Good. [Patrick Barron]

So You Wanna Draft a Wolverine: DJ Turner II Comment Count

Seth April 27th, 2023 at 1:04 PM

Hello, fan of an NFL team. MGoBlog excruciatingly scouts every Michigan play, and scores them to inform our coverage. Since mi atleta es su atleta now, here we share what we're sharing.

Quickly: Quick, fluid, sticky corner who gets overwhelmed by the hosses of the Midwest.

Draft Projection: Late 1st to mid-2nd round.

NFL Comp: Isaiah Rogers

What's his story? Some Michigan fan sold his soul—or more likely the fortunes of our basketball team—to the devil to make this one happen. In the darkest days of the pandemic there was a game played in front of 40 people versus Michigan State where this kid nobody had heard of (and would never hear of again) just torched the entire Michigan secondary. It was one of those moments where you won't believe anyone who played can ever be good, and an entire fanbase dove into deep into roster to find someone with an alibi for being behind those responsible.

Then-redshirt freshman DJ Turner II had one, since he redshirted through 2019 with an injury and wasn't on screen in the 2020 MSU disaster because he'd yet to be healthy for a spring or fall practice session. He also had a recruiting profile that read like it could be ANYTHING.

RATINGS BY SITE

247: 6'0/165

On3: n/a

Rivals: 5'11/160

ESPN: 6'0/165

3*, 88, #490 Ovr
#51 CB, #51 GA
didn't exist yet 3*, 5.7, NR Ovr
#47 CB, #80 GA
4*, 81, #274 Ovr
#22 CB, #41 GA
3.74 n/a 3.66 4.05

COMPOSITE RANKINGS

247 Composite

On3 Consensus

MGoBlog

 
3*, 0.8888, #400 Ovr
#40 CB, #49 GA
3*, 89.4, #369 Ovr
#36 CB, #44 FL
3.5*, #545/786 Ovr
#47/74 CBs since 1990
3.89 3.94 3.78

His conflicting testing numbers said he was both the fastest thing at IMG and so slow that he had to escape there or play safety for Gwinnet. In May 2019 we actually comped him at the time to Brandon Watson, the slow press corner just coming off a program-shattering torching at the hands of Ohio State's mercenary speedsters.

This was what we call in scouting an Incorrect Take. Over the 2021 offseason any mention of Turner was a hope cloud. Into the nonconference season some of that hope started to look like something tangible, but as soon as it was grasped Turner would screw up a crack/replace or extend a dead drive with unnecessary roughness. For some insane reason they had everybody playing off Cover-3 against "Downfield is Lava" Rutgers.

The narrative on Turner changed along with the narrative on Michigan. Wisconsin's receivers couldn't shake him—okay, those are just Wisconsin receivers. Northwestern went at him and got it in the face. Like IN THE FACE. But it's just Northwestern, right? Michigan State needed review officials to overturn literally every catch made against Turner. Indiana stayed away. But all this time we're saying "Gotta be a mirage, right? We'll find out when we see Jahan Dotson and Penn State." No mirage. Turner obliterated the PSU star. It goes on the shelf with Marlin Jackson vs. Reggie Williams.

Zone coverages still needed cleaning up, but there was no doubt when Ohio State came to town and Chris Olave—Chris "I've been murdering Michigan since I got here" Olave—couldn't get this guy unglued from him. Basketball coach Juwan Howard was on the sideline, and must have suspected somebody talked to the devil. After the game somebody found a copy of OSU's scouting of Michigan's secondary. The rest was straight disrespect but the Turner file…

Good frame with below average bulk. Good playspeed. Good AA. Good hips and change of direction. Sticky in coverage. Man player. Good feet at the line of scrimmage. Good turn and run in press. Good hips at the top of routes. Good look back for ball. Good burst to close. A.

…was on point.

