That was quite possibly the worst press conference in the history of Michigan football
January 5th, 2011 at 4:52 PM ^
And don't forget that the hire should meet with Drew Sharp's approval as well...
January 5th, 2011 at 5:24 PM ^
I'm 25.....but are you blaming the over 60s for richrods struggles?
January 5th, 2011 at 5:55 PM ^
Yeah, unfortunately that seems to be the case. RR greatest shift in support was in that demographic. Although I suspect if the defense had been fundamentally sound (assuming that would have resulted in more competitive losses, if not more wins), even traditionalists might have been OK with RR for another year.
And I mentioned this in a comment on another thread, but given the size of Michigan's alumni compared to the size of Michigan's student body, Michigan will never be able to get away from needing to accomodate traditionalists' perspectives.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:39 AM ^
Large B1G players, smash-mouth football, winning B1G titles, playing in the Rose Bowl, recruiting the Midwest, etc. I can't wait until he institutes the new "Down in front" policy at Michigan stadium. I thought he was a visionary and we would win national titles. I suspect he has more in common with your septuagenarian donors and a return to winning the 4th best conference but losing the world.
I want us to win the B1G, but I want us to transcend the B1G and win it all. I want to be the best in the B1G because we are the best everywhere.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:40 PM ^
But don't tear it down and start from scratch. Make sure you have a FULL proper staff in place. Don't just be wow's by one side of the ball, but make sure both sides are covered. Don't come in and be my way or the highway with the current players. Integrate. Don't be arrogant enough to completely discount the past. Don't leave you coach to fail and learn on the job, but give him some guidance, help educate him, and help and support him. And if you have all that, then you can put up a stronger front to everyone who complains, because then you've crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:55 PM ^
January 5th, 2011 at 5:49 PM ^
DB should probably understand what the new coach plans to do with the program before hiring. You know, instead of arriving home from a sailing trip to an irate fanbase after the ship sailed (pun intended) on the number 1 (and number 2) choice, then panicking and hiring a guy that seemed like he was leaving is his current job for petty reasons and was just looking for the place that would pay the most. Let's hire a guy that wants to be here.
January 5th, 2011 at 8:43 PM ^
But my reasons maybe not exactly answering your questions were because hiring Rich wasn't a mistake. How everything was handled by EVERYONE after was.
January 6th, 2011 at 9:26 AM ^
Yes. The only think I might add is that there were many influential people who believed hiring Rodriguez was a mistake (in their opinion) and did not go out of their way to support him. Unfortunately, money talks in big-time college football programs (it doesn't necessarily rule, but it definitely sways) and the "blue-bloods" have way too much say over the direction of a program, in my opinion. That said, soon (25 years) I will be one of those blue-bloods and I'll relish weighing in on the issues of the day. Its like hazing - we're being hazed by the upperclassmen right now and soon it will be our turn to haze.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^
Guys that are very good on one side of the ball are better as coordinators, not necessarily head coaches.
I think the lesson is also that the coach should have shown success with multiple coordinators and turnover in the personnel. Rich Rod was never great at WVU without both Pat White and Jeff Casteel. It appears now that his defensive success was entirely dependent on his DC and that he wasn't even very good at selecting a good DC. It'll be very interesting to see how RR does elsewhere. There's nothing to prove that his defenses will be competent or talent-laden without an elite DC.
Also, knowledge of the local recruiting landscape is vital. I don't buy the argument that it doesn't matter where you get talent. If we don't recruit Michigan and the Midwest well, those guys will go to teams that we play. If we don't get a four star in Michigan, we're going to see him down the road on another sideline. If we miss out on a guy in Florida, at least we probably won't have to face him later. We obviously need to do well nationally but we have to dominate recruiting in Michigan and get guys from Ohio and Illinois, etc.
January 5th, 2011 at 8:47 PM ^
As long as they realize it. Rich probably would have been fine with Casteel. But you don't need to concentrate on your offense if you can spin gold out of thread there. Recruit talent on D, and make sure you're highest paid assistant is your DC (or OC if you're a defense guy), and then let him do his work. Don't have buddies on the other side of the ball, have killers. No one remembers the name of the coach of the Giants in the 50's...but they remember his coordinators, Lombardi and Landry.
January 5th, 2011 at 11:31 PM ^
I wish I could neg you right now because this is the exact type of shit RichRod has had to put up with the past 3 years. RichRod won a Big East title, 9 games in 02 and 8 games in 03 without Pat White. I thought this stupid shit died a while ago along with the "RichRod doesn't like local talent" meme. We have 3 out of the top 7 kids from Michigan and it would be 4 of 9 if Conway could qualify. I have said it before....I am really starting to dislike a large portion of our fanbase.
