yeah i remember the ridiculousness of this thread, they are going to be in the final four, therefore not overrated or under-performing by any metric.
Something tells me that the author will talk about Louisville tanking, or poor reffing rather than admit MSU actually won.
You're probably right.
PWNED
Agreed. Let us agree that the term "fraudulent" never be used to describe MSU / Izzo in the tournament.
I'm very impressed with MSU.
It's really funny to see some of the original responses now knowing they're in the final four and have beaten the "almighty" Louisville.
Sorry, I'm still unrepentant.
for those cheering for msu:
You're saying that any given year, when we are in contention for an in-state prospect, who may or may not end up being a great player (I'm not saying that Ziegler will or will not be a Manny-like player), you're pulling for our in state rival who would be considered one of the top 4 teams in the country?
And this hypothetical player could be a banner player that could lead Michigan deeper into the Tournament, in the future, if we got him?
And you're will to take this risk profile for the sake of the public have a better perception of the B10?
Yeah, msu winning in 2000 was a great combination with the staff at the time. Truly great for our program.
If Ziegler's criteria was "I'm going to the better program", we weren't in contention before this game tipped off. MSU, today, is a far, far, far superior program to UM.
thanks for reminding us of that. Everyone here on this Michigan message board is now better off because this has been clarified.
Dude, even if you did graduate from here, just go pay your donation to RCMB and hang out there. They're a superior program. Worth your time. Really.
So, rather than responding to my rebuttal, you're just going to scream "troll". That's an indication of your desire to have an actual debate about.
I'm going to repaste this from the other thread, because I really have a desire to set this straight.
Your point that since msu operates at a different level and that them winning today doesn't change anything?
No, I philosophically disagree. I'm going to steal a quote here, but I'm going with "Life is a game of inches". Today, with msu winning, we were put an inch back.
And I love Michigan to that extent that I won't give up a single inch. I won't acknowledge my rivals success. I will cheer for my rivals if Michigan gains something from it(like going to the national championship game), but I think I've already established my view that the delta created between the two schools (in basketball) is much larger than the positive publicity generated by the B10 being in the Final Four.
And yes, I do think you're an msu fan. Which I have no problem with. But just be honest about it.
an MSU fan.
However, you do seem to be totally consumed with hate and envy of Michigan State's basketball program, and it clouds you judgment. The threads you launched today, along with your replies in this one, really do seem to confirm that.
You say that you love Michigan to that extent that I won't give up a single inch. Why? What about the University is it that you love so much that it causes you to hate all of their rivals? Do they teach this there now? Was it a 2 or 3 credit course?
I seem to have missed out of those lectures.
Is it really so hard to recognize when a rival well, and congratulate them?
What? Where have I said that I hate msu? I've stated nothing of the sort in any of my replies. I ignore them. I question their success. I was wrong when I thought they wouldn't go to the final four. I've stated I was wrong.
I love it to the extent that I feel that even when my rivals win, it incrementally (inch by inch) takes something away from Michigan, in most circumstances. There are exceptions to this, such as:
"I have no problem cheering for my rivals if it helps Michigan"
I thought I included that in my last post.
you certainly have not "seized the day"
neither have you addressed my argument. sigh eventually admitted that I was right. Still waiting for you to do the same.
I made a pretty concise articulation as to why I thought I was right. I admitted when I was wrong. You've typed in caps in a couple of threads; 'PWNED' and 'LULZ'.
Wow. You're on top of value add food chain here, clearly. At least I get a catharsis out of this.
It doesn't deserve the respect of being refuted. You can be a Michigan fan without making pointless, baseless accusations against other teams. It sounds like you've been spending too long on RCMB and have drunk too deeply from that cup of sour grapes and envy.
Let me know when you're able to refute my argument.
Your pou-pou'ing and ad-hominem emboldens the fact that you can't.
And why are you chastising my desire for Michigan to be better than msu in basketball?
And you can't spell poo-pooing.
I am not chastising you for your desire for Michigan to be better than MSU in basketball, I'm chastising you for being a dumbass. (Note: Now THAT'S ad hominem, though your previous posts make it more like QED.)
Ad hominem is attacking a person instead of attacking the merit of the argument presented. Which you still haven't done.
And I don't need to go ad hominem against you. Because we both know I'm right.
You say you're not chastising me yet you say that I'm envious? Lets not move the goalposts here.
But correct, no.
Also, learn to read: I am chastising you, but not for the reason you claimed. There is nothing wrong with desiring Michigan to be better. Also when you keep editing your posts, it makes it difficult to respond.
Yawn.
I'm happen to be married to a right-wing babbe.
First of all, LULZ, you've been PWNED all day.
Second of all, yes I did address your argument. I think. It's difficult to even know what your argument even is as you have created 3 different posts and added numerous new comments. Here's what I wrote:
I never said MSU winning is good for Michigan, one way or the other. I was just having a good time messing with you.
Seriously though, I don't really care if they win or lose. I just like following Michigan. I'm glad they are in the Final Four because it's good for Detroit for them to be there.
"Seriously though, I don't really care if they win or lose. I just like following Michigan. I'm glad they are in the Final Four because it's good for Detroit for them to be there."
