Donate to help fund Women's Hockey, Team 28
i don't understand why women's hockey is still a club sport at U of M, but it is.
the outstanding women athletes that wear the M jersey need dough - for all sorts of stuff to fund them but right now they're asking for help to fund travel to games. and it's only $15,000!
they deserve our support for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is that they're really good. AND ohio state, minnesota, and wisconsin have won most of the ncaa championships (14 out of 22, all-time). time to knock them off their perches.
go here to find out more, and to give them money. come on, you know you'll be cheering for them when they're winning championships.
(and if the link above doesn't work, hit this one: https://maizeraise.umich.edu/o/university-of-michigan/i/maizeraise/s/university-of-michigan-womens-hockey-2023)
December 17th, 2023 at 4:10 PM ^
Just make it varsity like OSU, PSU, Wisconsin, and Minnesota
December 17th, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
When considering options for charitable contributions this time of year, and knowing what the athletic department brings in from the well publicized TV deal alone, I think iwill probably support some other causes more needy than this one.
December 17th, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^
AFAIK the athletic department does not subsidize the women's hockey CLUB team. It's not a varsity sport. Which is obnoxious but that's another discussion. They pay their own way, paying for ice time, gear, travel, etc.
Totally understandable if you're not interested in supporting, but this is meaningfully different than supporting the athletic program.
December 17th, 2023 at 5:10 PM ^
The athletic department does not fund club sports. Club sport athletes have to pay their own way and fundraise in order to play. Uniforms, equipment, everything. That’s kinda the entire premise behind club sports.
December 17th, 2023 at 5:21 PM ^
you are, of course, welcome to do as you see fit.
i would only say that, while the university does offer some support through the rec sports department, that support is not nearly enough to cover all costs, certainly not to the level of a sport supported at the varsity level.
December 17th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^
There is no reason why Michigan shouldn't make women's hockey a varsity sport.
December 17th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
There are actually a lot of logistical issues that go into it. Yost really isn’t compatible for hosting two varsity level programs, with the Men’s locker room upstairs being the only real locker room. Visiting teams get dressed behind a curtain at the opposite end of the arena.
There are four dressing rooms below the Michigan one, but they’re so small they’re unusable. I’ve played a few men’s league games there and it was nearly too small for our 11 man team. On gameday, one of them is used for officials, one for media, and the others are only used if the youth teams play at intermission.
December 18th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
Build a women’s ice arena. Minnesota has had the beautiful 3400 seat Ridder arena since 2002. Time for Michigan to do the same and make women’s hockey a varsity sport.
December 18th, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
But that adds an entirely different element to adding a sport that doesn’t make any money.
Like it or not, there is no reason for Michigan to add women’s hockey other than fans wanting them to. They don’t need the scholarships to remain Title IX compliant.
Now you’re talking about either building a brand new arena or a massive renovation to Yost, both projects would be AT LEAST in the upper 8 figures, all for a sport we don’t need and would be a financial drain on the athletic department. All because fans think it would be cool to have a team.
December 17th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
And a common sense interpretation of Title IX suggests that legally they should do this. Michigan has a men’s varsity team. Michigan does not have a women’s varsity team even though women play hockey. Seems one team is being denied the benefit of varsity status based on sex.
December 17th, 2023 at 5:46 PM ^
That’s not at all what Title IX refers to…
December 17th, 2023 at 6:34 PM ^
Title IX
The U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) enforces, among other statutes, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972. Title IX protects people from discrimination based on sex in education programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance. Title IX states:
No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
The interpretation of that is:
Under Title IX, an educational institution must provide male and female athletes with equal access to financial aid. This means that funds allocated to athletic scholarships must be proportionate to the participation of male and female athletes. In other words, if a university allocates $500,000 to athletic scholarships, and 45 percent of its athletes are female, it must allocate $225,000 of that amount to female athletes.
So UofM is gaming the system by providing scholarships to less expensive women’s sports. But the fact remains, UofM has both male and female hockey teams. The female team does not get the same treatment as the male team. That is discrimination and it is wrong.
December 17th, 2023 at 7:29 PM ^
You are not quite reading/interpreting this correctly. If UM had Women's hockey, and they did not get the same treatment as the men's team, that would be wrong, and against Title IX. But they do not have women's ice hockey, and do not have to field a program(according to Title IX), as long as they provide a proportionally equal number of scholarships/money across the entire athletic department.
Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play.
UM fields women's teams in Field Hockey, Rowing, Volleyball, and Water Polo that do not have men's equivalents. UM fields men's teams in Football, Ice Hockey and Wrestling. Without being privy to all of the math here, if UM added women's hockey, it would likely have to add a men's sport or drop one to stay under guidelines.
At previous times, when the Athletic Department needed to add women's sports/scholarships, they selected Water Polo and Lacrosse instead. Polo because its a lot cheaper to run than hockey, and lax because Stephen Ross footed the bill for lax facilities.
December 17th, 2023 at 9:02 PM ^
I know what it says and I know how it is interpreted. Go back to my original comment, common sense suggests that if you offer one sport to men, and women also play that sport, and you don’t provide them with equal opportunity (a women’s hockey team, not a women’s rowing team,) that’s discrimination by definition.
