Fan Anger
I've been perplexed by something I've noticed the last few weeks and I wonder if anyone else has noticed this and has a solid explanation.
Why do the fans that seem the angriest also seem the most ill informed?
My initial instinct would tell me that the angriest people would be the coaches and the players. Then the former players who have a stake in the program, then it would be the fans that follow the team 24/7 looking for any piece of information. This has nothing to do with this board as there are plenty of good arguments on both sides of the fence and bad ones as well, it's just interacting with people on a daily basis.
I have banned myself from any media other than Mgoblog, WTKA and national ESPN or Dr. Saturday stories the last few weeks. This caller to Sam which then made me immediately turn off the podcast summed up my dealings with my neighbors, people at the gym and work the last 2 weeks.
"Hey Sam I just don't see where we are going. The offense doesn't work against good teams and the defense is just terrible and outside of Mike Martin there is no one on the defense who looks to have any potential. Are we recruiting anybody on the defensive side of the ball that can help out this defense. I think these guys need to go."
This was tame compared to some other people, but it illustrates my point. I had a guy rail on Michigan for a couple minutes at the gym and then let it slip he never even watched the game because he can't watch that shit. Didn't watch the game? It seems the angriest guys don't follow recruiting daily or transfers or know about the depth chart or the schedule or injuries or schemes. Usualy there only source of any info is from Valenti or the newspapers.
Now I'm not saying it is wrong to not follow the silly whims of 17yr old kids or waste time like I do pouring over depth charts in May like I do, I'm just surprised with such little time invested they get so angry and are so vocal about it. You would think the angriest people would be guys that follow this thing 24/7 like many of the people on the blog. I get that anger, you devote all that time and effort into something and you get nothing back it is frustrating.
I'd like to know your thoughts.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:35 PM ^
This explains why I hope that they don't pull the plug on Rich Rod at the end of this season. Despite the loss against Michigan State, they were moving the ball pretty well. When you consider that 2 of the 3 picks were at or near the endzone, if those fall into blue hands instead of green hands, that game could have had a different ending. I blame the picks on a true sophomore quarterback in the first game where he has some serious pressure on him. (I don't think he had that pressure in the Notre Dame game because noone was expecting Michigan to win that one). If I recall, they had 380 some yards in that game. I still think that Denard was moving the ball pretty well, he had quite few yards rushing and quite a few yards passing. And in total, Michigan put some 522 yards against Iowa.
As for both games, I saw the defense showing some signs of what might come to pass next year. They got a few three and outs in key points of the game. That will get better next year.
But if you fire Rich Rod and bring a new coach in, who knows what happens to all of that.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
......and expectations are not being met. I hate hearing all of the uninformed/over-the-top rhetoric just like everyone else, but I think we can all find common ground on the fact that we all expected to have progressed way beyond the current state of the program. Some people just express the frustration in ridiculous a fashion. I don’t think patience is a virtue of any fan base when trying to rebuild.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:42 AM ^
we all expected to have progressed way beyond the current state of the program.
Speak for yourself, creepy mustachioed naked man. I guess if you mean "the second RR was hired, we all expected to have progressed way beyond the current state of the program," maybe. If you mean "once I saw Nick Sheridan throw the ball and Steven Threet run the read option and read Misopogon's Decimated Defenses posts and hear about Boubacar and Donovan and Justin and Troy and Vlad, we all expected to have progressed way beyond the current state of the program," then I disagree.
BTW, I'm sobbing now.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:59 AM ^
......call me CRAZY......but I expected to have a FEW more road wins by now, AND wait for it.....here is the crazy part I expected to have a few more wins against Big Ten opponents by this point.
I know, I know....isn't that just mind blowing?!
**BTW.....you totally misquoted me....I never said "the second RR was hired" nice try.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^
I would like to see proof of someone expecting to lose to MSU 3 years in a row, or expecting to lose to Purdue 2 years in a row, or expecting to beat only 3 B10 teams in 2 1/2 years. I think those who say they expected this are being disingenuous.
Edit: also if you dig up some preseason prediction threads from 2008 and 2009, you will see that only a small minority actually expected this.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^
I really appreciate your posts as of late. It's nice to get the perspective of someone who seems a little fed up (no offense intended and maybe you're not fed up, idk) but articulates themselves very well and in a calm manner. +1
October 19th, 2010 at 12:19 PM ^
I'm just not entirely sold. I'm still in wait and see mode, and will probably stay that way until the end of the 2011 season. I would honestly like to see less mental mistakes on Saturdays though. I don't think I'm in the minority there. I would say just like everyone else, I like when we win and don't like when we lose.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
I've been following M football my entire life and although I've never expected (or predicted) that the team would lose to MSU 3 years in a row or Purdue 2 year in a row, I do understand that when you play the game for more than a century eventually some shit happens.
