OT: THE CAM NEWTON THREAD
This is getting nasty...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5786315
[MOD EDIT: Bumped. And as per Tim, -1,000,000 mgopoints to anyone else who starts YET ANOTHER THREAD on the subject.]
November 10th, 2010 at 9:51 AM ^
Auburn is public
November 10th, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
Unless ESPN is purposefully misdescribing Bond (something that I don't believe any competent editor would allow, much easier to say "someone close to the situation"), the two sources in the latest ESPN piece can't possibly be him. The ESPN report specifically refers to "two sources who recruit for Mississippi State." This basically has to be coaches, boosters aren't allowed to recruit.
And as was pointed out above, Auburn is public and actually is substantially similar to Miss. St. Both are the "little brothers" within their respective states, both from an academic and athletic standpoint. Yes, Auburn has had more success and probably is a little more flush in the cash department, but they're not all that different. In fact, if Auburn was private, they would actually most likely have less money to spend on facilities/recruits. ND and USC are pretty much the only private schools that can compete with the big state school giants when it comes to college athletics spending, and even that is a stretch.
November 10th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
about Auburn being private. Wow, my idea of what that place is all about would seem to be completely wrong.
But I will dispute your assumptions about [1] ESPN caring about having "competent" editors (I'll argue their editors are interested in one thing -- page views and television-audience numbers), and [2] the meaning of "two sources who recruit for Mississippi State" -- it's a huge leap to assume that ESPN would only use that to mean coaches. Sure, the second source might well be a coach -- I don't see Cam calling anyone else to explain his decision. But the first source, who claims to have been privy to something more than just an after-the-fact conversation in which a child said something odd, is almost certainly not a coach. Moreover, he's saying the same exact thing as Bond. It's Bond. Probably the second source is a Mississippi State coach who knows Bond, i.e., Bond referred ESPN to him. These guys have been sitting around bitching about Newton's recruitment, and Bond took it to the next level. If Bond is full of shit, then the whole thing falls apart.
November 10th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. In my mind a recruiter can only be a coach, the reason for the obtuse phrasing is to protect MSU coaches who as per SEC policy aren't allowed to comment on compliance matters concerning other SEC schools.
I understand you wanting to pin this all on an MSU booster, but to me, that just seems unlikely. I get not liking ESPN editors and thinking they're all about page views, but there are several tenets of journalism that would prevent citing Bond in such a way. First, Bond doesn't really have any need for anonymity at this point. His name is already connected to the story. Second, it's plain unethical to use a anonymous source and claim that he has a position he clearly does not have. I don't believe even poor editors only concerned with page views would allow what you allege. Finally, Joe Schad wasn't even one of the reporters on the original story. He hasn't had any connection to Bond, that we know of, it makes more sense that he developed his own sources for the story.
November 10th, 2010 at 12:43 PM ^
Also note that I don't have an opinion with regard to whether or not Cecil Newton's church got big money from Auburn boosters after his son committed to play at Auburn. I just don't think there is any convincing evidence at this point that he was shopping Cam's decision to boosters, which is what the allegation is, or rather was, if indeed the NCAA has had this information since January.
If he did, Auburn is in line for the same kinds of penalties USC got after the Bush investigation, which also involved parents taking advantage of the situation. But, like USC, I personally doubt the coaches themselves would know about it in any specific way -- they might choose to ignore warning signs, but they wouldn't actually be involved.
November 10th, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
The only source for the Reggie Bush allegations ended up being Lake and Michaels, the two guys who gave Bush the money and felt they got ripped off when he refused to sign with them or pay them back. That pair had a very extensive criminal history.
It might be fair to give Auburn the benefit of the doubt right now, but if recent NCAA precedent means anything then Cam Newton is likely in very deep doo-doo at the moment.
November 10th, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^
November 10th, 2010 at 2:29 PM ^
...follow Doyel's argument? Consider yourself lucky. If you were able to, it would disqualify you from being taken seriously anywhere where reasoned discussion is the norm.
November 10th, 2010 at 7:47 AM ^
All of this should be of no surprise. Barkley admitted in Sept to taking money while he was at Auburn. This school obviously needs to look deep into its boosters to see what is going on before they get hit hard. Yes, I know a long, long time has passed since Sir Charles was a Tiger, but it still shows that this has happened before at this school and that it could easily happen again.
November 10th, 2010 at 8:09 AM ^
Wow you are right , I forgot about that, this makes it look even worse.
I can see it....come to Auburn, we've been paying players since 1965.
November 10th, 2010 at 8:16 AM ^
+20,000,000 for that!
