Rodriguez responds to supposed comments about Trent...
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why not take some real criticism like a man. The whine isn't cool. Go Blue!
Pretty lousy job of journalism on the part of Bobby Deren: The "most controversial part" of his book is an unattributed story, yet:
Deren said neither Rodriguez nor Carr was interviewed about the story
I was wondering how this could have passed through the editors at a publishing house, only to find the publisher is Infinity Publishing, which is a self-publishing outfit.
Slipshod journalism + self-publishing = wholly unreliable book
As ridiculous as I think this story is, I feel it is Carr's responsibility to respond to this allegation. Even if it's a shallow, cookie-cutter explanation, it would make people feel better. Like someone else said, what is attributed to him does not seem like Carr's style.
Edit: From looking at the author's website (http://www.bobbyderen.com/) which links to his twitter, it seems that he and Trent are basically on a book tour together and also friends of some sort. It would be really disappointing if Morgan were stretching the truth in order to help sell books. That would be the complete opposite of Carr saying that a Michigan Man means being part of something greater than yourself. I'll reluctantly give him the benefit of the doubt.
Just another article for the freep to bash RR with. Hopefully, this was not a direct quote from Trent and Eden just twisted around what he said. Though I do remember Trent being kind of negative about RR. IMO...former players should either support or make no comments about the current coach!
I'm sure when LC took over for MO a few players may have been unhappy with LC style...but you never heard much about it in the press. Some of the fan base was moaning about LC the string of 4 loss seasons. I just hope RR realizes there are plenty of UM fans who support him...and hopefully he can win over all those who are against him in the next few years.
So I guess this means that Freep should be offering Bobby Deren a job pretty soon considering his newly developed anti-Michigan credentials.
Whether Rodriguez said these things or not, Morgan's play did drop off from the previous season. Playing two seasons for Rich Rod did not hurt Brandon Graham at all. Then again, BG is a hard working, team guy who doesn't fault others for his failures.
why David Cone did not go in the first round either. I heard New England want him to replace that slug Tom Brady, but some corch bad mouthed him.
Footbaw is such a soap opera any more.
I wish someone would write an article about how much his draft stock would have improved if he had not been burned continually throughout his career.
Also the guy is a Nickel. He didn't go into the league and lock people down like Champ Bailey. He is the 5th best DB on his team...maybe worse. At Michigan he was expected to shut guys down and could not do it. This seems like an indication that Trent does not have the skill set to be a top DB at the next level. 6th round seems about right for a Nickel corner. Oh and if it wasn't the emergence of more Spread packages (Thank You Spread Pioneer Coaches Like Rich Rod) he would be out of a job. If teams still ran more power football sets teams would go with an extra linebacker not a nickel corner. 10 years ago Trent would play about 5 snaps a game.
Also I would have drafted him in the 6th round just to have his mom at our games.
First you say he'd be out of a job without spread formations. Then you say that prior to the spread, he would only play 5 snaps a game.
I wish someone would write an article about how Scott Shafer did ridiculous things on defense and immediately got fired, and the person responsible for Shafer's hiring (and subsequent neutering) is the guy who's still in charge at Michigan.
Some of you are placing blame EVERYWHERE except on the shoulders of Rich Rodriguez. This isn't just directed at you, A_Maize_Zing, but people on this board have blamed all the players, Bill Martin, Lloyd Carr, Mike Gittleson, etc. . . . everyone except Rodriguez.
Why can't you just accept the fact that Trent was a decent college player who was screwed over by the coaching change and/or poor coaching? You point to USC as evidence that Trent sucked, but Leon Hall (a 1st round draft pick) and the rest of the country got burned by USC, too. He's in the NFL now and earned a fair amount of playing time on a pretty good defense, so maybe - just maybe - there were extenuating circumstances.
If you want to take issue with Morgan Trent opening his mouth about this stuff, so be it. But most of this Trent-bashing is basically just an attempt to drag him down and make his statements seem less relevant.
Some of you were all over Donovan Warren's nuts a few months ago, but from what I can tell, Trent was a 6th rounder and Warren wasn't deemed worthy of being drafted. Hmmmm...maybe Trent was even better than your perceived savior at cornerback.
Who said Donovan Warren was the savior? DO NOT LOOK AT THE AVATAR OF DONOVAN WARREN LOOKING LIKE HE COULD BE CRUCIFIED! I SAID DO NOT LOOK AT THE AVATAR!
I was saying that there were so few Nickel situations that teams wouldn't have to carry as many DB's. Since there would only be 5 snaps a game that would be nickel situations there would be fewer nickel corners in the league. I guess I never got around to making that connection...sorry.