You can rationalize it however you want, it’s still unequal treatment based on sex. Ask those women athletes in the photo if they want to join the rowing team, and try explaining to them that they are treated as “less than” the men because their sport is more expensive than rowing.
December 17th, 2023 at 10:05 PM ^
I'm not rationalizing things, I'm explaining the Title IX implications, which you are citing wrongly.
There is no "common sense" interpretation of Title IX, there is just the interpretation.
December 18th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
If you wanna start playing that game then why doesn't Michigan have varsity men's volleyball? It's never 1:1 like that
December 18th, 2023 at 5:38 AM ^
Once again, that’s absolutely not how Title IX works. I don’t know where you’re seeing that in what you’ve cited.
Under Title IX, an educational institution must provide male and female athletes with equal access to financial aid.
This does not mean they have to provide scholarships to the same sport. How would that even be possible within the scope of football? It just means that the total amount of scholarship money has to be proportional across ALL varsity sports.
You’re really reaching here and warping the intent of Title IX.
December 21st, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
Good explanation.
How are we the "leaders and the best" when Ohio St has a women's NCAA D1 hockey team and Michigan has no plans to invest in women's hockey beyond letting them do what they want at a club level. It's unfortunate that the conversation isn't about how we can be the best in what we do and grow our programs instead of following the law to support our football program.
December 17th, 2023 at 7:31 PM ^
You are not interpreting Title IX correctly and making an argument that isnt one that Title IX covers.
To put it another way...
The U of M is not discriminating against the Michigan Women's Hockey team, because there is not one to discriminate against. And as long as UM has proportionally equivalent opportunities across the athletic department for women, they are not violating Title IX.
However, if UM started a varsity women's hockey program, and then didnt provide them with scholarships, or didnt give them a trainer, or gave them shitty ice time or improper locker rooms or equipment, they would be discriminating against them and running afoul of Title IX. Coincidentally, if they did start a women's team and gave them everything they needed, they would be violating Title IX if this in turn made the math across the department disproportionate between the sexes.
And the answer to that isnt just "well give all of the women's teams more scholarships" since all of these sports are capped at the amount of scholarship equivalents they can provide by the NCAA.
December 17th, 2023 at 4:56 PM ^
Make me the AD and the first thing I’d do is make Women’s hockey a varsity sport!
1. Women’s Hockey to varsity level.
2. Indoor baseball and softball fields, with retractable roof!
3. Sign Harbaugh even if he writes his own contract!
4. Move the soccer field closer to campus.
5. Share revenue with all student athletes.
6. Hire a PR firm to investigate every school in the Big Ten that agreed and bitched to have Harbaugh suspended.
December 18th, 2023 at 5:36 AM ^
Sorry Brady, we already tried you out and things didn't end well. Why don't you go back and enjoy your sunny retirement?
December 18th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
Hey now, not looking to coach, looking to improve the Athlete department as a whole!
December 17th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
Done thanks for sharing. Played club rugby at Wyoming, and the hockey team was also club there.
No reason womens hockey is a club sport @ Michigan - especially when they're 9-0 good.
December 17th, 2023 at 8:13 PM ^
It's because of a few reasons as I understand it.
- Title IX accounting. Hockey has 25 counters and 18 scholarship equivalents. Michigan could reduce its number of rowers but finding scholarships is tough because 18 is a lot in scholarship world. They can't really add men's scholarships because they already sponsor teams in 14/15 sports, and the 15th, Rifle, only has a few scholarships with very little interest from the school. It seems backwards for Title IX rules to prevent adding a women's sport, but it's not really designed for a school that wants to compete in every women's sport.
- Yost Ice Arena doesn't have the locker room space. Right now the home team's lockers are down a flight of stairs and the road team has some curtains separating them from the concourse. There are some other tiny dressing rooms on a lower level that can't accommodate 10 people let alone 25. It's bad enough to have men's teams making do, but this wouldn't fly for women's hockey.
December 18th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
i love you, seth, but...
first of all, 18 scholarships may be "a lot in scholarship world" at most universities, but not this one. one reason we're all in on expanding this stupid (no longer a) conference is because we get this giant pile of money, and ain't it great? fine. get the money and use it for what it's supposedly for, which is SUPPORTING COLLEGE ATHLETICS. you do NOT get to claim poverty, not in this era.
the second point is related. "we don't have the locker facilities" is really weak. again - we've got the money. hire an architect, hire a GC, start a capital campaign. throw some of that sweet, sweet TV money at the problem and get it done. we did it at crisler, do it at yost. it's not that complicated.
December 18th, 2023 at 3:40 PM ^
The reason we, well the university, don’t get to claim poverty is precisely because they’re generally pretty smart with their money.
The locker room situation at Yost isn’t as simple as knocking out a wall here or there. Not only would the Michigan women need their own locker room, they would also have to put in locker rooms for the visiting women’s, and while they’re at it would also put in visiting men’s lockers. The building itself simply isn’t built to host two hockey programs.
