TomVH: Demetrius Hart Update
I just spoke to Demetrius Hart's mom, and Demetrius is definitely not coming this weekend for the BBQ. Instead, he's on his way to a 7 on 7 tournament with his teammates......in Alabama. She didn't know if the 7 on 7 was at the University, or just in Alabama, and I haven't found it yet, either. It sounds like it is at the university.
His mother told me that he's very stressed out by the whole process right now, and they couldn't make it up to Michigan for financial reasons. They will try to reschedule it in the summer, or possibly for his official visit. They couldn't make this trip due to financial reasons, which is completely understandable.
She also said that nothing has changed with their opinion on Michigan, but they would like Demetrius to visit Auburn and Alabama. They want him to take his time, and make sure that everything is right. She reiterated that nothing has changed with their opinion on Michigan, but they wouldn't like to see him in a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" situation.
They're not sure when he'll make his decision anymore, so we'll have to wait and see. I'm not really sure either way if it's a good or bad thing for Michigan the longer it takes.
Actually, in your first response, I was asking who you would choose if you were a recruit.
So if you responded as an "adult" . . . then you answered the wrong question.
So whose reading skills are "lacking"?
Capt. obvious, are lacking. In my first response, I adjusted your simplistic characterization of the recruiting sales-pitch which follows here:
RR: I'll treat you like a person; Saban: I'll make you a NC and heisman winner.
I added the realistic things that are likely said or should be said. Then I made a choice in the shoes of a recruit based on the presumption that those realistic sales-pitches (not your bias version of what each program offers) were delivered. You? You simplify the obvious facts to make the obvious point that what? that Saban has a better resume!
When I (or presumably anyone) disagree(s) with your obviously simplistic approach and call you out on what you omit with bias, you send us all Saban's resume. It's obvious you're a stubborn Michigan fan who dislikes RR.
Yeah, thanks again Magnus Obvious.
All your writings that follow branch off your original post that carries obvioius bias.
First, why don't you tone down the ad hominem?
Second, Magnus has posted on this board for over four years and has proven himself, over that time, to not "dislike" Rich Rodriguez in the least. He is, however, realistic, and less colored by Maize & Blue glasses than others.
To remove "opinion" - Saban has a 68% career winning percentage to Rodriguez's 58%. He has 2 national titles to Rodriguez's none. It doesn't take bias to claim that Saban is a better coach, and trying to claim that someone with that resume (2 national titles) is better is hardly a slight againt Rodriguez. There are 3 active coaches with 2 national titles. Saban is in somewhat rarified air.
I guess I expected more from this blog than merely stating the obvious (resume 1 > resume 2).
Did you know Steve Fisher had quite the resume before he went to SDSU?
The point is that everything else comes down to personal opinion. You state yours like it's incontravertible fact, and if someone disagrees with you, they must be biased. That's silly.
Is there a reason why you insult everyone you respond to?
What insult have I used other than "captain obvious" to Magnus? Is that really an insult? I believe you described my posts as "assholeness."
I started this response merely pointing out that Magnus's characterization of sales-pitches was clearly biased. How can you argue it wasn't when it paints what RR has to offer as "I'll treat you like a person." From there, I've merely pointed out that a resume doesn't on its own show who the best actually are. If Magnus said in 1994 that Steve Fisher was the best coach based on his resume, would you believe him and defend him the same? Fisher is not IN FACT considered the best coach as we all know.
So what's my opinion stated as fact? That a resume doesn't necessarily show who has better skills and talent and work ethic and ethics? That's my opinion and I'd argue pretty well that it's also a fact. What's Magnus's opinion stated as fact? That Saban is IN FACT a better coach b/c of his resume. That seems like an opinion to me.
Fact: Saban has a better resume. Fact: Saban likely has the advantage in recruiting b/c of his resume. Fact: Saban can state he's a better coach as opinion backed up by his resume. Yet-to-be-determined fact: Saban is in fact a better coach than RR.
Somehow, even though recruits are kids, I have to believe that they know more about football and its business than Magnus. If they don't, then God help Michigan.
Come on. Re-read your posts, including this one. Note the tone. You're condescending as hell, and it's obnoxious. And yes, falling back on the tired "Captain Obvious" line is an insult. You're barely being civil. I just wish you would be. I know you're going to reply to this with a counter-point, but save your time, I'm not arguing with you about how I (and apparently MGoShoe) read your posts. It's how you're coming off.