The nickle long predates the current manifestations of the spread. It became widely used in the 70s as teams became more pass oriented and went to more 3 WR sets. I'd warrant that most NFL teams have played nickle or dime at least 25% of the time (if not more) since at least the advent of the west coast offense.
Shafer was also hired by Jim Harbaugh (the guy so many want to replace RR) and was immediately hired by Syracuse when he left UM. Obviously there were issues gelling with the rest of the staff and the players, but acting like hiring the guy was some preposterous blunder is silly when the rest of college football seems to respect his ability to coach.
Morgan Trent didn't have a slump his senior season. He was a mediocre player who underachieved (based on his fantastic physical ability) throughout his career which included three seasons under Lloyd Carr and Co. where he failed to impress. Was he screwed over by poor coaching then? I don't remember anyone thinking he was a lock to get drafted going into the 2008 season. Trent wouldn't have gotten drafted after his junior year either (like Warren). The difference is, Warren was a quality college player who lacked the speed and athleticism NFL scouts look for and who entered the draft a year too soon. Trent on the other hand is a phenomenal athlete who despite putting up awesome combine numbers only went in the 6th round because he never did much of anything as a college player.
And let's not act like he is setting the NFL on fire. The guy is a backup/situational defensive player who probably won't see the field much if at all going forward now that his team has gone out and signed Pacman Jones. He has played like a decent 6th round pick, not become a pro bowler or starter now that he is free from Rich Rodriguez's horrible coaching. His premise that he would have been a 3rd round pick if not for things no one seems to have heard RR say and that RR himself vehemently denies saying is what is being countered by people. Since no team in the NFL would trade a 3rd round pick for Trent right now (even after he has had a chance to show his stuff in the league), myself and others find his claim to be a gross exaggeration.
"...acting like hiring the guy was some preposterous blunder is silly when the rest of college football seems to respect his ability to coach."
I mean, Shafer was fired after one season (and basically demoted by the Purdue game). He also helmed an atrocious defense. Regardless of his success elsewhere, there are two options:
a) Shafer sucked at Michigan
b) Rodriguez and Co. made Shafer's defense suck
Either way, that's a giant blunder.
You have no idea whether Trent would have been drafted after the 2007 season or not. That's pure conjecture.
I'm not acting like Trent is setting the NFL on fire. I understand what a nickel corner is, so I'm not saying he's great. But at the same time, Michigan fans at various times have said that he "sucked" and continually cut down his play. If he actually "sucked," he wouldn't be in the NFL. Michigan fans are just pissed off that Trent has said negative things about Michigan, so rather than taking a rational, objective viewpoint, they're attacking his abilities in an attempt to discredit his statements. He did not suck as much as many Michigan fans want to think.
With the benefit of hindsight we can see that pretty much everything went wrong with the 2008 defense. My point was that the initial decision to hire Shafer is understandable given the fact that Harbaugh and now another D-1 coach have also hired him to coordinate their defenses in the last few years. He didn't fit in at Michigan but I think the shitstorm of a shift in philosophy, differing philosophies on the coaching staff, disgruntled players not buying in and/or being frustrated by the team's early struggles, an awful offense that couldn't score or hang onto the ball, and a less talented than usual defensive roster would have made that job tough for anybody.
As for Trent, I am definitely not saying he "sucked" but I know that at no time during his Michigan career, which included two years as a starter under Carr and a year as a starter under Rodriguez, did he ever play like a 3rd round pick. In the NFL he has yet to play like a 3rd round pick (he finished tied for 13th on his team in tackles with zero interceptions last year and is likely going to play less and/or get released next season based on the Bengals recent roster moves). For him to complain that Rodriguez bashing him (which I doubt happened, but that is beside the point for these purposes) bumped him from a 3rd to a 6th round pick is laughable (especially when the Bengals coaches/scouts in the article claim they gave no creedence to the alleged bashing).
I'm still not sure Shafer would have failed here if given the time (and talent). I also think we did need to make a change, but he was largely a sacrifice.
Warren I guess just did more with less and people respect him for it. I mean if you compare Junior seasons of both players Warren is the better player...with 4.6-4.7 speed and only a loose grasp of the english language he still out performed the uber athlete that was one Morgan Trent.
Oh and I am not bashing Trent but any idea that the guy was anything besides an ok player is just wrong...he was an ok college player and ok college players go in the 6th round...I think we can all live with that. 3rd round pick corners are top 10-15 corners in the country...I don't think anyone wants to include Trent in that conversation. That does not mean he sucks, it just means he isn't on that level.