I remember that there was a time when Michigan had never lost to a MAC team but I also understand that eventually, if you play enough games against MAC teams, then you will lose to one of them (as happened against Toledo in 2008). As they say, never says never.
But this can also be a positive too. I remember for a long time that whenever Michigan fell behind by about two touchdowns a statistic would pop up on the TV saying that Michigan had never come back from more than a 14 point deficit to win (or maybe it was 15 or 16 points, something like that)...but then one day a Michigan football team fell behind Virginia 17-0 and, holy cow, the team came back and won...even though they had never done this before.
For me, much of the entertainment of sports is seeing new things (or at least variations). Yes, I like to beat the Spartans but if we literally beat them every time, then the game wouldn't be very interesting. The Harlem Globetrotters win every game, but who has ever watched more than one of their games?
October 19th, 2010 at 12:32 PM ^
Really actually gives some good perspective. I also remember that Virginia game. Mercury was one of my favorite players growing up.
Thanks.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:42 PM ^
I've been following Michigan football for a long time now (maybe not as religiously as some here but still a long time) and can honestly say that I'd never expect to see a Michigan team not go to a bowl game two years in a row. I thought it was pretty much a given that Michigan would go to a bowl game. I think alot of this anger comes from the fact that Michigan has been good for so long that people have forgotten what it's like to be on the other side of the equation. Because of that, it is expected that Michigan will fall above 500 and make it to a bowl game and generally to one that is played on New Years (at least). Sports is like everything else in life, there is a cycle and Michigan happens to be in a trough. And I think Michigan will come out of this.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:01 PM ^
I think you misunderstood my point. First, I never said that you said "the second RR was hired" so I didn't misquote you. The point I was making is that expectations depend upon the information you have at the time you formulate your expectations. When I was 18 I expected to nail lots of women. Now I am 41. Enuff said.
So the larger point is this: if your expectations were formulated based on poor information, then when things don't turn out the way you want, should you be upset, or should you wonder whether your expectations were off?
In my case, I totally agree with you that when RR was hired I never expected this sort of rebuilding process. But then as I began to learn about what RR's offense requires, and about how decimated our defense is, I adjusted my expectations.
At this point, if we don't win at least 3 more B10 games, I will feel lke my relatively reasonable expectations were not met. But if we finish 3-2 (and therefore 8-4) I will feel like my recalibrated expectations were, in fact, met.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:30 PM ^
El Jeffe,
C'mon you can't draw a correlation between your lack of getting a$$ and the performance of the football team.....really?
My expectations were based on 30 years of a (for the most part) a successful football program. I don’t think that’s poor information, and I am not going to lower those expectations regardless of who is coaching....wanna know why? Because thats what separates us from the lower tier teams like Indiana, Minnesota, and Northwestern.
Now I will wait patiently as I can for things to turn around, but it is year 3....so if the natives are starting to get restless let’s not paint everyone as a uneducated misfortunate renegade who has no idea what they are talking about.
So we do agree on some points, but I refuse to lower my expectations....after being a fan of this program for this long it's not in my DNA.
**also sorry about the false accusation about mis-quoting me....you used some similar verbage and I made the assumption...sorry.
October 19th, 2010 at 3:34 PM ^
Believe you me, I'm not thrilled at what's gone on the last few years. That's a common misconception among the UNACCEPTABLE crowd, who think that attempting to understand WHY the team has been underperforming is tantamount to approving of it.
October 19th, 2010 at 4:14 PM ^
Yeah, third year and it is tempting to get restless. But I think that the length of this rebuilding project is the part that has really been the most insightful aspect. I used to take it for granted when M would win every year but the part that I wasn't paying attention to was the development of the younger guys. When you roll out senior laden teams every year then it's easy to glance past the fact those seniors have already spent 3-4 years in development.
In professional sports you can turn around a team pretty quickly with the right coach & general manager. But that's because the pros can hire free agents and cut the players that aren't effective. The pros can practice around the clock if they want. In college, the turn-around of players is not nearly as fluid. Moreover, many of the college players are still developing and, as everyone at Michigan now knows, you have NCAA mandated limits on just how much time you can spend practising & teaching the players. Even if a kid wants to do the work on his own he still has to deal with a class load.
