Angelique covers "Big House Divided"

Submitted by wolverine1987 on October 23rd, 2009 at 7:58 AM

Angelique covers the Miles/RR/Carr/Leach issue again, and fairly as usual. Good quote from Andy Mignery about the necessity for all M supporters to for lack of a better phrase, be "all in."…

Also, sounds like Cissoko will see the field tomorrow, and RR had lunch with Carr and Martin yesterday. That should have been interesting.


Twisted Martini

October 23rd, 2009 at 8:16 AM ^

That Angelique was very close to both Lloyd and Bo. But her professionalism shows as she has been extremely fair with RichRod. She is the best beat writer out there bar none.


October 23rd, 2009 at 9:10 AM ^

Angelique still seems to love the program. Unlike many of the "old guard," she is giving RR a fair chance. And it is great that she acknowleged the frustration of many over Carr's silence.

It seems to me that Carr could put an end to all of the infighting with a simple "call for unity" speech. Since he is still getting paid for a rather cushy job, I really think it is incumbent upon him to do what is best for the University. All he would really have to do is to tell those who are upset that it does no good to sabotage the program, and to grow up and act like REAL MICHIGAN MEN. Bo would have done this in a heartbeat.

Carr's refusal to do so is why I think he is behind many of the "leaks" and much of the dissension in the athletic department. I'm sure part of him is still PO'd at RR for creating an offense that was responsible for some of his most painful losses at UM (NW x 2, The Horror, The Oregon Debacle, etc...) in the first place.

Carr is in no position to be silent and feign neutrality here. Basically, it boils down to an old but often true rabble-rousing phrase:

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

UM needs Carr to become part of the solution ASAP.


October 23rd, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^

I fully believe Carr is behind RR. While we (the obsessive fans on the boards) want Carr to speak up, do you really think that's what RR wants? The less Carr says, the more this is RR's program. If daddy has to rescue son, it isn't a good thing. If Carr speaks up, it will be perceived as weakness on the part of RR.

Actually, I think the announced retirement of Bill Martin proves this point. Carr (& Martin, & RR) knew that there would be speculation on who would be candidates for the position. It was reasonable, helpful, and not a threat to RR for Carr to publicly announce he was not a candidate for the position. In other words, it was a necessary announcement by Carr.

My guess is that over lunch, Martin and Carr & RR have a good laugh, and RR knows that Carr has his back. I can easily imagine him saying, "if you need me to speak up, just let me know."

There's one other part to this. Carr can only speak up so many times before it dilutes his effectiveness. By holding his tongue, and not saying anything now, it will only strengthen his position and voice if and when it is truly needed. Imagine that we had a 6-6 season, and some were calling for the head of RR on a platter. Or imagine that the Freep or Stapleton or others really had RR over a barrel and in a tenuous position. THAT would be the time for Carr to speak up, when he was really needed to support RR and hold the course. Until that time, it is just the kvetching of obsessive fandom.


October 23rd, 2009 at 1:26 PM ^

UM needs Carr to become part of the solution ASAP

Rodriguez is the solution, and he's just doing fine. Carr speaking out now would only undermine him. That would be a problem, not a solution.

You've certainly been no stranger to conspiracy theories in the past. This type of comment coming from you is not surprising. While I would like to respond more fully, because there is so much wrong in what you say, it's simply not worth further wasting my time on your imaginary collusion wrought from nothing more than conjecture about a man of few words opting to enjoy his retirement.

Watch out for those black helicopters.


October 23rd, 2009 at 8:29 AM ^

part of me doesn't like to see internal strife and dirty laundry aired in public like this. I wish it could just be resolved behind closed doors. On the other hand that doesn't seem to be happening and maybe this is exactly what is needed to kick everyone in the ass.

RR, Carr and Martin having lunch and Leach not calling back to get quoted both seem like good steps in the right direction.


October 23rd, 2009 at 9:15 AM ^

Maybe, at that lunch, Lloyd gave Rich a few tidbits on ol Joe Pa. Lloyd did own him, and this win would be a huge step forward for the program. Of course I read all the bits on how the two, Rich & Lloyd, may not get along.....but what if they did? Lloyd may have just turned the table in our favor vs PSU this weekend.