In 2022 Turner made the Bruce Feldman Freaks list, and had an excellent season, but the "average bulk" got exploited, the tackling was hit or miss or HUGE, SEASON-ENDING MISS, and there was more of that soft Cover 3 stuff. Technically it was Turner's fourth year, but the first two were such a washout it was more like a true sophomore follow-up to a breakout freshman campaign. That sly savvy you expect from a senior—the type that will bait a dumb college QB into a slant for a pick, or knows how to get the benefit of the doubt on downfield contact, or is always pointing at the younger guys where to go—he never really got there on the field like he did off of it.

There's a playmaker in there, but he was on the borderline of a guy who can get drafted on the elite upside and a guy who could come back and be a Thorpe candidate and 1st round lock. When he ran a 4.23 at the combine it looked like he made a wise decision.

Positives: The speed and agility are absolutely NFL quality. Feldman:

He is the fastest guy on the Wolverines, having hit 23.07 mph on the GPS and run a 4.28 40 — out of a two-point stance, no less. His 3-cone time is even more stunning. He clocked a 6.29 this offseason, and strength coaches think he has a good shot at besting the combine record of 6.28

Haha just 4.28. I mean, half of cornerbacking is can you slip around the field like a ninja. And while he's "undersized" that's a bulk and length issue, not a height one. And there's a lot of upside here too if you think you can add bulk.

The weeks when he was going to tag an elite receiver (Chris Olave, Jahan Dotson, Parker Washington, Jayden Reed) he shut that guy down. We took this as a sign of work ethic/film study--a point his coaches bring up often--but in the context of his natural ability. You get into your release, stem your route, watch the safety take your teammate, look back for the ball, and find Turner erasing your precious cushion and not even breaking a sweat.

Negatives: Size is the big one. He's sub-180, and I'm not sure he can get bigger than that. It's been a problem when bigger receivers body him, and borderline push-offs create too much separation. He's also not very long-armed, so there are times when a perfect throw and a perfect catch negate the perfect coverage.

The other negatives are residuals from Turner essentially losing the first half of his career to injury and COVID. He's a very undeveloped blitzer, and his tackling angles get him in trouble. Advanced techniques didn't get taught—you probably saw the (legal, IE behind the LOS) drag screens TCU was using to good effect and wondered why Michigan doesn't have its DBs swap assignments. We were wondering that all year, and the most likely answer is the coaches trusted Turner's athleticism and burst to make up for those windows more than they trusted him to swap jobs mid-play.

[After THE JUMP: By the way DJ stands for JuanDrago]

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What others say: Lance Zierlein got the writeup for NFL.com, made a comp to Avonte Maddox that I don't quite agree with, but hit on a lot of the same points above:

Explosive athlete combining fluidity, speed and superior technique to excel at his craft. Turner is scheme-diverse with the ability to line up inside or outside in coverage. He’s graceful with his mirror and match movements from press or off-man coverage, but he is plenty feisty when challenging throws or hitting receivers after the catch. Despite his competitiveness, big receivers can bounce him around and beat him on 50/50 balls. Turner has the tools and talent to become an early starter as a nickel corner capable of matching up with both shifty and speedy opponents.

The weaknesses section was mostly a repeat of the physicality stuff.

Damian Parson of Draft Network cashed in two years of adjectives we've been collecting to describe DJ:

Turner is a gifted and explosive athlete at the cornerback position. In coverage, Turner is an irritant for opposing wide receivers. He combines elite deep speed, oily hips, and quick-and-light feet to mirror and match his assignment. I love the patience and instincts he plays with, especially in man-to-man coverage. Turner has shown the ability to run with nearly every wide receiver he has faced this season. One of the best terms to describe his game is “sticky.” On tape, he is routinely spotted in the hip pocket of opposing receivers. The ability to blanket talented receivers and remain in phase on most reps cannot be undervalued. An ultimate competitor, Turner plays the ball and the receiver’s hands to force pass breakups.

I'm also nodding hard at the high-floor, high-ceiling part of his writeup. Ian Cummings isn't that good of a writer, but I love him as an analyst, so of course he found the thing that makes DJ Turner tick.

Perhaps the most appealing trait of Turner’s — even more than his speed — is his twitch and energy as a mover. He’s an amped-up short-area athlete who throttles up and down at will in press coverage to stick to WRs. With his short-area athleticism and tenacity, the Michigan CB sticks to receivers at stems upfield. He’s also able to quickly adjust pursuit angles and carry acceleration through transitions.