November 10th, 2010 at 8:47 AM ^
At least admit that you got this pic from the epic shaggybevo co-op statue thread. You make it sound like you did this, and unless your username is RollTideTA...
http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/75135-UT-Football-Basket…
By the way, that thread is TRULY epic. Several of the guys from tigerdroppings (LSUFreek, Rattlehead, and Notorious GOP) made their way over there and did some incredible (as usual) stuff.
November 10th, 2010 at 9:02 AM ^
and I sourced on a thread yesterday that is gone.
Sorry for any misunderstanding. I have no photoshop skills nor the time to develop them............just the time to follow the musings of 17 year old football players.
Cheerio!
November 10th, 2010 at 2:59 PM ^
Thanks for the clarification. Tough to tell on the interwebs, you know? I obviously missed your other post. =)
November 11th, 2010 at 10:15 PM ^
November 10th, 2010 at 8:35 AM ^
Does Auburn deserve the death penalty if these charges bear out? The Mayor, Kyle King, at Dawg Sports certainly thought they deserved the death penalty. IN 2006! The history of charges against Auburn is insane...
"Probation" is not an unfamiliar word on the Plains. Auburn's N.C.A.A. infractions history includes seven major infractions cases in the last 50 years, not including the present unpleasantness in the so-called Loveliest Village.
Auburn's history of major violations includes getting slapped with three years' probation in 1957, three years' probation in 1958, and a two-year ban on postseason and television appearances in 1979.Auburn was held responsible for unethical conduct in November 1991 and sanctioned for unethical conduct and a lack of institutional control in August 1993.
In the latter instance, the N.C.A.A. imposed punishments upon the Auburn athletic department just as Terry Bowden was about to begin his first season as the Tigers' head coach. Following his subsequent resignation under fire, Coach Bowden said on tape that A.U. boosters were funneling large amounts of cash to recruits.The most recent instance of wrongdoing on the Plains occurred when Auburn was placed on two years' probation on April 27, 2004. The N.C.A.A. news release announcing the latest penalties against the Plainsmen stated that, during the probationary period from April 2004 to April 2006, "the university shall continue to develop and implement a comprehensive educational program on NCAA legislation and submit periodic reports to the NCAA," including "a preliminary report that sets forth a schedule for establishing this compliance and educational program."
And of course, the "present unpleasantness" at the time was surrounding alleged academic fraud in 2005/2006, while the 2004 incident surrounded the secret recruitment of Bobby Petrino while Tuberville was still the head coach. They were eventually cleared, but that is a litany of charges. If these latest charges prove to have merit, SHOULD Auburn be given the death penalty?
November 10th, 2010 at 10:11 AM ^
Poor Auburn. This only adds to all the good Karma we had with last week. Now we just need a recruit or two to commit, plus a win at Purdue. We are on a roll.
November 10th, 2010 at 9:01 AM ^
If Mississippi State had just paid the money up front to get him. And I thought they were in the SEC. It's no wonder they haven't had a winning record in the conference in ten years.
November 10th, 2010 at 9:30 AM ^
So is there any hope at all that Auburn has dirt on the rest of the SEC programs and can use that info to avoid the death penalty? I'd love to see the entire SEC dirty house of cards come crashing down.
A guy can dream can't he?
November 10th, 2010 at 10:11 AM ^
Highly doubt it.
Apparently people at the NCAA expressed regret about the SMU death penatly as it basically killed their athletic department for 20+ years. They're only now just starting to bounce back.
Plus, SMU had widespread problems involving most of their players. With Auburn we're talking about just 1. In other words, if these charges pan out, I'm guessing the penalties look more like USC's current ones than the SMU death sentence.
November 10th, 2010 at 10:22 AM ^
Couldn't find anything officially documented but the NCAA pretty much said the death penalty does not exist anymore after what it did to SMU's program.
November 10th, 2010 at 11:10 AM ^
It hasn't happened at the D1 football level, but Moorehouse Soccer and MacMurry Tennis have both received the death penalty within the last 10 years.
Also, not quite the death penalty, but Baylor basketball was limited to regular season conference games after their recent scandal.
I wonder if the damages SMU faced would be replicated at a place like Auburn. They would undoubtedly suffer, but if say they were forced to sit out one season, would they be set back for 20 years? I find it hard to believe with the TV money and BCS money they would receive that they couldn't recover withing 5-10 years. If it can be proven that Auburn's coaches knew about the alleged payout, I think the death penalty is an appropriate penalty.
November 10th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^
If Auburn paid Cam Newton, they deserve the death penalty.
November 10th, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^
kick in the groin for Auburn fans. This could end up as the third undefeated season in the last 17 years for Auburn without a National Championship.
They went undefeated in 1993 but were on probation and not eligible to be voted National Champs by the Coaches. The AP voted them 4th, behind three one loss teams.
They then went undefeated in 2004, only to see the BCS formula pick USC and Oklahoma, who were both also undefeated.