"and only a loose grasp of the english language"
Maybe I'm misreading this quote, but if I'm not, this is definitely not a necessary comment. I didn't neg you, but there's no need to rag on a kid's perceived level of intelligence.
Do not judge me until you join his twitter account.
I will give him points for never saying Fuck Lion
I will never be able to judge you
This story has really been blown way out of proportion. The fact is was that Morgan Trent was never really good to begin with. Everybody brings up his senior season but I thought he was never really any good even when Carr was here. He didn't show much effort and he deserves the comment he got from Rodriquez. I wouldn't want a coach to lie about a player to the NFL people in the first place.
He actually was pretty decent. He was so decent that despite what you think you saw and despite what Rodriguez reportedly said, he was still drafted in the 6th round and was the nickel corner for a pretty solid defense.
Ignore the facts at will, though.
Yes he is a Nickel corner (the 5th best DB) He was inconsistent his whole college career and had to be moved to a position in the NFL that better suited his talents as a marginal corner at the NFL level. He was drafted in the 6th round because he had a very good workout...which we all knew he would have. If he had performed better during football games he would have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick...he didn't and he wasn't. These sure seem like facts when you look back.
4.47 - 40
23 - Bench Reps
4.01 - Shuttle
38 inch Verticle
He was a top performer in almost every drill he participated in, except the "on-field performance drill"
Here is Nfl.com pre draft analysis
“Trent had a lot of starts in college and he runs pretty well. He's fast in workouts but does not play to his timed speed. He's not a good tackler. There have been questions about his backpedal and he struggles in route recognition, but his athleticism gives him a chance.”
Where is the part where it says...he was really good but his D-Cord and Head Coach fucked him? I must have missed it.
You mean he has great measurables in almost every category . . .
. . . and your conclusion is that coaching had nothing to do with his performance?
Despite the fact that Rodriguez fired Shafer after one year (and essentially demoted him prior to the end of the season)?
Come on. That's basically an admission that Shafer sucked at his job, and he was Morgan Trent's position coach. Are we conveniently forgetting the anger/confusion that flooded this board when Michigan's cornerbacks were playing 10 yards off the receivers in 2008?
You're saying coaching had everything to do with it. The only thing that we know is that was athletic enough to be a great college corner, and he wasn't great. It seems likely that he was partially to blame. Schafer was his coach for 1 year... out of 5 in college! Why are you conveniently forgetting that?
My Conclusion?
He had a lot of coaches. He didn't get screwed by any one.
"You're saying coaching had everything to do with it."
No, I'm not. I'm saying that factors into the equation.
Trent spent his first year in college playing receiver, so that one doesn't really count.
But he improved somewhat from his redshirt freshman year to his redshirt junior year. At the time, I thought he was on his way to having a solid senior season. Then there was the coaching change, Trent and Warren played 10 yards off the LOS, and Shafer got fired immediately after the season.
What I'm saying is that a lot of people are saying "Har har Trent sucked in 2008" when even Rodriguez decided that Shafer sucked and subsequently booted the DC.
You know what most of the posts on this thread remind me of?
Another story with shaky evidence that puts RR in a negative light? Yup, sounds like Freep material to me!
I like Lloyd. I also like Rich Rod. And grapes. I like most fruits, actually. But not bananas, for some reason.
I love bananas, especially banana cream pie. Mmmmmmm. Healthy.
It's the film they leave on my teeth that does it for me. I love banana flavor, but can't eat a banana because of that damn film.
doesn't strike me as the type of guy that would submarine one of his players. And Lloyd isn't the type of guy that would tattle like a 13-year old school girl. What possible good would this do for either coach, or the University of Michigan? I mean, seriously, does any of this sound the least bit accurate? No way.
No, doesn't sound accurate. But since when have the words "accurate" and "Freep" been at all related?
You do realize that the Free Press wasn't the original publisher of this story... In fact, they weren't even the 2nd publisher of this story. The picked it up after RR issued a response to the Bengals publishing part of the original book.
So, if you have an issue, take it up with the author. Or the Bengals.
With your "facts" and "logic".
*spoken in Homer Simpsons' voice*
The story was featured as a Freep.com "blog" item before RR issued his denial. The first story was a blog post by Kirkland Crawford on May 7. The Mark Snyder story (also categorized as a "blog" item on the Freep website) regarding RR's denial of the allegation was on May 8. Basically, the Freep ran with it as fast as their little fingers could hit "Enter."
As for the Free Press' original reporting, if they are interested in this story (What's that you say? That the Free Press is indeed interested in a story that attempts to paint RR in a negative light? I'm shocked...), then the Free Press ought to be tracking down Morgan Trent for questions. And the Free Press ought to be tracking down Lloyd Carr -- I'd expect that if Carr will not answer questions, the Free Press would be reporting, "Despite repeated requests for comment, Carr would not answer questions concerning the story..." And that is exactly the kind of exposure Carr deseves if he won't answer the simple questions, dierctly.
