OT: Question on HIIT Training
Bear with me, and suspend your Mike Gittelson (for you youngins', he the S&C coach under Carr) 'eat a pizza before bed' PTSD; fortunately we have left that era, along with two other eras. Harbaugh.
Anyways, just picked up Bigger, Leaner, Stronger (https://www.amazon.com/Bigger-Leaner-Stronger-Bodybuilding-Weightliftin…) - looks like there's a decent amount of science behind this routine? Looking forward to reading more of it this evening after work.
Is anyone working out and using a HIIT program? To be honest, I've never lifted much but I am pretty lean/althletic (5'9/150lbs) and I've got a fair bit of self control with respect to my diet. Looking to get more into strength training and the concept of these short/intense workouts, the results, and fitting this all (most workouts are under an hour?) into a busy work schedule is appealing.
Care to elaborate on your claim? How do you equate that to resistance training and muscle growth?
To simplify I'm sayin sprints > a long jog. So it's more a cardio and endurance improvement thing, not a strength gaining thing.
So back to my original point. HIIT is more typically associated with cardio than resistance training. HIIT is great for conditioning, but not the most effective way to gain strength or muscle mass.
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As with all things fitness-related, the appropriateness of a program depends on your goals. I imagine that, in light of your particularly lean physique, you'd like to put on some muscle mass. If so, HIIT sessions--which are primarily valued for their tendency to promote fat-loss and muscle-retention--would be a perfectly fine ancillary component of your training (e.g., for heart health and general physical preparedness), but they should not be the centerpiece; your foundation should be heavy compound lifts (e.g., squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press) fueled by a significant caloric surplus from relatively clean food sources.
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I did some HIIT sessions a couple days a week (never two days in a row) mostly on an elliptical to accelerate fat and weight loss to take pressure off my knee. It worked for me, but like with anybody, it depends on individual health and goals.
HIIT is not great for building strength, it's much better for cardio and fat loss. Gittleson was actually mostly right regarding strength gain, lift heavy shit and eat a lot.
If you are serious about putting on muscle, I can't recommend Starting Strength enough. I took a series of group weight lifting classes based on his methodology because I had 0 barbell training and wanted to do it right. In 6 months I put on 30 lbs, some was fat, and then cut 25 lbs and was considerably stronger and leaner.
Here's the book: https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Basic-Barbell-Training/dp/0982…
The main exercise is the backsquat. You do a linear progression adding 5 lbs each lifting day (typically 3 days per week) and that quickly builds up since you're going up 15 lbs a week or 70lbs a month. Very quickly it will be the hardest set of 5 you've done in your life but the results are very noticeable.
I did this for a while until I hurt my elbow, got married, and eventually joined a crossfit gym. I also drank the requisite gallon of milk a day to go along. I also gained 30 or so pounds and got up to my heaviest and strongest, but oh man was it tough work adding weight every session/week. I'd suggest watching a ton of videos on form as well as reading the book, I know Rippetoe says (paraphrasing) 'I wouldnt have written a book on how to do a clean if I thought you couldn't learn to do a clean from a book' but it's really helpful to see people break it down in slow motion in a video.
I love pizza, I also love sleeping
I used a version of it for rock climbing, but focused specifically for grip strength. I thought I got a lot of initial benefit from it, but then tapered off quickly. It caused a lot of wear and tear on my hands, so I stopped doing it. The system I was using recommended doing 2 weeks of this training in a 6 week cycle to save wear and tear, for what it's worth.
Put the book down and just lift heavy shit
About 4 years ago I was 234 pounds at 5'11" (not a good 234). I had to fix my diet & got rededicated to lifting. Within a year I was 190 and in another 6 months I was 174 and you could see my abs on a good day. Since then, I’ve gotten as high as 198 during the winter but have been able to get back into the 170’s by the time summer came around.