Unfortunately, once the Hart-Henne-Long-Coach Carr team disbanded after the 2007 season, we were in for a rebuilding program one way or the other.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:57 AM ^
It's like a delayed flight.. scheduled to leave at 6pm, then the slot gets pushed back to 7pm... we finally start boarding but we're stuck at the gate. After additional delays, it's 8pm and now we're on the runway, wondering if.... what no frequent travelers on this board?
Basically, some people (e.g. me) Just accept the fact that things sometimes happen, not much I can do there. Others (obnoxious, status flaunting man) bitch & moan about how this is....UNACCEPTABLE. Dang, I finally caved in and used the U word.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:01 AM ^
Great analogy (+1)....I am sitting in my seat waiting for the flight to take off.....just getting really annoyed.....but I'll keep reading my magazines and checking out the hot flight attendants.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:36 AM ^
Haha, seriously. Except in my case, most of my flight attendants are 60 and male. Thank God for MGoBlog.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
October 19th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
That is why those passengers stuck in the runway for 14 hours last year jumped off the plane saying how great the airline was and how by next year it should really have things running smoothly, right?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
Wait are we talking about Notre Dame here or Michigan?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^
I knew it wasn't all RR's fault, but I was ill-informed then as well. Besides, App State had already shown me there were fundamental issues in the program. An outbreak confirmed by that season's record, Toledo was just another dead body. No, at that point I didn't believe we'd find the cure right away.
That's where we are: I think we have a remedy but it's not working fast enough
October 19th, 2010 at 10:41 AM ^
A lot of Michigan fans are only fans when they watch the game on Saturday or when they read the boxscores on Sunday. This isn't meant to be a snob or elitist statement or to imply that if you don't check into at least four M blogs a day and know the 2-deep and 2011 recruiting board you're not a "real" fan.
I think it just reflects the reality that outside of our little bubble here on this site and others many people just look at are the wins and losses and compare the last couple of years to the years before that. They don't care about the good things that are going on behind the scenes, they only care about the top line results and the most readily accessible media account. And based on that alone, they're completely pissed.
The thing is, these fans are the ones that will also jump on the bandwagon the fastest as soon as the wins start rolling in. And they will wonder in amazement, why those of us that have kept the faith during this time, will be incredibly angry at them.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:13 AM ^
Why does 'keeping the faith' require turning a blind eye to all problems? There are lots of shades of grey between the cult members here drinking the kool-aid and cheering our great progress and those who are calling for RR head and putting Harbaugh on their speed dial. The INFORMED of us can look at this team and get upset when an offense (which is supposed to be so complicated) can show improvement so quickly with young guys, but a defense can't even be respectable after 3 years. We can also get upset when our coach says in the press conference that he is too busy coaching the offense and the not-so-special teams to figure out what to do about it. We can even find a way to get upset, while remaining objective, cheering the team on, and hoping that next year they can find a way to avoid the same bs mistakes and put together a season where we finally beat MSU and contend for a big ten title. And if, when we finally are where we need to be, you come up to me and tell me that I am not a real fan like you...
October 19th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm sure you got negged by the 'kool-aid' drinkers, but you're absolutely correct. Just because we love the team and want it to suceed doesn't mean we have to turn a blind eye. That's when you really get into trouble..
October 19th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
I agree with you guys, for the record, as I'm sure most do. It's okay to challenge or question what a college football coach is doing with the program. Frustrations? Sure, that's showing you care. However, I think there is a general frustration with the fans who are calling for RR's head. Not saying you are, I think we (maybe just me) are tired of negative comments about RR. No coach is perfect, LSU fans were/are calling for Les Miles head, and they're undefeated.
I'm frustrated the defense is not playing like it's learned something over the last 2 years, but look at the roster and... well you know the drill. My personal frustration is with people who won't take a look at the bigger picture. If Michigan had a better defense, we'd probably in contention to win the Big 10 and possibly a NC. We're closer than you think to being a true contender.