The easiest thing for the Free Press to do, and the thing that hurts RR the most, is for the Freep to do nothing. Nothing except to say, "Author Bobby Deren states..." So presumably, that is just what the Free Press will do!
And yeah, it is not all about Carr and the Free Press. I think Darren and Trent have a lot of explaining to do. I hope somebody forces them to explain themselves too.
Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for some investigative journalism?
3 phone calls:
1. To Trent: Did Carr say that? What did he say...exactly?
2. To Carr: Did you say that? What exactly did you say?
3. To RR: Did you say that? What exactly did you say about Trent when asked by Scouts regarding Morgan Trent?
Won't happen of course, easier to slam RR with mis-information than with facts.
Prediction, were someone to actually, investigate:
1. Answer: That's BS, no comment.
2. Anwer: That's BS, why would you ask such a stupid question? No comment.
3. Answer: That's BS, I only talk about players that play at Michigan. No comment, except to say, 'Our helmets have wings'.
As already stated this in incorrect. And anyway, whether the orginal source was them or not, it still does not change the fact that they will almost always do everything they can to paint Rodreguez in a negative light no matter what the truth is.
And the "insights" just keep rolling in.
I wonder just how many more comments are going to be added to this thread that essentially repeat what was already said, often many times over, in this thread or the original one? Any bets on the over/under?
I bet my left nut that it will be over 63 comments.
...at MVictors.com has this to say:
So a couple things here. First, I’m struggling to find a motivation for Rodriguez to trash Trent unless you believe RR truly is a big prick. What does he have to gain by dumping on a player to scouts – what, to help explain a crappy season to guys in the NFL? Doesn’t add up. At best I can see Rodriguez, when asked, being honest in his assessment and maybe about an incident or two that put Trent in a bad light. Beyond that, it would seem to only boost Rodriguez and the reputation of Barwis and crew to get more players drafted and to have success in the NFL, even if they were only around for a year.
I’m not sure what to make of the Carr stuff, and I guess I’d like to hear from him specifically what he heard and what he told Trent, or better yet, hear this corroborated by a few NFL scouts. I’m sure a lot of scouts called both Rodriguez and Carr to get the skinny on Trent, and those scouts probably shared information with the coaches.
As far as Carr allegedly spilling the beans about Rodriguez badmouthing Trent to Trent - I guess I’ll say that in a perfect world Carr and Rodriguez would meet at Coach and Four every day to talk football, kinda like those guys in Hoosiers. But that doesn’t happen and nowhere is it required that all Michigan coaches (past, present and future) be pals.
There's more and it's worth a click.
I dont get it. I just wasted 5 minutes trying to find out why that is worth a click - I dint see anything new that this guy adds. What am I missing?
...any Michigan blog cover this yet? MGoBoard doesn't count.
It's worth a click because mvictors.com should be high on your list of Michigan blogs (you know, the ones that Brian recommends over to the left). Greg is the authority on Michigan sports history and clicking there helps to support its continued existence.
After going there and wasting my time trying to find more on this particular issue, I had a suspicion your advice was more about sending clicks his way than anything substantive. I'll keep that in mind for your future recommendations. I am sure some have time just to go and browse just for the heck of it, but I don't.
uh, I'd say youtube and game film could also reasonably explain why Trent slipped. I mean, I was kind of surprised he got drafted at all.
When, pray tell, did Morgan Trent prove to be an elite defender? I have no memory of him being anything more than "somewhat improved from last year" during his career. That Trent got drafted and D. Warren did not makes zero sense.
In my humble opinion, this isn't news. Everyone should shut the fuck up. Morgan shouldn't be complaining. If he's better than where he was drafted, he can prove it on the field, like, uh, Tom Brady. There's no reason Carr needs to say anything. What Rich said was enough. Don't need anything more. Move on. this is media muckraking if you ask me.
I don't love Rich, yet, and I don't love Carr. all this extra curricular bullshit is totally tedious. It's time for the play on the field to speak for itself. Either it's a winning season and we move forward and get the extra practice for post season, giving us momentum into 11... or, we fail yet again, and Rich Rod's done. 3 losing seasons in a row is enough.
It's not happening, though. We'll collect our 6+ and move on with our lives. It's all going to be fine.
There isn't anyone who can honestly say that Trent had a good final year here. Whether it was the coaching change or a lack of commitment on his behalf, he had a shitty year.