Say msu wins it all. Say they get a few really good players that they previously weren't going to get, but because of their success, they managed to have them sign a LOI. These players go on and beat Michigan soundly in 2011 and 2012.
I can't possibly be indifferent to this. I am cheering against msu because in the spectrum of possible outcomes, this is one I do not wish to see happen.
I don't understand why this set of outcomes doesn't shock and somewhat scare people here. Haven't we experienced this with OSU?
Let me ask you something; were you cheering for OSU in '02 '06 and '07? Or were you indifferent? Because this ended up being pretty bad for Michigan.
(Chris, please let me know if I got the years wrong. Then again, I'm sure you would have let know anyways).
allegiance to Michigan?
Let me ask you something; were you cheering for OSU in '02 '06 and '07? Or were you indifferent? Because this ended up being pretty bad for Michigan.
And if success on the field translated to success in recruiting, then Bud Wilkinson's Oklahoma teams that won 50+ games in a row would still be on a winning streak.
again though, I still am waiting for someone to show me how this isn't zero sum, how our rivals success hasn't inflicted harm against Michigan, and how cheering against our rivals based on the reasoning I've stated here numerous times, is irrational.
The questioning of allegiance is based on the fact that I find it strange that people can be so cavalier about a series of events, that have a high probability of transpiring, that may cause harm to Michigan.
Durham, straight up - has OSU's recent success hurt Michigan. Yes or no?
March 29th, 2009 at 10:00 PM ^
how a rival losing in a tournament (MSU) has any positive impact on UM whatsoever. Who, specifically, recruit-wise, have we lost out on, because they are a little more successful?
OSU, same thing (and Pryor, was gone to OSU, UM was not in it).
It all just comes across as sour grapes and envy. And in my book, that makes for a bad sports fan.
March 29th, 2009 at 10:11 PM ^
previously still stands.
Has recent success at OSU hurt Michigan?
At most, extremely marginally to the point of being indistinguishable. Did Cooper's failures at OSU (2-9-1 against UM) doom OSU. Did UM's national championship in 1997 doom OSU? We all know the history since then.
These things did not perpetuate themselves. Otherwise, how do you account for the rise and fall of certain programs (USC in the late 80's and 90's, Univ. of Washington, FSU prior to 86 was nothing, Miami prior to 83, Alabama and Texas in their down years, etc, etc.)?
It is infinitely more important what UM and its coaching staffs do that what our rivals do. We can't be all-successful. Don't begrudge other programs their accomplishments.
March 29th, 2009 at 10:20 PM ^
I have a different opinion, but I will save it for another day.
And for Durham, Chris, et el., I hope you don't doubt the fact that I have an strong love (obsession for?) of Michigan. We just don't see eye to eye on potential harms brought against Michigan.
If you haven't visited MGoVideo.com, check it out. I've poured hundreds of hours into getting the 2008 Football season into numerous formats (HD .mp4, WS.DVD, 720p/1080i for the classics) available for people to watch and remember (although this past season was mostly worth forgetting). Some games from the 2008-2009 basketball season too.
So yeah, I love my Wolverines.
March 29th, 2009 at 10:37 PM ^
And lest we doubt your credibility when it comes to your sporting opinions, we can always fondly refer to the first post in this thread.
Yes, the level of civility that you've treated everyone with gives me a burning desire to support your website.
March 29th, 2009 at 10:11 PM ^
Recent success? Ohio State has pretty much always been good.
March 29th, 2009 at 10:28 PM ^
Who?
it bleeds through the context of your posts.
Why do you think that other teams success (whether Big Ten or otherwise) detract from Michigan? If find that attitude bizarre. And why must everything help Michigan?
When a friend of yours has success, do you think that it detracts from you? Do you have the attitude that "it isn't enough that I succeed, but all my friends must fail?"
Make no mistake, a conference is not formed because the charter schools hate each other. The lasting ones, like friends, form because of common values and goals. Trust me, the administrations and faculties of the Big Ten schools do not hate each other (quite the opposite, actually), just the rabid, irrational fans.
Yes! Life/nature, to a degree, is like that. There are so many seats at the table. So many spots in medical, law, dental, graduate school. There are winners, and there are losers. And to the Victors, go the spoils.
In basketball, there can only be a select few. You're either in or your out. And I want Michigan basketball to be back in.
this year, last year, nor the past 10 years. Yet Michigan State was, and you begrudge them that. That is irrational hatred.
In the things I did not accomplish in my life (like getting into MIT) I did not hate those that did. I do not wish them to subsequently fail, now that they are "seated at the table."
Their failure would have absolutely no impact on my success or failure. Neither does MSU's.
Michigan State does not need to get worse or fail more. Michigan just needs to get better.
And we please drop the hate thing? I'm still waiting for someone to show me where I've typed the word hate in all of this. You say it comes through contextually but the only scaffolding I've given to my entire line of argument is exclusively Michigan's.
I believe that there is probability in that somewhere in the progression of events there was an opportunity (a recruit, perhaps) that could have drastically changed the course of future events. Who knows.