Finally irrespective of all this, I really like what RR has done in terms of player character development. Looking at all the Countdown to Kickoffs, and other videos, how can you not just love the team? The little things like handing the ball to the referee, the continued emphasis on school and grades, the continued support/giving back to the community. 'The Team The Team, The Team' rhetoric coming from all (including a Heisman candidate.) He's a great guy, who's teaching great things to these young kids. I trust Rich Rodriguez will get it done.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:08 PM ^
Dude, you are a one trick fucking pony. First, get used to the fact that reaonable statements like UMDad's do not get negged. Because they are reasonable.
Second, not all people who disagree with you are kool-aid drinkers. That argument is the weakest of sauces. Sometimes people just don't see things the way you see them. If you present your point rationally and respectfully, I can virtually guarantee you that you won't get negged (as if that matters anyway). When you express your opinion like an asshat, you get negged. It's really just that simple. Behold two examples:
- Bouje is about the kool-aidiest of kool-aid drinkers on this board. He also tends to present his opinions like a monkey on speed. Result: he gets negged an awful lot (BTW, I loves me some Bouje).
- UMDad is, I think it's fair to say, a skeptic. He presents his opinions thoughtfully and either with evidence or with honest disclaimers about where his evidence might be lacking. Result: he doesn't get negged.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:20 PM ^
I think what is happening here is that the five percent of people on either end of this spectrum are so angry and defensive that it has been dragging the rest of us into it. All of our fuses are growing shorter and the rational respectful attutudes that we would normally have start to get skewed and we become quicker to fire back or neg a comment than we would normally be and the cycle keeps feeding itself. I think at some point we are going to realize that the 90% of us in the middle are all screaming basically the same message at each other. I will go first... I am sorry my MGOBLOG brothers and sisters...hugs all around. Let's get back to hating those jack ass MSU fans that seem to be multiplying in the broom closets at all of our offices.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:43 PM ^
His post was in the negative when I first responded you DB, which is why I mentioned it. One trick pony? You're way off base, in fact you aren't in the same fucking zip code. I'm pointing out the exact same point you are if you would actually read anything I wrote. I was clamining he got negged simply because he was (God forbid) questioning some things. I said amen because it is his right to question. He isn't sold, nor am I. Get a grip.
October 19th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^
I love being called David Brandon.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:45 PM ^
I think to avoid getting shouted down by the Kool Aid drinkers like myself you should leave your criticism to a specific point about the games and not take 1 mistake and say Fire Him!!
Iowa game was ripe for criticism for RR. I still want to know why we don't jam WR's. Every coach makes mistakes in every game, every season , every recruiting class. They have to make tough calls all around. After the anger of the game subsides I then look at the direction of the program.
October 19th, 2010 at 3:11 PM ^
I personally haven't seen any post saying fire RR here. Maybe I just missed them.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:45 AM ^
the simple minded are closest to accurate in their evaluation. Long ago, before blogs, UFRs, recruiting boards, constant talk radio, etc., the test was just is the team good? For example, after the State game, many on this board treated the UFR as more important than the final score. Accoding to the final score, Michigan got spanked, according to the UFR, Michigan just did not execute. The people that think this way are very simply missing the forest for the trees.
Those that you reference use the "is the team good" test, and they look at the teams recent record and their recent performance. Michigan has won four games in the Big Ten in the last three years, and have looked very bad in doing so. That is how the average sports fan evaluates a team. Just if you would ask, are the Lions good? The typical sports fan would look at their record the last three years and their current roster, and they would have their answer.
To many who substitute their knowledge for the teams competence, they believe "as long as I know a lot this team will be successful." It may do some Michigan fans some good to listen to the guy that "knows" the least right now, as his perspective may be very valuable.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:47 AM ^
you're spot on sir. UFR? Some could say not executing is just not being a good team...
October 19th, 2010 at 10:54 AM ^
I agree and not executing is a reflection on coaching. Lets give RR the proper time, we have made the committment now its time to stick by him and the team
October 19th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
does sticking with him and sticking with the team become two seperate and distinct things.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:38 AM ^
UFR?
If you don't know what UFR means, I doubt you can accurately say "spot on" about any analytical comment on this site.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^
I know what UFR is. I meant is as, "some people are really judging the team completely by UFR in some instances?"
October 19th, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
After watching the 2005 team go 7 and 5 I was actually really excited about the team the next year. There were a lot of things to be excited about, such as, losing a lot of close games, getting our backfiled back as healthy juniors the next year, and getting our offensive line back healthy. I think what the "kool-aid" drinkers are looking at in the UFR's, are not that they are happy with the outcome, but that they are happy that the outcome does not mean doom for all time. If people who look at this team and see no potential and no chance for success in the near future (meaning 3 more wins this year) then I agree that they should be mad and looking for a different dirrection. I think many here see a good chance for success in the next couple games and could lead to good things in one or both of the final two games.