Oily. Damian, you need to teach this man to use "oily." The combine measurements sold ESPN and NFLDraftBuzz, but also revealed a wingspan that wasn't that exciting, and noted this would show up on the tape.

DJ Turner is a super athletic, speedy corner who'll most likely put up crazy numbers at the combine. He's much more than just a twitchy athlete however as he's put up two impressive years at Michigan even against top competition while demonstrating excellent press/man skills. Turner is far from a finished product, as he's small for a corner and possesses only average overall length and catch radius as well as looking pretty raw when targeted in zone coverage. Despite these reservations, his upside is significant and can't be overlooked - he'll not last past the start of the third round of the 2023 NFL draft.

Our Scheme/Best Scheme: Turner was recruited for Don Brown's Cover 1/sometimes trap schemes, but Michigan's coverages ever since Mike Macdonald and his successor Jesse Minter came along have been as complex as many you'll see in the NFL. More complex than a lot of them, actually. They run Man-1, the Saban Cover 3 pattern-match, a lot of Quarters, regular Cover 2, mixed coverages, and then all kinds of zone blitzes that incorporate the secondary. Basically the Ravens. And like the Ravens, when they get caught being comfortable it's usually because you caught them in Cover 3.

Turner can work in all of them, since nobody's yet invented a coverage in the NFL that's like "You know what, I don't really need the cornerback to be able to move that well." The only one I'd avoid is a team that really likes to stay in Cov2 a ton, because what you'll end up with is DJ setting the edge of the run game, dodging around a blocker, and getting trucked by hellbeasts y'all call "running backs" up there. You'll also get that damn corner/smash route he's got to drift back on—again not because he can't drift, but because once he's on it and the ball's in the air, it's like Steph Curry going up for a rebound.

2021-'22 Grading

The following numbers are based on my 2021 charting in Upon Further Review. One point is roughly equivalent to an action that affected the play by 5 yards, i.e. zero points are awarded for simply filling an assignment. Certain scores require context, for example we assign "Coverage" grades as a team metric.

BY PLAY TYPE:

Note those positive numbers are incredible for a DB. Usually guys who grade out like that don't get targeted much. Michigan's 2022 defense often left Turner in fly situations where he's got to cover a guy alone and the QB's only sane option is to try it. On the other hand, it also worked a third of the time. Is that a functional offense? Not really. But we needed something to complain about and there he was on screen.

Vs Play Type Plays + - Total Comment
Pass Short 71 +69.0 -31.5 +37.5 Too quick.
Pass Deep 52 +58.0 -25.0 +33.0 Too fast.
Screen 16 +8.5 -9.0 -0.5 Tackling issues came and went.
Play-Action 9 +9.0 -4.0 +5.0 Rarely targeted.
Speed to the edge 6 +4.5 -4.0 +0.5 Hit and miss.
Inside Zone 5 +1.0 -6.0 -5.0 Early career edge thing, plus bounces vs TCU
QB Run 5 +1.5 -3.5 -2.0 Early career edge thing.
Scramble 4 +7.0 -2.0 +5.0 Closes down space so quickly
Power Run 3 +0.5 -3.0 -2.5 -
Trick Play 3 +1.0 -1.0 - -
Stretch 2   -2.0 -2.0 -
Draw 1   -2.0 -2.0 -

His run defense was a very minor factor but might be an issue if exposed more. He makes plays in the run game sometimes, but every so often there's a game (like the Fiesta Bowl) when he suddenly can't contain a bounce.

BY GAME:

Note how he performed when there was a major receiver on the other team.