I am condescending from the start, but it's directed to Magnus only. Why? Because he set up a question that in his mind has a wrong answer. I gave the "wrong answer" of saying I'd choose Michigan. From there, he sends us Saban's resume as proof that I answered wrong. The obvious part is that in posing his question, he had to expect people on this blog to choose Michigan. That's a reasonable assumption on my part. So was Magnus looking to tout how much better Saban and Alabama are?
Here's the other thing: His "question" asks for an opinion. "Who would you choose?" There is no wrong answer, except in the mind of Magnus. Why is there a wrong answer in Mangus's mind? B/c saban supposedly is a better coach b/c he has a better resume.
Prior to this sequence of posts, I've not been condescending whatsoever. My initial response to Magnus only showed how flawed his "set-up" was when comparing "sales-pitches" of Saban and RR.
As for my tone with you, I don't think I've insulted you at all. I called you defender of Magnus b/c you came to his defense by stating his reputation on this board -- which is a pretty weak argument when his posts stating Saban is IN FACT a better coach speak for themselves.
Dude, you're dead wrong. Give it up.
reason any recruit would possibly want to play for him over Saban, unless of course some recruits actually care about things other than just the coach's winning percentage, like I don't know...academics, tradition, facilities, teammates, assistant coaches, system, campus life, playing time, etc., etc.
And no I am not saying that UM is clearly better than Alabama in any of these catagories, but I bet there are some recruits who will think it is.
Seriously man, I get that some on this board are a little blinded by their Michigan love, but the same can be said about you and your RR hatred,
RR to acknowledge that Saban currently has a better program and looks like the better coach. Alabama just won a national title. We have not made a bowl game in the last two seasons. Our football program is just not at the same level as Alabama's program and that's what most top recruit value most.
Thanks for stating things much more properly than Magnus.
He "looks like" a better coach because he is.
OBVIOUSLY knows the ins-outs of the day-to-day coaching performed by Saban, RR and all the rest of the NCAA coaches. Since you know with knowledge and certainty which coaches are best, please enlighten us all with other nuggets of knowledge. If the NCAA investigates Saban next year, for example, for improper recruiting which leads to the removal of his NCs, will Magnus stand by his intricate and complicated analysis that determines that Saban is in fact the better coach?
Magnus, who's better? Brian Kelly or Les Miles? (Magnus: Les Miles b/c he has a NC)
Lane Kiffin or Phil Fulmer? (Magnus: Fulmer b/c he won a NC; USC hired Kiffin b/c it also doesn't know who the better coach is. I should be the AD of a D1 program b/c I know all)
Magnus attempts to show Saban's superiority over RR with his obviously superior resume to date. This is what Magnus considers new knowledge? that Saban has a better resume! Well when their careers are over, we'll have to wait to see who was truly better b/c RR is younger than Saban and has more years left to his career.
So, no, Magnus, Saban merely looks like the better coach. He may in fact be the better coach, but let us figure out if its fact ourselves, oh wise obvious one.
Yep, I hate Rodriguez. That's the only logical conclusion from my "Saban is a better coach than Rodriguez" argument.
Pete Carroll and Urban Meyer are better coaches than Lloyd Carr. I guess I hate Lloyd Carr, too.
"And no I am not saying that UM is clearly better than Alabama in any of these catagories, but I bet there are some recruits who will think it is."
You're right. I'm sure there are some. I provided a list of probably about 8-10 players who have chosen Alabama over Michigan in the last two or three years. If you want to prove your point, please feel free to list some players who have chosen Michigan over Alabama in the last three years. (I'm guessing that if you come up with any, the number will be significantly lower.)
are from the Midwest? Of course southern players are going to skew towards Bama. What players has bama gotten from the Midwest that UM was also in on? And don't say Ingram because he was never going to go to UM with his sparty roots.
Oh and I will be sure to tell richrod and his staff to give up recruiting Hart and any other player that Saban offers because according to you those players will never choose Michigan. Magnus for recruiting coordinator!
argument that I am saying you hate RR because you think Saban is a better coach. No my comment was based more on the 5000 other anti-RR comments you've made that have nothing to do with Saban.
Saban has been a head coach since 1995 (major programs only). That's 8 first round draft picks in 15 years. RR has been a head coach since 2001. Your comparison of overall records doesn't factor this discrepancy in career years in. Nor does it factor in RR's first season at WVU (3-8) and first two seasons at Michigan (3-9, 5-7). My point? Saban only seems like the better coach b/c of his recent success juxtaposed to RR's recent struggles. I don't claim to know who is the better coach, but I do claim to know that you don't know either. I'm certain many would agree that a team's success isn't determined solely by the coach's abilities; the circumstances of his environment play a part.