October 23rd, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^

When she essentially states that the former players who wanted Miles don't support Rodriguez, she's simply not right. I do business with a former player under Bo who played with Miles, and he was one of those intensely disappointed that Les wasn't hired. Regardless, he's become a huge supporter of Rodriguez, and he says that many other alumni players of his generation are also supporters of RR. What Angelique doesn't seem to understand is that there is a divide among the different generation of UM alumni players regarding whether or not they're fans of Lloyd Carr or not. From what I gather in talking to this player, those who played for Carr love him, but many of those who preceded Carr seem to look on RR as a true continuation of Bo's legacy.

It's all unfortunate as hell, but I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of stuff goes on at all programs behind the scenes.

I know I generally criticize those who claim to know inside people without naming names, but in this case I have to do exactly that, since I can't speak for this player. He's got to do that himself if he chooses to. Neg me all you want.


October 23rd, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^

problem is that the free press thinks its a tabloid now instead of a paper. they are doing whatever it takes to sell papers now, and it all started with kwame scandal. they also think because of the FIOA that they have the right to drudge up any skeltons they can find about anyone or anything.

i used to read the free press every day because i was able to find out most info about u of m sports, until i found this blog. then all of a sudden after the new year free press went off of the deep end and i was reading less and less every day and then fianlly stopped after what happened at the end of august.

the detroit news is playing "good cop" in this entire thing, with exception of terry foster. foster has become a complete ass hat in the last 6 months and i don't know if he is doing to keep his job at the news, trying to keep listeners for his and mikes show, or because he has been working with mike for so long now.

either way its not going to end unless rich rod closes up shop at schembechler hall, until that happens we are going to continue to have shit articles written.


October 23rd, 2009 at 9:49 AM ^

I believe the headline is overblown, and the reference to Miles supporters to be too much a generalization.

That said, the mention of Lloyd, Bill and Rich having lunch, and Lloyd advising Rich on how to beat Jo Pa is probably all we're goign to get from Lloyd on his support for the team.

I am in the camp of Lloyd publically speaking out would do a lot to stop the antics. However, we all know that Lloyd Carr would have much rather had a weekly root canal, than go talk to the press. Thus the off hand mention of the lunch. I would hope Lloyd is doing some behind the scenes "management" of the football family base as well.

It is interesting that at least some of Bo's players feel that Rich is the continuation of Bo's legacy more so than Lloyd Carr. Many of us have been arguing the comparison to when Bo took over since Rich came in. Then there is the run heavy option offense Bo ran up until '84. (We'll see more run heavy when Denard or Gardner get up to speed.)

Maybe we need to start working Rick Leach and Steve Smith's stats (passing and rushing) into the QB comparisons.

MMB 82

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:04 AM ^

are what sell newspapers these days. If the Freep is starting to look like a tabloid, it's because that is what they have to do to survive- and they are not alone in doing this. After all, it got us talking, didn't it?


October 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 AM ^

No way. Didnt happen Until Lloyd Carr comes out and publicly addresses the fact that they went to lunch, what was ordered and that he admits he picked up the tab, then I will not believe this meeting took place.

Silence speaks volumes. No presser detailing lunch menas no lunch.

Lloyd continues to kill this program. He only won a title becuase he inherited Bo's team. He's running a shadow government out of Ypsilanti and its been his plan all these 26 years to tear down the univeristy.

J. Lichty

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 AM ^

that lloyd is widely to be considered a huge factor in preventing Miles from coming to M. So which camp is he in?

I think there are actually several camps. Yes there are many who would have preferred Miles, and there are many old timers who irrationally hate Rod (I know several blue hairs in Chicago who cant stand him for no good reason) but they're not the main ones causing problems for Rich Rod.

If the rumblings around this board are to be believed, it is the Carr cronies and Ron English cronies -- the "shadow government in Ypsi" -- not Carr himself that is fueling the dissention.


October 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 AM ^

"Carr's reluctance to do interviews since Rodriguez's hire has drawn the ire of some fans -- and former players -- who wonder why he hasn't vocally supported the new coach and his staff. His silence, to some, is baffling."

This is shocking!!!! Especially odd given Lloyd's abundance of interviews and general friendliness towards the media when he was the head coach.

El Jeffe

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 AM ^

I get this, but still. What about Lloyd issuing a press release where he says, essentially,

"I have been a coach, employee, and fan of Michigan for xx years. You cannot find a stronger supporter of Michigan athletics than I am. I fully support Coach Rodriguez and any insinuation that I do not is a personal insult to me. To all fans, former players, and members of the media: stop stirring up pointless controversy. I am, always have been, and always will be, all in for Michigan."

Honestly, would that be so hard? The fact that he has completely silent on the issue is a bit troubling to me. If there's anything I've learned in my 25 years in electoral politics*, it's that ignoring a story never works.

