the light and the imaginary points given to comments here reveal the same.
Yeah, I guess that's what I figured.... Would be nice if we could have a forum where there was consistency in enforcement amongst the trolls regardless of what side of an issue they may support.
At the least, it'd be nice if the upvoting/downvoting actually affected a poster's point total (which it did before the board malware problem last winter). Every time His Dudeness throws a tantrum, he gets downvoted, but it doesn't affect his point total. Otherwise he'd have lost a ton of points by now.
The weird thing is that Brian didn't even seem all that pro-RR for most of his tenure. If I'm not mistaken, the whole "dong punch" meme started when Brian called attention to one of our players punching an Illinois player in the crotch (and not getting punished by RR). The "When can we fire this guy already?" line was from him, too. But then all of sudden, when RR's firing became a real possibility, he became a hardcore backer of his. And somehow Hoke rubs him the wrong way.
This is the way I remember it also. I remember getting annoyed early with Brian when he was quick to criticize RR. But I think the change came with Denard's success. My guess is that the board also became much more successful then also - as Denard took Michigan back into the spotlight, Mgoblog tagged along.
It seems a combination of a penchant for criticizing Michigan's coach (didn't he pen something really critical of Carr - but after he retired?), and associating the site's success, consciously or subconsciously, with RR + Denard, not yet Hoke + Denard. Thus, maybe he will come around, if we have success this year. But what does that say about his fandom?
Yes. There's absolutely no reason for such utter trolling to not get banned except he's the evil alter ego of the site's views. It's completely and utterly hypocritical.
And the first thing he does is wonder how he can piss off a lot of people must have a very small penis.
the butthurt is strong with the OP.
Okay, so I've read all the comments, and I've come to the conclusion that His Dudeness just ain't that bright -- maybe we should stop ganging up on him so much, and just let his posts idle.