Arguing against invoking JH’s salary in your complaint
If you oppose Harbaugh, fine. I may not oppose him to your extent of recommending another coaching transition (because a dice roll on the offseason carousel probably ends up worse, IMO), but I don’t fully hate the take.
That said: Stop bringing up the salary. It’s entirely irrelevant. The salary is neither based on a specific output nor does it promise one. The salary is wholly about market value. Except that it grows over time, for any one year it is a relatively fixed and predictable variable — and for our sake and the attractiveness of the job, it should be.
Arguing against this means you are both swiping at ghosts and counter-productively hoping that the position is less attractive for the next guy...be it few or 10+ years from now.
/tl;dr — self-defeating, reductive arguments are a bore
October 31st, 2020 at 2:05 PM ^
TLDR
Bottom line both coaches are overpaid for what they produce, Harbaugh coaches scared in nearly every big game and I dont get it
October 31st, 2020 at 2:05 PM ^
No. He gets paid a fuckload of money for better results than losing 4 games a year. He delivered on that on that twice by losing 3 games a year.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
That he’s the coach at Michigan is what brings the expectations. The salary is just ... ancillary and automatic no matter what.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:07 PM ^
Salary is relevant because it speaks to the talent pool you have to fish in to replace him. If UM had 3mil a year to replace the guy, maybe you keep him and hope he turns the corner. With 9 mil, it increases your likelihood of hitting on a replacement.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:12 PM ^
That’s a good point. But this is not the common argument. The common argument is to either reduce his salary (less common) or fire him because of return on investment, specifically. Your point goes in a different direction, arguing that when he gets fired, we’ll be glad his salary was this high in the first place and in that sense, sure, it’s technically relevant.
I see nothing to quibble with there.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:19 PM ^
Yeah, his salary tends to be an easy target.
His ROI has been very solid. He has stabilized the program and has been worth every penny. I just don't think he is the coach to take a program over the hump in the modern game. He has tried but his inner being will always revert back to what he knows best.
Last straw for me was not moving on from Brown after OSU last year. He had the chance to improve, he didn't.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:37 PM ^
Amen.
November 1st, 2020 at 9:17 AM ^
So would you be okay with the results on the field if he were making $3 million instead?
Results are results. Whether they’re good enough or not really isnt contingent on how much money the guy is making. Which is kinda the point. We wouldn’t feel any better about not making it to Indy, not beating OSU, and losing yesterday if Harbaugh was paid less. Period. So the amount of money he makes is completely irrelevant and has no place in the conversation.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:08 PM ^
Fire him and take your chances on someone younger with a innovative mind ... we can easily win 9/10 games with most coaches
October 31st, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
Are you 12? Or do you lack a fucking memory?
October 31st, 2020 at 2:33 PM ^
Just because it didn’t work once doesn’t mean it will happen again.
October 31st, 2020 at 4:49 PM ^
Someone forgot about the 2014 season
October 31st, 2020 at 2:37 PM ^
I wish I could agree with that, but as the Hoke and Rodriguez years show, that's not true at all. There was one season with 9 wins or more and that was Hoke's first season out of 7 total for both coaches.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:46 PM ^
So nothing will get better and Harbaugh is the best Michigan will ever be able to do.
I bet there’s dozens of coaches that wouldn’t have removed Milton for the wildcat two plays in a row and therefore infinitely better.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:08 PM ^
For what he’s paid he needs to go... a “QB guru” that can’t produce a good QB fucking shame
October 31st, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
High salary comes with high expectations. Don't care if you're offended.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:13 PM ^
I’m not offended. Just pointing out that the salary is a correlate of expectations, not a driver of expectations.
Our expectations of Harbaugh are this high only because he’s the coach at this school. Coincidentally, being coach at this school also guarantees a maximally high market value.
I’m just asking that we have enough attention to nuance to draw those lines the right way.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:18 PM ^
How long you think osu keeps a coach with Harbaugh’s record? How much is Ryan Day making? Oh 3 million less than Harbaugh? But wouldn’t the salary for Day at OSU guarantee a higher salary?