Fast forward to 2010 where, if they can hold serve these next few weeks, they most certainly will play in the NC game. If they were to win, it may be a foregone conclusion that the title will eventually be taken away.
November 10th, 2010 at 10:12 AM ^
You'd think that Auburn would have learned from the Albert Means scandal and, if Alabama having been on the brink of receiving the death penalty hadn't sent enough of a message, the Reggie Bush scandal. I guess it only further demonstrates that "SEC speed" doesn't refer to learning ability.
November 10th, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
his dad is a Preacher. Straight Cash Homie.
November 10th, 2010 at 10:55 AM ^
could put some type of insurance policy in place for players that have a future NFL career ending injury. Then they have their education and some cash to get them started on a different career path ??
November 10th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^
This policy has been in existence for years. The amount of the policy depends on how high the player is projected to go.
November 10th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
November 10th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^
I hate to say "that's the SEC", but this really does not come as any surprise to me. It is a tough spot these families find themselves in, and while it certainly does not excuse actively and knowingly breaking the NCAA rules, I don't completely blame them either for trying to make good on promise that is one ACL injury away from disappearing forever.
November 10th, 2010 at 12:23 PM ^
I agree on the families - can't fault them totally for doing what is in their best interests - blaming them is too easy for the schools or anyone else.
November 10th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
but I knew this guy reminded me of Pryor for some reason!
November 10th, 2010 at 1:30 PM ^
...takes on the Cam Newton story. Spencer's in the smoke = fire camp.
It's also got a great new LSUFreek gif on the Les Miles grass incident.
November 10th, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/11/10/cam.newton/index.html
Anyone notice this? What's his angle here? Why doesn't he hunt down Newton with the same doggedness he does for Rich Rodriguez? Freep FTW.
November 10th, 2010 at 3:06 PM ^
I just read this and was thinking, WTF? Unreal.
November 10th, 2010 at 3:33 PM ^
No kidding... he even goes with the everybody cheats like this line of reasoning.
/facepalm
November 10th, 2010 at 9:47 PM ^
I was just coming to ask the same thing. Buying players no big deal. Extra stretching is an abomination.
November 11th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
Michael Rosenberg, better known to the world as the man who would connect Somali food supply instability to Rich Rodriguez's improper and excessive use of athletic tape on Michigan's shoulder pads, takes the ice to the tune of Nickelbacks "Hurrg Gurngle Fartbuckle Urngh" 'and executes a perfect triple Salchow of stupidity.
"What I find remarkable is that, if all of this is true, the under-the-table payments are what would upset people the most. I mean, yes, it is against NCAA rules. But in any other segment of society, if a college kid found a way to use his talents to bring in money to support his father's church, he would be a hero. There would be glowing newspaper profiles and probably a few humanitarian awards. If a kid does it in college football, he's a villain."
Christopher Hitchens just ripped out his IV of chemo and Johnnie Walker Black reading that, but he probably does that three or four times a day (to change it out) (because he requires more whiskey, not more chemo.)
Awesome!
November 10th, 2010 at 2:31 PM ^
Hate to see it happen to anyone, but hopefully this is dealt with swiftly and effectively. Can't have this sort of rule breaking running rampant in the NCAA.
November 10th, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^
from yesterday. The suspense is killing me!
November 11th, 2010 at 5:05 PM ^
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5792707
Kenny Rogers, on ESPN Dallas radio, telling the interviewer that Cecil Newton told him, in front of two Miss St coaches, that it would take "between $100,000 and $180,000" to sign Cam.
You reap what you sow. The pro-Newton faction tried to make it out like Rogers was an independent actor trying to make $ off of Rogers, giving Rogers an incentive to come public and clear his name.
I know a lot of you are trying to say "Freep innocent until proven guilty etc etc" but this case is different. Notice how the Newtons don't actually deny anything -- they just shoot the messenger or say "I'm not talking about that." They are guilty.
What is horrifying about this whole story is how a father is willing to put his son's future at risk so he can make some extra cash. I'm surprised more people haven't called him out for that.
November 11th, 2010 at 7:09 PM ^
Yeah it's pretty much human trafficking (what his dad did). That is, if the allegations are true, and it's starting to look like they are.
November 11th, 2010 at 7:39 PM ^
ARGH you are the reason Godwin's law exists.
November 11th, 2010 at 9:46 PM ^
...check register.
November 12th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^
FBI now involved for possible extortion. Funny, when Robert Smithsaid he would still have Cam on his Heisman ballot, Desmond Howard was laughing and said- " Robert Smith has a Heisman ballot??? haha Since when did Robert Smith have a heisman ballot. ??" He was calling him out.
Also, Auburn is "no comment" on whether Cam will play.
November 12th, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^
...hilarious. Good for Desmond.
This thing is blowing up BIG time.