2021
Opponent Snaps + - T Notes
Western Michigan 29     - DNC
Washington 26 4 4 - A -3 for unnecessary roughness, otherwise solid day.
Northern Illinois 10 2 3 -1 Pluses all in coverage, minuses all in run D.
Rutgers 25 0 6.5 -6.5 Played off coverage, still terrible run defender. Nobody better?
Wisconsin 19 4 1 +3 UW went at him and he held up.
Nebraska 6 1 2 -1 Walking PI flag not what I wanted to see w MSU upcoming.
Northwestern 43 10.5   +10.5 Holeeeeeeeee shit.
Michigan State 65 7 5 +2 Early coverage miscue was only one, might not be his.
Indiana 50 3 1 +2 Left alone until he finally blitzed.
Penn State 86 11 0.5 +10.5 Jahan Dotson's statline was mostly his doing. Star watch.
Maryland 68 8 7.5 +0.5 No star today. Zone coverages need to get cleaned up.
Ohio State 79 13 7 +6 Dear Seth last summer...you're not gonna believe this.
Iowa 63 12 1 +11 Officially a good player.
Georgia 51 4 6 -2 Only coverage issue was playing off early. Got blocked.
2022
Opponent Snaps + - T Notes
Colorado State 42 7 1 +6 Avoided after he murdered a screen, still made an impact.
Hawai'i 27 4 2 +2 One atrocious angle, targets at him are wasted downs.
Connecticut 40 7.5 1 +6.5 Why would you target this man?
Maryland 76 8 4 +4 It didn't work out for them. It never does.
Iowa 52 3.5 2 +1.5 Stayed away from him, almost pick-six.
Indiana 70 10 6 +4 Star. Don't become a flag magnet now man.
Penn State 52 9 1.5 +7.5 Fade not his fault. Parker's very bad day: His Fault.
Michigan State 52 10.5 3.5 +7 If that's the guy you wanna pick on okay.
Rutgers 42 6 3 +3 Beat on the TD, shoulda had an INT in the same spot.
Nebraska 38 0.5 3 -2.5 Is the star getting wobbly?
Illinois 56 5 4 +1 Size only an issue vs the TE on the TD.
Ohio State 70 3.5 6 -2.5 Played off coverage a little too off.
Purdue 64 9 4.5 +4.5 Strong game as a tackler, soft coverage issues.
TCU 66 6 8 -2 Tackling issues are the NFL's problem now.

Note that Ohio State only threw at Turner when he backed off after their strategy of leaning on the receivers to win individual battles cost them in 2021 when that corner was Turner. Negatives down the stretch annoyed, but note how low the amplitude is. Teams were attacking him and mostly losing, and then they weren't really attacking him anymore. The one bad game was TCU, and that was mostly collecting big minuses for missing crucial, game-swinging tackles.

Video of All Varieties: (Collection)

Who needs leverage when I can just cut you off?

Who needs leverage on Garrett Wilson when I can just cut you off?

I know your route better than you do, Jayden Reed.

So sticky versus Jahan Dotson.

Chris Olave couldn't shake this guy, resorted to whining for flags.

Baits fades then exploits his lateral agility to get on top and dominate the route.

Like seriously. Parker Washington fades were PSU's money play until Turner was like here, let me show you how to run that route.

Speed makes him impossible to shake, then he plays the hands at the ball's arrival:

(Also in the above: Aidan Hutchinson got ludicrously held all the time in college too).

We practiced this rub route all year and now he's too sticky to throw it.

I see your push-off and raise you viper quickness and catlike ball skills:

You'd better throw it perfectly and catch it cleanly, because Turner is arriving sooner than you think, and playing the ball:

However the perfect throw and a very good receiver work better than usual. Turner's there, but his arms aren't long enough and his size isn't great enough to do something about it.Fluidity when transitioning zones is incredible. Could have had a lot more picks.

The best athlete on the field.

Slightness is a problem in leagues that give the receiver a lot of leeway with physicality.

Only sophomore-level savvy means; he takes cheap penalties when he doesn't have to:Tackling has come a long way but sometimes there are just massive breakdowns:

Even when he made the play I didn't love his angles.

We told you about the speed.

Summary and Projection: Unlike when he was a freshman DJ Turner II today is an easy scout. He has ELITE speed. He has ELITE change of direction. He can accelerate, close, diagnose, and generally move with the best athletes in the country. He's also been well-coached; he plays the ball when it arrives, can play in zone, man, or mixed schemes, and transition between them fluidly. All of that gives him one of the highest floors in the draft; at the very least you're getting an oily second cornerback you can insert immediately in any secondary and get league average production.