Continuing on with the "proof" Magnus provided us all:
Saban has 2 years of NFL coaching experience, however he has 15-17 record at that level (you know this, Magnus, but you chose to omit this).
Magnus mentions Saban's stellar year this past year as proof of what a great coach Saban is. Following this so-called yes-man, bandwagon logic, Magnus likely believes that Saban>Urban2.0>Miles2.0>Urban1.0>Mack Brown>Carroll>Miles1.0>Tressel>Coker>Stoops>>>Carr; just follow the national championships and you know who the best coaches are according to Magnus. Tressel didn't know anything apparently at Youngstown; that or Magnus knew of Tressel's greatness but waited until after NC of 2003 to let us all know what a better coach Tressel was than Carr.
Yes, yes, Magnus, please continue to enlighten us all with your bandwagon knowledge of who the great coaches are in the NCAA. I'm sure you believed in the greatness of Saban all the way back when he was coaching at MSU in 1995, BEFORE he won his national title this year. You just forgot to tell us all about your wisdom concerning Saban until after the 2010 NC, right? NOT.
Do I have blinders on by believing that RR is the best coach today? Nope, b/c I don't believe RR is the best and even if I did, I wouldn't state it as though it were fact.
It's pretty easy to label the 2010 NC coach as the best coach, but such a statement by Magnus also ignores that alot more than just the coach goes into winning a title. Maybe Saban's just the most effective recruiter b/c he flushes away the recruits who don't help Saban's individual goals before they graduate. This wouldn't make him the best recruiter b/c hopefully a recruiter's success is also judged by the number of the recruits he retains to graduation. So many possibilities, yet Magnus enlightens us with the obvious. Thanks again, Captain.
I think Saban can claim more than just "recent success."
He guided MSU to their best season in over 50 years in '99 (his 4th at MSU). He has an NC in 5 years at LSU and an NC in 3 years at Alabama.
For the record, I am an RR supporter and, as a rationale adult, I understand that a coaching comparison goes beyond wins and losses. However, there is absoluely no argument against Saban having a stronger resume and if I am putting myself in the shoes of a top rated recruit, Saban has more to offer. Why is this so hard of a concept for you to grasp?
was Saban's success before his NC (yes I forgot he won with LSU) enough for Magnus to determine back then that Saban was better than RR? nope. Saban had success at MSU by MSU standards. He was NOT a winner back then even though he was the same coach. This is more evidence that Magnus merely states the obvious (better resume argument) and tries to pass it off as some sort of new knowledge.
Magnus would have done all of us a better service by initially posting this:
Saban has the advantage recruiting b/c he has won more recently.
It seems Magnus is bitter b/c RR hasn't yet delivered a NC to Michigan. He should save his tears for those who actually care that he's bitter.
You need to cool it on the extreme assholeness.
I understand that you are new here. Magnus is not, at all. If your premise is that he "hates RR", that's something he has proven demonstrably false over posting ad nauseum on this site for years. He disagrees with you, that doesn't mean he's biased.
did I state that he "hates RR"? I merely inferred that he dislikes RR or RR's presence at Michigan by the fact that Magnus over-simplified RR's sales-pitch in comparison to Saban (all to RR's and Michigan's detriment). Why? so he could prove to us that Saban has a better resume? Genius.
Why are you defender of Magnus? Even if you don't respond to that question, why does my criticism of Magnus's obvious ommissions/bias merit the title of "assholeness"?
I'm newly registered, but that doesn't mean I'm new to reading this blog. And notwithstanding that discrepancy in status on this blog, excuse me if I don't take your assessment of Magnus as realistic or accurate.
You disagreeing with Magnus doens't make you an asshole. You insulting someone in virtually every response you make, your posts dripping with condescension make you an asshole, at least in the responses you have posted thus far.
I've disagreed with, and fought with, Magnus on many occassions, but you're not making arguments - you're building a strawman that Magnus dislikes RR, and using it to dismiss everything he says.
Since you dislike RR so very much
It's obvious you're a stubborn Michigan fan who dislikes RR.
Why else over-simplify RR's sales-pitch to recruits then (on a michigan board no-less)?