These past few years the summer cycle down to the 170’s have consisted of using super-sets in order to get a cardio element into my weight training as opposed to running or using the stationary bike. For instance yesterday was back & shoulders, sets consisted of:
5 sets of: 5-8 pull-ups (inside/close grip), cybex shoulder press (5 reps), wide grip pull-down (8 reps), 75 crunches
5 sets of: 5-8 pull-ups (outside/wide grip), dumbell military press (10 reps), seated row (8 reps), 75 crunches
It sucks, but it gets the job done.
That being said, at your weight, I'd just focus on a standard strength/weight lifting program, maybe a 5x5.
i'm 5'11 236 right now, my goal is to get to 210 by the end of the year. started 3 weeks ago at 242. wish me luck! good to hear a success story!
Good luck, a really good trick is to write a log of what you do. Whether or not you go back and read the notes you made, just writing them down helps you keep a habit. That is if you're having trouble. I know I have trouble keeping a habit with lifting and this helped. Use fit bit or whatever app you may have for exercise, or pen and paper.
I totally agree, especially when it comes to my nutrition. I got serious about what I put in my body and have been logging everything in the myfitnesspal app. helps me see where i'm at during the day and keeps me accountable.
Logging what I eat has made a huge difference in my mindset and motivation
I'll keep it really simple.
What most assume your goal is from your stats: Gain lean mass.
What you should do: lift weights and eat a clean surplus (to gain mass) and use HIIT (to remain lean without losing that mass).
HIIT is great cardio to keep lean without losing the muscle you gain from your lifting.
Extreme example: look at the physique of sprinters vs. long distance runners.
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Sprinters carry more muscle mass because their sport demands a high level of power output. Most notable sprinters include a significant amount of low-to-mid rep heavy compound lifts in their training protocols to promote Type I muscle fiber growth and improve overall power output. By contrast, marathon runners don't particularly benefit from carrying excessive amounts of lean tissue, because the extra weight contributes to the overuse of anaerobic metabolic pathways, which generate significant oxygen debt, and ultimately drain glycogen reserves prematurely: this is particularly problematic in long races, as studies have shown that glycogen reserves in trained athletes typically drain anywhere from 90-120 minutes -- the time after which gluconeogenesis (the creation of new glucose from proteins in particular) begins to effectively ramp up.
While it's true that running distance has the potential to downregulate intermediary muscle fiber types to Type II fibers, the overall effect on a person's physique is relatively negligible. While there are plenty of examples of sickly thin marathon runners out there, there are also plenty of examples of guys who cross train and have the physiques of bodybuilders despite also competing in marathons, etc. The most obvious example is Alex Viada, who competes in ultramarathons, triathlons, and other endurance events while also maintaining a 700-pound squat. The dude is huge.
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Do 4 sets of 9 reps, 5 sets of 7 reps, 7 sets of 5 reps, 9 sets of 3 reps doing Squat, Bench, Overhead Press, and Deadlift. You will do each lift once per week with each lift having one of the set/rep schemes described. Once you've done every set/rep combination for each lift that is a cycle. Do two cycles and track all your results in a spreadsheet. After each lift you can throw in 4 to 6 auxillory lifts of whatever you enjoy for 10-12 reps usually unless shrugs or calves. Then do 30-40 reps as those respond better in this range. Once 2 cycles are completed have a de-load week where you do higher reps and lower weights and then two more cycles and so on and so forth. Get plenty of rest. Reduce stress. Eat at a slight calorie surplus. Acquire mad GAINZ.
EDIT: Additionally the weight you use should be based on % of your max. I'll let you figure that part out. It's best to only start failing on the last set. If you fail way before that then decrease the weight. If you get every rep, then increase the weight by 5 to 10 lbs.
learn the hard way i say
5'9" 150lbs? I pull chunks of guys like you out of my stool!
For both cardio and also lifting (kind of). For cardio I will do 1 minute walk/1 min sprint for 15 to 20 minutes or 1 minute job/1 minute sprint for 15 minutes.