January 6th, 2011 at 9:31 AM ^
A new coach does not need to show success with numerous coordinators. That's silly. And they don't need to show success with more than one full recruiting class. If you take that position, Harbaugh should not be considered since he's only gained national attention with Andrew Luck. Using your reasoning, he's nothing without Luck.
It does not matter where you get talent. In the beginning, if you're pulling major talent from out of state and succeeding then the local kids will come eventually. Your argument is circular . . . if Michigan passes on an out-of-state kid because they don't want to see a good local kid on another team, they'll just see the out-of-state kid on the other team. Good players are good players, regardless of where they are from.
January 5th, 2011 at 9:50 PM ^
As other posters have summarized very well. The man (Rod) was a one trick pony, albiet a damn fine trick whan applied effectively, still its just not enough for Michigan.
I'd take him tomorrow as my O.C. but in order to "run the show" you 've got to run the whole show.
I think Brandon actually disqualifed Hoke somewhat today, expressing that we need to spend some $$$, Get an established high profile name who's known as a great rectruiter. I wouldnt put Hoke in that catagory.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:43 PM ^
Exactly. Hiring Harbaugh is not really any different than hiring RR. Just like RR, Harbaugh runs a solid offense, but one that is not suited to Michigan's personnel at the moment. He's young. He's had success in lesser leagues (yep, I said it), but arguably less than RR had. He has had success while working with recruiting limitations and mostly recruiting in different portions of the country. Harbaugh's resume is surely no better than RR's was.
The only thing Harbaugh has going for him is that pretty much everyone will be behind him... until he fails to get to a bowl game in the first two years.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:56 PM ^
But the point is that he shouldn't fail to get to a bowl game for the first two years, IF he can prevent too many transfers from happening. I would have expected this team to go to bowls the next 2 yrs with RR, I would expect the same with JH.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:13 PM ^
No, the point is we don't know. You make my exact point in your last sentence. You wouldn't have expected RR to fail as he did, but he did. You don't expect Harbaugh to fail, but he might.
What if Harbaugh comes in. Say Denard transfers, Tate transfers, and just to pick a couple more "spread" type guys out of a hat, Roundtree and Odoms transfer. We'd still be slightly better on offense than 2008 running Harbaugh's system, because the O-Line would at least be solid, but I'd be surprised if we'd be 3 games better. And the defense is probably not getting up to 2008 levels, either. I see a missed bowl game. Now look at the 2012 schedule: Alabama, at ND, at Neb., at OSU, we really improving with a rebuilt offensive line and young skill position players? Is missing two straight bowl games not at least a possibility?
January 5th, 2011 at 5:20 PM ^
January 5th, 2011 at 5:20 PM ^
It certainly is a possibility given your scenario. That was why I wrote "IF he can prevent too many transfers from happening." If a large number of transfers do occur, or even a few, but all at QB, I agree that we will likely miss two straight bowl game.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:31 PM ^
That is my only point. Would you really be surprised if Denard transfers if Harbaugh is hired? Tate's academic problems may lead him out the door as well. That leaves DG, with no real backup. While I think Gardner could eventually excel in a pro-style offense, I can't see it happening next year, or even his RS-Soph. year.
Harbaugh is no guarantee at being more successful than RR. You sound like, gulp, a Notre Dame fan who had an excuse for why Willingham would be different than Davie, and Weis would be different than Willingham, etc. There are no guarantees that the next guy will be "the guy."
January 5th, 2011 at 8:43 PM ^
" You sound like, gulp, a Notre Dame fan who had an excuse for why Willingham would be different than Davie, and Weis would be different than Willingham, etc. "
Yipes! I must have written my previous posts very poorly to get that. I wasn't even ready to let RR go. I do understand why DB did though, given the "Har-Baugh" chants BEFORE the Gator Bowl, and the near fist-fights between Michigan fans by the 4th quarter (which my 14 and 12 year olds are still bringing up as "sad"). I doubt DB saw those particular incidents, but they probably weren't that isolated.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:37 PM ^
If key players transfer and Michigan does NOTget to another bowl game for two years, sales of pitchforks and torches in Ann Arbor will go through the roof. The average fan 1) does not read this site and 2) will expect any coach to come in and win immediately. The 2011 schedule sets up nicely for a 9/10 win season with the existing offense in place and a new defensive coordinator making some improvement on D.