I've been here before. My freshman year (98) we lost our first two games, before ripping off a bunch of wins. In 2007, we were winless after two games and didn't look even competitive for one of them, yet went on a terror for 8 games straight before succombing to injuries.
To your analogy, yes I just saw two trees get cut down, but that doesn't mean the forest is gone.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
I understand that people are frustrated, and they have a right to be. However, I doubt that Sam is compensated enough for some of the calls that he takes on his radio show.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:50 AM ^
My biggest complaint is towards the fans that say something similar to the following.
"The sun always rises, always sets, and Michigan always wins on Saturday."
Now, since 1948, we have had one perfect 12-0 season in 1997, yet these people always seem to think that we had 10-0, 11-0 teams in that timespan. Truth is, we lost 2-4 games regularly, as do many teams. Sure, we won a lot of Big Ten championships, and had solid top 20 teams year in and year out, and we went to a bowl game 33 straight years, but that doesn't mean that UM will never have a fall from grace like every other team has done at some point. If you don't follow recruiting, attrition, injuries, age of players and development, yet you still choose to bitch about the lack of production based solely on the past, you are uninformed and make the entire UM fan base look impatient and takes away any credibility from knowledgable fans and reporters. Our offense, led by sophomore QB's (one in his first year of starting) and with a substandard running back core is still racking up top 5 stats in offensive production. Give them time to be upperclassmen and I can't begin to imagine what the possibilities of this offense will be. Also, give the defense some years to mature and develop and the team should come around. And guess what, even with an improved team in the next few years, the same people will bitch about a loss because they truly believe Michigan should never lose a football game. We could go 11-1 next year and some will not be satisfied because we should have won them all. You can't please them all, and like many other say, it truly isn't worth debating with many of these fans as they go by their perception of Michigan football instead of reality.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
I still find myself sitting in front of my TV on Saturday and expecting Michigan to win every game. And then if they start out terribly I get extremely angry. Once I get past that stage and into halftime, I remind myself that they can't win every freaking game and I calm down. But for the life of me I cannot go into each game with realistic expectations.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^
"... these people always seem to think that we had 10-0, 11-0 teams in that timespan ..."
So true ... in addition to being spoiled and whiny, some UMich fans also have very spotty memories.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:52 AM ^
Like most Michigan fans I find myself being impatient. The reason RR was hired was to bring Michigan forward in the 21st century football. Let's look at RR's head coaching history before we pull the plug too early.
At Glenville State RR went 1-7-1 in year 1; 4-5-1 in year 2; 6-4 in year 3; and 10-3 in year four.
At WV RR went 3-8 in year 1; 9-4 in year 2; 8-5 in year 3; 8-4 in year 4; 11-1 in year 5; 11-2 in year 6; and 10-2 in year 7.
The anomoly that stands out when comparing his 3 head coaching jobs is the 9-4 in year 2 at WV other than that, the records look pretty similary. Michigan can get up to 8 wins this year although I think 7-5 is more realistic. Then with more experience on the defense next year we are looking at 8-4 then in 2012 I think will be a year where RR really turns the program from middle of the pack Big Ten back to a BCS player.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^
I would tell him he has no right to bitch if he doesn't watch the games, and compare it to the old "if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about politics" thing on him as "support."
As for the answer to the question, I think their ignorance is the base cause of their anger. When you add in a fanbase that has been somewhat spoiled by success, and the general societal move toward shorter attention spans and more immediate gratification, it is easy to see why the "fan" who only follows football on a parochial and superficial level is going to "go postal" after a few subpar seasons.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^
I don't really have anything to add other than we should start calling fan anger "FANGER." I'm all in for brevity.
October 19th, 2010 at 8:05 PM ^
Hahahah, damn you for reading this 10 minutes before me. You get the trademark now. Sad face instert here. Lets try and co-author as my caps lock on the FAN part is/was totally orignal. Stupid time stamped posts.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:00 AM ^
Whatever happened to ignorance being bliss?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^
When it comes to sports or otherwise, it seems ignorance is only bliss if the circumstances appear blissful. Case in point, fans closing their eyes regarding violations if the team is successful. Or people embracing the American dream if they have the means to achieve that dream.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
He's usually one to incite fan anger.