The way I bring HIIT into my lifting is to rest for only 30 seconds between sets (yes, I still do heavy days with little rest between sets) or I replace rest periods with 30-60 seconds of cardio (jump rope, jumping jacks, mountain climbers, etc) between sets.
OP, ive read the book. Some good insight if youre interested in weight lifting. Worth the read and youll gain an understanding of nutrition, exercise science, etc.. Has some workout programs already in there, but really once reading the book you should be able to create your own no problem or at least know what to look for in a premade routine.
Some great comments/stories in the thread, I really appreciate it. I'm a newbie to all this, so the anecdotes help.
For my situation, it sounds like I'll want to follow this -
'What you should do: lift weights and eat a clean surplus (to gain mass) and use HIIT (to remain lean without losing that mass).'
along with these lifts - 'Squat, Bench, Overhead Press, and Deadlift', to begin with.
I would agree... HIIT a couple times a week is plenty of cardio if you're keeping your diet clean. Will actually help you build muscle as well.
That is probably the best plan available to a newbie lifter. Keep your program as simple as possible, and try not to fall into the trap of doing too many "assistance" or "sculpting" exercises, as they will not benefit you nearly as much as the basics. A few sugestions:
For chest, primarily do bench press, incline press and dips. For the presses, either bar of dumbell will do, and you should try both.
For back, I like pullups, but if you can't get 8-10 with good form, do pulldowns instead. Also do bent over barbell rows and dumbell rows.
For shoulders, I would stick to dumbell shoulder presses and upright rows with a wide grip can also throw in some lat raises as a finisher as these really hit the shoulders well.
Arms are an area where new lifters try to get way too complex. Again, simplicity is the key. I would recommend that your bicep workout consist of barbell curls (use EZ curl bar if your wrists are an issue) and alternating dumbell curls. For tris, I like close-grip bench press and skull crushers.
And finally, legs. I know they are not considered a show muscle, but DO NOT skip or gloss over them. The legs are the largest muscles in the body, and when you train them, you release growth hormone that benefits all of your muscles. Stick to basic squats, front squats, lunges and leg presses. Add in 1 direct calf exercise as well.
One final recommendation - take your time and learn proper form on deadlifts and power cleans. These are awesome mass builders. Once you have the form down, you can work in the deadlifts with your back routine and the cleans on your shoulder or leg days. Again, these are great exercises, but if you are not strict with your form, you can get seriously injured.
As for reps and sets, I personally like 3-4 sets per exercise, with most sets taken very close to failure. For rep range, I like to alternate between heavy days (4-8) and lighter days (8-12).
Hope this is helpful.
i think the best advice for someone who can't do 8 pullups is to buy a pullup bar and do one or two every time they walk by it until they can. i don't think there is a better exercise than the pullup. my arms changed dramatically when i incorporated them ... a decade or two ago.
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Nothing helped me, personally, more than this. In the doorway, on the way in or out of the room, 5 pullups. Not only was I able to really increase the number of pullups I could do, I learned to get everything I needed out of the room the first time.
I did this too, put it in the bathroom door, also practiced squat form and glute activation while sitting on and getting off the toilet =P
I would add it's important to track and trach and trach and then also track your lifting numbers and bodyweight/body measurements. Don't get caught up in daily fluctuations, but compare weekly averages. If you can see steady progesss you will be more motivates. Use a flexible measuring tape to measure arms, thighs, waist, etc. at the thickest point and re measure very 2 or 3 weeks. I say do this because bodyfat% is very inaccurrate unless you spend a lot of money for the dexascan hydrostatic weighting which can still be off a few % points.
I would track your calories and weigh your food for a few weeks until you can eye ball it. You don't need to get too crazy with accuracy until you get really lean. You don't need to eat many small meals. Hell if one big meal works for you then go with that. Research shows that there is barely a difference. Just eat the # of meals that is most convenient for you to get the required calories. I eat only Eucalyptus and it works great.