* Plus or minus 25 years.


October 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 AM ^

Because Carr understands that the more people talk about people not supporting Rich Rodriguez, the more it's going to be in the fucking paper. This is a man that watched the media destroy his friend (Moeller), and made a concious decision a long time ago to not give them a single workable tidbit of information.


October 23rd, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^

"So the people that are bringing different stuff to the whole scene here and trying to smear this or do that in a negative light, screw you. ... We don't need that. We need collectively as a Michigan group, as a Michigan family to collectively want this program, and put that pride and energy and the backing and support to want this program to succeed. If you for a second have any hesitation (for) what I just said, you're not a Michigan man, and you're not a Michigan true blue Wolverine. Period." -Andy Mignery

Not all in:

"If Rich wins, God bless him," Caldarazzo said. "If he does it the right way, God bless him. If he brings the kids along and they get their degrees and if they come back in 10 years and talk about how much they love him, that's great.

"If there is any divisiveness, it's created by the guys overly vociferous for Rich. We don't have to have pep rallies every day -- we're for him."

If, if, if couldn't be more transparent.


October 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 PM ^

Dear Wolverine fans,

Just want to remind you to order your Rich Rod Hope Shirt before they are all sold out. There are only about 300 printed and have been received rave reviews not just here in New York but across the country. Show your support for this young team coming down the home stretch against the rest of the Big Ten.

The shirts are printed on American Apparel tees, available in Navy and Grey, sizes S - XL (sizes are mens, but women don't worry - the small fits all females). I would love the support of all my fellow Wolverine alumni and friends. They also make great gifts for the family members and feel free to forward along to others. The shirts can be purchased
Facebook page: Rich Rod Hope Shirt
Google search: Rich Rod Hope Shirt

OMG Shirtless

October 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 PM ^

Stop trying to peddle your stupid shirts here. You've posted in a bajillion threads about them. They're a decent shirt, a fun idea, but now part of me hopes someone sues the shit out of you. Not that they would win, I have no idea how that shit works. But I hope you have to pay to deal with the lawsuit.

Section 1

October 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 PM ^

The mere existence of Angelique Chengelis' story is what bothers me. The story exists only because Lloyd Carr hasn't performed the simple expediency of saying that, as Michigan's Senior Associate Athletic Director, he's "All In for Rich Rodriguez." Bill Martin did so as Athletic Director; Lloyd Carr should do the same as Senior Associate Athletic Director. Period. Or he should resign his position within the Martin-led Athletic Department.

Bill Martin didn't "have to" make a statement to the press about the Free Prees v. Rodriguez. But he did.

Lloyd Carr doesn't "have to" make a statement to the press about the Free Press v. Rodriguez. But he should.

Lloyd didn't have to kill the very low-level and unimportant rumors that he'd be a candidate to replace Bill Martin as AD. But he did it anyway, and he did it fast. Lloyd's having quickly and conclusively quashed that rumor just made me (and others, apparently) think, "Well, Lloyd, why not also quickly kill any rumors as to dissention concerning Rodriguez?"

And this is the part that really, really gets me. At a fundamental level, the Michael Rosenberg Jihad thesis is this: That off the field, Michigan Football has drastically changed, for the worse, under Rodriguez. And that it was better under Carr. That's Rosenberg's clearly-implicit message. Well, damn it, Carr needs to address that. I don't really care if Lloyd has different opinions on some things from Rich Rodriguez. But I don't see how it is, that any Michigan Man can take Rosenberg's side, when clearly the Freep reporting methods were and are so thuggish. This is a case in which "silence" is not neutrality, but rather is adding fuel to a fire.

Lloyd, I have all the respect in the world for you, but you should have stepped up on that. You have disappointed me, on that one thing.

As for Rick Leach; you just gotta love him. He's all heart and soul. But Ricky, you need better counsel. You've always needed some counsel, since you left Bo's supervision. The notion that Lloyd Carr was some kind of traitor, to have been the game-day guest of Iowa's Athletic Depratment is really silly. That allegation should never have been made. It defies about 70 years of close inter-connectedness between the Iowa and Michigan Athletic Department administrations. [I had the thought that if somebody wanted absolute proof that Lloyd Carr was NOT trying to undermine Rich Rodriguez, and was NOT trying to steal Kirk Ferentz away from Iowa to come to Michigan, then Lloyd's status as an honored guest of the Iowa Athletic Department is pretty solid proof that no such conspiracy exists...]