I love DJ in a defense that wants him to go erase a Problem receiver. A lot of NFL teams have lengthy corners to deal with the contested ballers, but the league is getting torn up by every Tyreek Hill, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Stefon Diggs, and Chris Olave who just moves to fast to be fair. To editorialize, NFL teams understandably responded to the Randy Moss era by looking for corners who can move really well *for their size* but forgot that *can move really well* needs to be a non-qualifier, and offenses are now exploiting that with receivers who move really well. Turner's the guy you set to studying that guy's every move, then laugh when you see the frustration on the face at this damn fly that won't stop buzzing in his ear. We didn't get those kinds of receivers every week, but when Michigan did face an elite receiver, Turner was *PREPARED*. Jayden Reed was MSU's top offensive weapon and Turner took him out of the game. If Chris Olave ever forgets one of his family members' birthdays or where he put his wallet, he can probably text DJ Turner for an answer. If Jahan Dotson's missing his wallet, I have a suspect.

The ceiling is the problem, because if there's one program's S&C program you expect has already put what it can on a guy it's Michigan's, and arms don't suddenly grow longer. Granted this is scraping for negatives, but there were too many moments where a well-covered receiver made a contested catch against Turner. I was tipping my hat to the receivers, but it got annoying when Turner would bait a trap, the horrified QB would realize it a fraction of a second too late, and then the receiver would bring it in anyways. The Turner experience has a lot of "That shouldn't have happened but it did" to it. If your NFL team (*cough* Lions) is already having issues with the general bloodymindedness of the universe, Turner's not going to help. And that comes back to his size. In 2022 MSU and Rutgers actually made it close at halftime thanks to early drives made wholly out of isolation jump-balls and a heaping portion of good ol' Big Ten let-'em-play. The NFL isn't as read meat as that, but they certainly give the receiver the benefit of the doubt when he's winning a physical matchup.

I'm putting him in the 2nd round, the 5th CB and about 50th or so, which is right about the point NFL teams no longer think they have to get a superstar, and remember how much you were willing to sell your soul (or your college basketball team) last fall for a second cornerback who's always going to be right where you want him to be. If your opponent's strategy is "We're going to throw at the guy who's well-covered and live with the results" you've probably already won the matchup.

Comments

Double-D

April 27th, 2023 at 1:24 PM ^

Seth you should offer a scouting report on all Michigan players and possibly their opponents to every NFL team for a fee.  The work is already done and fee would be small change for NFL teams.

I doubt anyone scouts UofM players more thoroughly.

 

Blake Forum

April 27th, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^

Excellent analysis. Thanks, Seth. I suspect Turner will have a long career in the NFL. Because, as you said, if the plan is "I'm going to huck it up to a perfectly covered receiver," the coaching staff is probably already happy with the overall drift of the matchup

smitty1233

April 27th, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^

Speed covers a lot of problems in the secondary. You can be as sound as you want technique wise if you can't run as fast as the guy you are covering problems are coming to a reception near you. When you combine both even with limited physical features: weight and arm length you can still find production. 

Denarded

April 27th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^

The 2021 MSU game might be the biggest double-edged sword of all-time. Michigan up two scores the majority of the game, MSU needed to go a perfect what 4/4 on overturned reviews and Jayden Reed making insane catches to win while Michigan uncharacteristically shot itself in the foot at every key moment and still only lost by 4. 

But then on the other side that game locked in Bobby Williams 2.0 into a fully guaranteed 10 year deal and the program is cratering into the abyss. So, great job guys? 

OldSchoolWolverine

April 27th, 2023 at 5:17 PM ^

Seth said in podcast a team will take him on the potential but will have to put on weight....but that's the thing...if he could carry the weight Harbaugh would have had him do so, so I don't think he's going earlier than expected.

M-Dog

April 28th, 2023 at 12:11 AM ^

I loved reading this . . . until I hated it.  We're going to miss him badly.  You don't just snap your fingers and replace that kind of inch-perfect coverage.