It is unreasonable, given that Magnus has defended RR to unreasonable attacks on this board for his entire tenure at Michigan.
excuse me for not being around to see Magnus defend RR for all these years. I guess criticizing Magnus's post isn't allowed then unless the critiquer ALSO KNOWS all that Magnus has done on and for this board. Come on. You tell me to make an argument on more than straws and then you respond with Magnus's "reputation on this board."
Magnus writes:
"Hi, I'm Rich Rodriguez. I'll treat you like a person."
OR
"Hi, I'm Nick Saban. I'll turn you into a Heisman winner and you'll win a national championship."
Which would you choose?
I answered the question. I did NOT choose Saban. This was NOT the response that Magnus wanted to see. Hence he gives us all Saban's resume.
Did you read the post Magnus responded to? The last sentence reads
Plus I just can't see how a player would want to play for Nick Saban, recruits aren't people to him their just a scholarship number.
So Magnus did not characterize the reason to play for RR as "He'll treat you like a person". He summarized the comment of the person he responded to. Do you get that?
that Magnus uses the opinion of another (the original post stating that Saban treats recruits like scholarships and not like people) to characterize RR's sales-pitch? How is characterizing a poster's opinion as RR's sales-pitch and then juxtaposing that characterization to one that shows Saban's resume (NC and Heisman) not biased? He also states Saban is in FACT the better coach in a later post? I disagreed with that position and his blatant mischaracterization of RR's recruiting pitch. Hence his very long post (to which I have lengthy posts also) showing us Saban's resume. So who can't be wrong again?
He's not criticizing RR's sales pitch, he's saying that you're wrong (which you are). Going to Michigan doesn't mean you know, as an incontrovertible fact, that it's a better place than Alabama. In fact, somebody who went to Alabama would probably say the EXACT OPPOSITE is true.
Without experiencing both, and from an unbiased perspective, you can't say one is better than the other. So fucking stop it.
If my posts haven't made it OBVIOUS, know that I fully accept Saban has a better resume to date. That's NOT something worth debating b/c it's a fact. My resume may be better than yours, but that doesn't mean I'm a better employee or worker than you.
Magnus simply replied to a poster who questioned why a recruit might want to choose Alabama over Michigan.
As far as whether or not Saban is a better coach than Rodriguez, how can we say for sure? Circumstances certainly play a part in determining success. However, results are ultimately the main measure of competence, regardless of whether or not you feel the results are circumstantial.
You are either dragging out this argument just for the sake of arguing or you are trying to read more into what Magnus is saying than what is in black and white. Saban is the better coach based on what is measureable, and that is what is most important to MOST top rated recruits. If you still can't accept this, do yourself a favor and Google "top college football coaches." I don't think you are going to find a recent poll that has RR over Saban. In fact, I think you will find that most of these polls came out before the 2009 season and they still have Saban over RR.
For your own sake, let this go. You are taking this debate to a level that was never intended. If you still feel the need to get in the last word, be my guest. I'm done.
PS: 10-2 is a pretty good record and not just by MSU standards. Since your whole argument is based on circumstance, I find it ironic that you overlook the fact that MSU is not exactly known for football success. Saban did what no other coach has done since the 60's by bringing double digit wins to MSU. The LSU administration recognized this so they brought him down south where he won NC in 5 years and turned them into a yearly contender. He took a chance at the pros and wasn't successful. However, there are not many coaches who are able to find success at both levels. He then went back to the college ranks and took Bama to a title in his 3rd year, Bama's first since the 50's. Based on measureables, I'd say he's a pretty damn good coach, recently and overall.
I agree that Saban's resume is better than RichRod's. However, you must mean some other Woodson than Rod because Rod Woodson (the famous corner for the Steelers and Ravens) went to Purdue and Saban was never a coach at Purdue. Is there something I'm missing?
Sorry, if this was already mentioned. It's hard to sort through the crap on this thread.
Rod Woodson was a safety in the class of 2009 from Mississippi:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/michigan/football/recruiting/player-Rod-Woodson-78340
"Hi, I'm Nick Saban. I'll turn you into a Heisman winner and you'll win a national championship."*
*unless a better recruit next year needs your scholarship or you get hurt.
You are offer number 29 and I have 22 scholarships to give.
are tricky. I'll give you this. You upped the odds that you would get at least one right by being consistent.
One of those tricky, tricky words....
Maybe we're all wrong, and that high schoolers do NOT want to play for championship coaches and programs.....
What on earth were you thinking when you said that about Saban?
Comments