If we don't go to another bowl until 2013 say good bye to new coach and Brandon. We will still sell 110,000 tickets per game but it will be very obvious that 100,000 people will not be in the seats for each game at that point.
That's why my guess is for a new coach who runs an offense similar to what exists now.
January 5th, 2011 at 11:35 PM ^
Sorry, transfers are 100% on the coach. It doesn't matter what the situation is, if he can't keep the kids here and we miss bowl games, he gets fired. I am pretty sure that is the precedent we have set here.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:44 AM ^
Gerhart and Luck (albeit, 2 different years). I think that the biggest difference from Harbaugh '09 to Harbaugh '10 was a change in DC.
January 5th, 2011 at 8:39 PM ^
"IF he can prevent too many transfers..."
I'm guessing RR would've been to a bowl game next year...because he was returning 20 starters (Woolfolk included in that number), his 6-7 freshmen defenders would all be 20 pounds heavier, and he'd be playing with what we could finally call a veteran offense (answer this: how many of RR's years did we play with QBs that had never played college ball before?). Who knows if he would've brought in a defensive coordinator strong enough to tell him to scrap the 3-3-5. But, I had hope.
The new guy's going to have to do it with half of this years' starters and with Jack Kennedy as his starting QB. Good luck! I think we're looking at another mass exodus, and a 3-9, 5-7, 7-6 run. See ya back here again in three years to argue whether or not the new guy should get a fourth year.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:31 PM ^
Just like RR, Harbaugh runs a solid offense, but one that is not suited to Michigan's personnel at the moment.
The offense Harbaugh runs at Stanford is not the one he ran at USD, when he had a dual-threat QB (Josh Johnson). Don't assume he'd run the Stanford offense here - at least not in 2011. I hope we get the chance to find out.
January 5th, 2011 at 6:56 PM ^
A key quote from Brandon at the press conference addressed this very issue (and I was very pleased to hear it):
"One of the things that I look for is a coach who can modify their approach and their attack based on the personnel that they have."
January 5th, 2011 at 5:10 PM ^
Aargh, I miss being able to vote. The only lesson that I can think of would be that offensive scheme transitions are bad and will take some time to work. While the RR hire was bad, it was bad only in retrospect.
Hopefully the offensive scheme change aspect will work against Hoke being hired. I don't hate him, I just hate that he's supposed to be our guy at the moment.
January 5th, 2011 at 6:04 PM ^
Wishing I could plus you here. Agree 100%. We're going to get Hoke, I freakin know it...
January 5th, 2011 at 4:37 PM ^
...that DB, had he been here, would have even considered RR. We'll see what kind of a rabbit he's able to pull out of the hat. He'd better not wait too long, though.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
though the process (and delay) scares the crap out of me. Clearly we are behind the eight ball, but DB made some points which give me some comfort:
1. Salary for the new coach will be no object.
2. Focus on winning the B1G is key; win that, and everything else will come.
3. Even the ball boys should be focused on defense.
4. The process will be fast, but wants to get it right. Well too late for fast, but at least at this point I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on getting it right.
5. Uniting the fan base: hopefully his selection will do that, and the back-bench sniping can be quashed (thought I am not against legitimate criticism).
January 5th, 2011 at 4:48 PM ^
It this were December 4th 2010 it would be all good.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:16 PM ^
Plus the fact that landing JH in December would be easier then right now given the compitition from the NFL that is now upon us.
January 5th, 2011 at 6:00 PM ^
Doubtful. JH was already a hot commodity in NFL circles by then. Also that would have required dumping Stanford before the bowl. A solid theory on why Brandon waited until after the bowls to "evaluate" is that JH was refusing to talk until then.
January 5th, 2011 at 9:22 PM ^
I don't share the assumption that Brandon wasn't trying to land Harbaugh in December. It's equally consistent with all the evidence, and IME more plausible, that he was trying and thought he had a shot but Harbaugh wasn't going to decide anything for certain until after his bowl. I also read that into the substance and tenor of his comments today about Harbaugh, but I freely concede we are all reading tea leaves here since he played it so close to the vest the last 45 days. (Which is, again, consistent with him playing out a back channel communication as so many thought.)
January 5th, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^
I didn't think the press conference was bad. This whole thing could end up blowing up in DB's face, but for the time being, it hasn't. Brandon has done enough positive things in his short tenure to incline me to trust him on this. Unless things do go poorly, I'm willing to put a hold on all criticism.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^
Yeah I was really worried about the focus on winning the big ten. We should make that crystal clear.