So you’re talking about the University pumping a bunch of money into the arena and program start up… for what? Women’s hockey doesn’t make any money, and we don’t need the scholarships to be Title IX compliant. Outside of fans wanting it, what reason is there to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to start a varsity women’s hockey program?
December 18th, 2023 at 4:49 PM ^
The reason we, well the university, don’t get to claim poverty is precisely because they’re generally pretty smart with their money.
wait, we're "smart with the money?" how many upgrades to the facilities of multiple sports have we done over the last decade or so? is it all of them, or most of them? so now we're going to be "smart with the money," with more money flowing into the department every year? we found the money to fund new lacrosse programs. we found 168 MILLION DOLLARS to build the ross athletic campus, for lacrosse, rowing, track, and lord knows what else. and that's great! our kids deserve the best. but shutting off the spigot now for no other reasons than "time for some austerity up in here" is weak sauce.
The locker room situation at Yost isn’t as simple as knocking out a wall here or there. Not only would the Michigan women need their own locker room, they would also have to put in locker rooms for the visiting women’s, and while they’re at it would also put in visiting men’s lockers. The building itself simply isn’t built to host two hockey programs.
did i suggest it was a simple project? i did not. what i did suggest is that there's a solution. any sports facilities architect in the country would absolutely leap at the chance to start working on a master plan to make it work. i'm an architect by profession. i could give the department half a dozen firms (not mine) to talk to by 5pm today.
So you’re talking about the University pumping a bunch of money into the arena and program start up… for what? Women’s hockey doesn’t make any money, and we don’t need the scholarships to be Title IX compliant. Outside of fans wanting it, what reason is there to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to start a varsity women’s hockey program?
what reason? because there IS interest. and, not to put too fine a point on it, but it's why the athletic department actually exists. we didn't start the lacrosse programs as some sort of profit centers. we started them because there was interest, and their existence fit with the larger missions of the athletic department in the first place.
to be more specific, the department's mission statement starts thusly: "michigan athletics’ primary goal is to provide the best student-athlete experience in the nation." obviously, that can be interpreted any number of ways, but expanding the base of scholarship athletes competing for ncaa championships, would seem to align directly with that mission.
December 18th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
we found 168 MILLION DOLLARS to build the ross athletic campus, for lacrosse, rowing, track, and lord knows what else.
I strongly suggest you research where the funding for this came from. Hint: there’s a reason it’s called the Ross Athletic Campus. If some super donor chimes in and offers to foot the bill, that may change things. Good luck finding a donor to fund women’s hockey though.
did i suggest it was a simple project? i did not. what i did suggest is that there's a solution
And what I suggested in response is that the solution is a MASSIVE project, especially from a funding standpoint, in addition to the startup cost of a program. It’s not a cost-efficient endeavor for the university to undertake on its own. A couple fans saying “hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we did this?” Doesn’t change this fact.
December 19th, 2023 at 5:22 AM ^
y'all, are talking about the inadequate locker facilities for the men’s program, too. you think solving that - which will certainly happen, at some point - won’t be expensive? there’s no reason that eventual solution couldn’t also address the supposedly unsolvable problem of women’s facilities. it should. plus you’d get better lockers for you and your beer league buddies, or whatever. you might have to share ice time with some girls, though.
i’m well aware how the ross campus got funded. $100 million from ross, the rest from other donors and the athletic department. and - AGAIN - not a single program that, as you keep saying, “makes money” in the bunch. not one.
the athletic department funds these programs because that’s why the athletic program exists in the first place. women’s hockey is no different from any other non-revenue sport. period.
December 19th, 2023 at 5:45 AM ^
you think solving that - which will certainly happen, at some point - won’t be expensive?
And you’d think maybe there’s a reason that the arena has hosted hockey for 50+ years and to this day that locker room issue hasn’t been addressed…
i’m well aware how the ross campus got funded. $100 million from ross, the rest from other donors and the athletic department
“Funding was provided entirely by athletic donor resources and gifts, including a $100 million gift from Stephen M. Ross.”
none of that money came from the athletic department actually.
the athletic department funds these programs because that’s why the athletic program exists in the first place. women’s hockey is no different from any other non-revenue sport. period.
Except for the part where it’s the department’s job to maintain a balanced budget and the funding simply isn’t there to undertake a 9-figure project for another program that is a financial drain on the department. Seems like pretty critical difference there.
December 19th, 2023 at 9:35 AM ^
you don't think women's hockey should get to varsity level, fine. whatever.
i personally can't think of a better use of this annual pile of tv blood money than upgrading facilities and funding non-revenue sports.
which includes men's hockey, by the way.
December 17th, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
Both of my sons attended Michigan Hockey Camp at Yost. They both had coaches front the men’s team and from the women’s club team. Both groups were fantastic, happy to support the women’s team. Go Blue in everything.
December 17th, 2023 at 9:07 PM ^
Thanks for the heads up, just donated. Did this last year too, but it was from either a link on here or a random FB post. Given all the time and money we spend at Yost (place sells out), they need to push this there, like a table or even just a flyer with a QR code.
December 17th, 2023 at 9:15 PM ^
Happy to help support these fine young ladies. Go Blue!!!
December 19th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
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