Some background before I give my comments. I am also 5'9", and for years, I was a relatively lean 150ish. Around 12 years ago, I decided that I wanted to add some serious muscle, so I spent the next year reading every single thing that I could get my hands on re: lifting - books, magazines, online blogs, etc. I then spent the next 2-3 years experimenting with a host of training methods, primarily aimed at gaining size while staying relatively lean (meaning body fat that woud max out at around 16% in the winter and get down to 9-12% in the summer. At 40, I am not 192 with 10-11% body fat.
From my experience, HIIT is an effective form of cardio. However, while it is short in duration, it is intense, and if done 2-3 times per week in addition to 4-6 days of heavy intense lifting, it can tap into your recuperative ability and result in the loss of some muscle mass. This can, however, be overcome, if you make sure to take in adequate protein (for you, I would say around 180 grams per day spread over 5-6 small meals / shakes), don't cut your carbs too drastically and get plenty of sleep. I also find that adding 5-10 grams of BCAAs and 5g of glutamine following my HIIT sessions really works to prevent the muscle-wasting effects.
As for lifting, as some in this thread have pointed out, HIIT is not really thought of as a lifting program, but what I think you are referring to is HIT (high intensity training) - the philosophy pioneered by Mike Mentzer in the 1980s and used by Dorian Yates in the 1990s. For those who are unfamiliar, this involves relatively short lifting session (under 1 hour) with each body part receiving direct training far less frequently than traditional lifting sessions - sometimes as rarely as once every 10 days. The catch is that the sets are taken to extreme failute with rest-pause, drop sets and forced reps to really tax the muscle.
I have tried HIT training. My personal view is that it is not the most effective vehicle to build lean muscle while at the same time not putting on too much fat. With respect to the muscle building effects, I don't think that the average lifter will put in te level of intensity to reach ultimate failure as required by the program to achieve the desired results with such short and infrequent lifting. With respect to body fat, less time in the gym can lead to additional body fat accumulation if one is not careful, especially if the lifter is taking in significant extra calories as recommended by HIT proponants. I also think that for the average gym rat lifter - i.e. not a D1 football player or bodybuilder with a staff of trainers - this type of training can lead to injury due to the extremely heavy loads and the fact that form will tend to break down as the lifter goes past ordinary muscle failure.
That said, where I think that HIT lifting can come in handy is as a change of pace for those of us who follow a more traditional program. If you are used to lifting 1-1.5 hours a day, 6 days a week, trying HIT can, in fact, shock your body into new growth. I have used it effectively in this manner several times. But, be careful not to stay on too long as those initial gains tend to try up in 4-6 weeks.
Excellent insight - thank you for sharing this.
Check out Millionaire Hoy's channel on YouTube. I've been doing his workout videos for a couple years now and love them. He's got hundreds of HIIT workouts that you can do from home - ranging from 15 min to an hour. He's been doing a lot of fundraising lately and the production value has gone way up, as well. (This probably sounds like an ad but I am in no way affiliated with him - just love his workouts)
i am 47 and have 11% BF. I do hiit regularly. also google tabata. and do bikram yoga. also steasdy state cardio has its place - aim for 30-40 minutes at 60-75% of your max HR (bpm).
but it's all diet: you can train like a beast but if you eat lke a pig you will look like a pig. if you do nothing in the gym and eat clean you will look pretty good.
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You can effectively lose weight by cutting calories, increasing caloric output, or a combination of both. It is erroneous to suggest that one is more effective than the other.
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By using undefined terms like "shitty diet," it's impossible to make objective claims regarding the effectiveness of exercise with regard to losing weight. I've personally gotten down to about 8-9% BF on what most would consider a "shitty diet," but I was also turning over close to 6,000 calories a day between work and running 4-5 miles a day 6 days a week.
In any case, claiming "exercise does very little for weight loss" is about as meaningful as saying, "driving your car is not as good for gas tank balance as monitoring how much you put in your tank to begin with." You can't talk about one without the other. Ask any registered dietician.
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