I hope the new defensive coach can make kovacs and vinopal... you know, talented. And avoid injuries.
1 and 5 are promising just because I think everyone's sick of the divided fan base. It's nice that we're willing to pay somebody in a year with no awesome candidates.
January 5th, 2011 at 5:05 PM ^
that there wasn't a coach being introduced. Took the time to watch it online, and I feel a bit better. I'm a bit jumpy about the recruiting class and next year, but I now think DB has the right long-term view that's going to serve us very well.
Funny how I've gone from exuberance on Monday night (HARBAUGH!) to fear yesterday, to hope today, but that's what's happened.
Still rooting for JIMMMAY, but even if that doesn't come true, I think we'll get someone to be proud of.
January 5th, 2011 at 8:44 PM ^
6. He didn't make the decision immediately after the OSU game because it would have affected recruiting.
...as if our recruiting will be much better off waiting until the signing deadline?!?!
January 5th, 2011 at 4:18 PM ^
What about haywood's firing and hiring or Mike price's hiring and firing?????
January 5th, 2011 at 4:19 PM ^
DB was respectful to RR, classy, well spoken, up front, and showed he's serious about saving this program. I think the did a great job and will bring this program back to the top. Don't want to sound too much like Barack Obama, but he has inherited a big pile of poop and has some digging out to do. Good start. Looking forward to a well thought out (non-hasty) coaching search.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
January 5th, 2011 at 4:30 PM ^
I think I've displayed great restraint thus far. I can't imagine this is what people who wanted Rodriguez gone wanted. If I were anti-Rodriguez, I would imagine that this outcome would be worse than just giving him another year. No?
January 5th, 2011 at 4:44 PM ^
Till we see who he hires.
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<br>But the way it's been handled doesn't fill me with confidence that it'll be done well.
January 5th, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^
Are you feeling worse than you thought you would when you learned that Rodriguez was fired? I imagine that the "elation" you imagined you'd feel (not that you would be happy about a guy being fired, etc.) is tempered by the circus that is CC 2011.
January 5th, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^
I was sad that we as a University had failed. I wasn't even sure he should be fired till the bowl, though I may have been leaning to get Harbaugh, or bring back Rich another year. After the bowl it just seemed like it had gone too far PR wise to work here. If he came back the next 9 months would be hell for everyone, and recruiting would die.
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<br>I'd feel better if we showed any sort of plan. As I've said, we could have brought Hoke in 24 hours after OSU and save a recruiting class if that's going to be the end result. I may not hate the end result...but even IF we get Harbaugh at this point (unlikely) I'll still think the process was garbage. And put Rich and his staff and their families through unnecessary suffering. Which is acceptable if you're doing it for the greater good of the University. But if it makes no difference, it's completely unnecessary.
January 5th, 2011 at 9:53 PM ^
I see, again, the HATERS tag coming out. Oh well. So be it.
But the "circus" that everyone who wants a coach to "BENAMEDRIGHTGODDAMMEDNOW because the INTRANETS always instantly gives me what I want" is nothing compared to the CIRCUS that was UM football for the last three years.
Yeah, I'll trust that Brandon knows a lil bit more about what he's doing than Message Board Guy. A solid coaching search would be a good thing--and YUP we have evidence right in our own back yard that a bungled coaching search doesn't work.
Just because Brandon isn't delivering a coach to the impatient masses faster than Jimmy John's can get you a foot-long ham & swiss on rye doesn't mean it's not going well.
Rich Rod hater? No. Fine, decent guy. Hater of how he handled Michigan football? INDEED.
January 6th, 2011 at 9:38 AM ^
Don't presume that you are somehow better than "Message Board Guy" since you are him and he is you. I'll note that there are new MGoMembers coming out of the woodworks to weigh in on the issue while all of us veterans suffered through this "CC" discussion for weeks now.
Also, we really know nothing about Brandon's search abilities and really have no reason to trust him other than the fact that he's the one handling it and we have no other choice. The "impatient masses" are voicing their discontent because people discussed Rodriguez's firing for weeks and weeks and it was basically a foregone conclusion at the time it was announced. I'll give Brandon the benefit of the doubt but he had damn well better be far along in his search. If this thing lasts for weeks, he'll be no better than Rodriguez in handling Michigan football, in my opinion. Time is of the essence!
January 5th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^
The deer in the headlights look that DB was sporting does not breed confidence
January 5th, 2011 at 4:28 PM ^
In the end, was it Michigan?