Bye Week fodder: fascinating article on Tom Herman in the NYT

Submitted by Wendyk5 on October 15th, 2016 at 9:22 AM

How coaches motivate their players has been discussed here many times, but this is a new angle. I'm curious to see how MGo'ers respond to this. Physical affection is commonplace in some families, but absent in others, especially with boys. I personally think it's great, and an excellent way to teach the young men who didn't have male role models growing up how to show affection, particularly if they become fathers.…



October 15th, 2016 at 9:35 AM ^

Poor Brady Hoke.  He failed as a head coach at Michgian  and now Oregon is going down in flames around him.  He does everything else well, but he just can't win in a major college.  Oregon's demise is not his fault, but it will be seen that way.

I hope he finds an HC job at a MAC school and decides to be a lifer instead of using it as a stepping stone again.  He has a lot of great qualities and genuinely cares about his young men.  

I look forward to the day that he can walk back into Michigan Stadium and be acknowledged as "one of the guys" again.  He contributed a lot to the program as an assistant.  It's not his fault that his "dream job" happened to be his threshold for the "Peter Principle."


October 15th, 2016 at 1:18 PM ^

He won big at Michigan from 1995-2002.

It's premature to say he can't succeed at the P5 level as a DC, there isn't enough data. But he's clearly damaged goods at this time. At this point, his best career move is probably to take a HC position at a lower level school and stay there a while before even thinking about another P5 job. (He could get a P5 job as a position coach today, but I can't imagine him finding satisfaction in that).


October 15th, 2016 at 10:21 AM ^

a notion of masculinity that says boys and men are only driven by the desire for competition and autonomy,” said Niobe Way, a psychology professor at New York University. “All the research — not just mine — emphasizes that humans are actually not driven by competition and autonomy. What we’re driven by is the desire to be in connected communities.”

Fenrir the Righteous

October 15th, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^

no politics :)

But my real comment is that I've been thinking about using shock collars for my dogs when we're deep in the woods, and the whole love vs. hate / inclusion vs. exclusion motivation stuff is really interesting to me. Also relates back to the Brian Kelly stuff on the board lately (and always).

The players all gave funny comments, good fluff for the team/coach.


October 15th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^

Better a kiss on the cheek than getting thrown under the bus at a press conference or humiliated on national television by your coach (ahem, Brian Kelly).


October 15th, 2016 at 2:10 PM ^

is a bit much. a good hug shows affection just as well. don't let society dictate what is right if it conflicts with your core values.


October 15th, 2016 at 3:31 PM ^

Can't read the article because I've used my 10/10 NYT articles for the month, but it's been interesting to see the conversation about the shifting norms of social physical contact.  

I (a guy) generally hug both guy and girl friends as does everyone else I know, but when I went to a wedding of two friends, when they were greeting the guests I kissed the bride on the cheek but not the groom because those were social norms I observed growing up.  (The bride being much prettier than the groom didn't hurt)

It occurs to me that it's heteronormative but also within bounds of accepted behavior.  It also seems like those bounds have shifted somewhat as we've become more open.  Hugging between guys does seem more commonplace as I've gotten older.  

You can also see how those norms evolve and shift in other parts of the world.  For instance, it's also common to see men in Arab countries holding hands in rural areas - it's not a gay thing but a show of friendship, however, that tends to happen less in urban areas since they are more Westernized and have absorbed Western sensibilities.

Tom Herman kissing his players is a little unusual to me but I would say it's within the realm of not-creepy.  One time at a party a slobbering drunk and hetero guy friend was "I WUV YOUU MAN' and smooched me on the cheek which was a little surprising but the intent was nothing but benign so I didn't care.

Generally, though, open-mouthed tongue-kissing from people who aren't your spouse and everything Brian Kelly does should not be tolerated by anyone.