October 31st, 2020 at 2:26 PM ^
Agree 100%. I would say thay future HOF coach Urban Meyer would have been fired if he went 0-5 against Michigan. It's unacceptable, especially when you're in the top 3 nationwide in compensation.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:27 PM ^
You’re conflating my position. If you fire an M coach, it should always be because they weren’t good enough for Michigan, not because they weren’t good enough for the money. That’s no different than at OSU.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:19 PM ^
Expectations? Year 6 to beat an MSU squad that is their worst team in a long time? His inability to get a QB has been frustrating.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:28 PM ^
I don’t disagree with any of this. You complained without mentioning the salary. That’s literally my entire argument.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:29 PM ^
What?!? Milton is keeping Michigan in this game. Last I checked Milton wasn’t repeatedly getting burned playing corner, getting pushed around on the o-line, not getting penetration on the d-line. There’s plenty to be disappointed in today, Milton is no where near the top of the list so far.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
No shit. Miltons playing fine. The playcalling suck balls, but Miltons doing nothing wrong here.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
He’s playing fine, but has 17pts and is trailing in the 4th quarter. He doesn’t appear to have great touch on deep throws through these first 2 games.
Did you watch Taulia yesterday? Clemson’s back DJ today? They both led their teams back.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^
Oopsy
October 31st, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^
I believe there is a correlation between market value and.results,
October 31st, 2020 at 2:16 PM ^
Yes but it’s a bad faith argument to pretend this is a chicken/egg situation. It’s not. Being Michigan with its history, fan base and money machine *obviously* precedes its position in the market (its brand power) in 2020.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:46 PM ^
So, why isn't Ryan Day getting paid more with its history, recent success, fan base, and money machine?
This is a dumb argument. Harbaugh is getting paid the money he makes because we expected Stanford/San Francisco results. Michigan doesn't NEED to pay it's coach $7MM+ a year just because. Ryan Day will get paid more when he proves he's worth it.
If you're a top 5 paid coach in the country, is it too much to expect top 5 results on occasion?
FWIW, I don't really care what Harbaugh makes; just pointing out your argument makes no sense.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
Unless the market contracts nationally, the next coach will make approximately this much or more. The negotiations can’t with a straight face begin at 1 or even 4 million.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
That doesn't respond to any of my points, and no, not necessarily. Depends on the coach. Harbaugh is not getting paid what he's getting paid just because he's coaching at Michigan. Yes, it's a factor, but his track record is a bigger factor.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
I didn’t address it because it’s a separate conversation. Yes, Harbaugh’s starting salary at Michigan was a function of both Michigan’s (relatively fixed) position in the market and his career before arriving here. That doesn’t undo my position. Because neither of those items is changeable nor is either pinned to his performance at Michigan. And this is predictable, common.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:17 PM ^
Not really. Starting salaries are a function of both positions in the market and career before showing up, but to suggest that it's more of market position rather than prior track record I believe defies common sense. Otherwise, Ryan Day would be getting paid a lot more at OSU, which has probably as good if not better of a position in the market given their recent success. Same for say, Tom Herman.
I do agree he has been disappointing. I think part of that is because what we expected when we got him, which was a top 5 coach. So we paid him like a top 5 coach. And we haven't gotten those results, which is why I think a lot of people bring up salary.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:19 PM ^
I was an early adopter of the "Fire Harbaugh" stance, but have never been a fan of the salary argument. I have been a fan of recruiting good players, designing good game plans around the players you have, developing said players, and preparing them for game day....Literally none of this happens with any regularity. Therefore, whether he is paid $15/h or $15mil per year, it is time for somebody else.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:20 PM ^
This is closer to my position.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^
Yep -- the money is not as relevant as the abject lack of performance.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:25 PM ^
I’m a “pussy” for not specifying your s/n here? Not sure if serious. If so, your post acts as if you were the one fan to have this take and that I should have remembered you for it.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:36 PM ^
Fair. I’m not wanting him to have a lesser salary. I’m wanting him to have a lesser job.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^
We lack discipline.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^
I hate my life
October 31st, 2020 at 2:50 PM ^
Being out coached by Mel Tucker. Let that sink in. I don’t give a shit about salary.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
Coherent, true, yes.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^
Yeah, the main argument should be that he’s not a good coach. Not top 15-20 at least.
People bring up salary because expectations come with it. If I’m paid to be the top 3 best CEO in the country and my performance doesn’t match it, of course that would be a talking point. But people should firstly be asking why I continue to suck.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:11 PM ^
Whoever’s calling these running plays that are going no dam where, needs to be fired today.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
Should be winning this game by 50 pts. Every rivalry game the other team cares more, unacceptable.
Keep running man coverage and beating Rutgers Don.
October 31st, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
I agree with you OP, its irrelevant to me how much Harbaugh is paid.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:00 PM ^
If I had enough points I'd neg the shit out of your post. Open up your eyes, slappy.
October 31st, 2020 at 3:02 PM ^
Never mind