Michigan vs OSU Lacrosse Live BTN

Submitted by tlo2485 on

Michigan vs ohio state live on BTN from the horseshoe. Wolverines up early 2-1.

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mlax27

April 16th, 2016 at 10:00 PM ^

I played at a similar time as you, but I thought it was about the players not being serious. I remember guys getting high on the bus trip to an away game, I remember losing to ucsb in the quarters and our captain coming off the field saying he just didn't really feel like competing that day. I remember JP punishing us for something stupid we did off the field and guys up in arms like we should walk out of practice that day. We were still of the club mindset. In 2008, JP took a much more serious approach, implemented some weight room time, and suddenly the team was dominant. I felt like JP was handicapped during my years and couldn't really get after us like he had to (which I would have loved and if I could do it all her again I would have spoken up).

Joined: 11/23/2010

MGoPoints: 2052

Sten Carlson

April 17th, 2016 at 2:24 AM ^

"I attributed that simply to coaching." Of course you did, you were on the team that had those losses. Rather than looking at your, and your teammates's, heart, preparation, and skill, you attribute your shortcomings to someone else's shortcomings. Lacrosse isn't football, it's a lot more like basketball in that one person can take over a game and carry his team to victory. Sounds to me like these kids from the elite schools back east didn't have the will and the drive to beat the teams they simply couldn't "out-talent." Jimmies and Joe's not X's and O's. Why didn't you or one of your elite school buddies will your team to victory against those elite clubs? Was JP doing something tbat kept you from digging out that ground ball? Or maybe he didn't teach you how to shoot properly so you missed the cage at a critical moment? If JP needs to go, he needs to go. So be it. But I think is pretty lame for a former player to come in here and attribute his own shortcomings to his coach. Play better. Play harder. Score more goals, make more checks. You're the player! The eye test, like the eye test under Hoke, is that the kids aren't giving their all. They're a bit tentative and thinking too much. Is that coaching? Well, when Harbaugh came in it became obvious it was. Some of the issue, IMO, is on the kids themselves, just like it was on you and your teammates who couldn't beat those teams you listed.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

WichitanWolverine

April 17th, 2016 at 10:20 AM ^

If a coach is bringing in better talent (and against most teams back then MUCH better talent) than the opponent, then ultimately they are responsible for the attitude of the team and W/L of the program. So you want to hold Hoke responsible and not Paul? Fine.

The guy put a lot of time and effort in to getting the program to varsity level and I will give him credit for that. But it's time to make a change.

Joined: 09/30/2009

MGoPoints: 34351

Sten Carlson

April 17th, 2016 at 11:04 AM ^

I'm not saying it's not time to make a change. I'm saying your comments dogging JP's coaching ability are lame considering you were part of those teams and apparently weren't up to the task of leading YOUR team to victory, and the same could be said about these elite players of whom you speak. Hoke was part of the equation, but only part of it. He was inept in many ways, but so were the players -- neither one operates in isolation. JP might not be getting the best/most of his players, but his players also aren't giving their best. Again, my only beef with your comment is that you were on that team. Now, if you had beat those elite clubs through person Herculean efforts, and despite ineffective coaching, I wouldn't take exception. But, you didn't, you couldn't, and now you're here saying, "yeah, it wasn't my fault, our coach sucked ..." What's worse, you're basically making the same argument for the players now -- they're elite, they've got all the support, yet they're not winning ... It's not THEIR FAULT it's that crappy coach. I find that offensive. For example, I wouldn't expect coach Harbaugh -- were he to be in your situation -- to be trashing his former coach. I'd expect he would say something about he and his teammates not coming through it the biggest games, and how they need to dig deeper, etc. Again, if JP isn't the guy to take the program to the next level, fine. But don't for one second think that some of that failure rests on the shoulders of the players.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

Sten Carlson

April 17th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^

No. Let me put it simply. I think your comments are chicken shit! It wasn't coaching that caused you guys to lose, it was you and your weak ass teammates getting out hustled, physicaled, and out scored by those teams. Without acknowledging that, you're just looking for excuses for your own failure. Maybe it's my advancing age, but that type of weak lack of responsibility irks me. Grow a pair and at least put a qualifier like, "we didn't get it done ..." before you trash a guy who busted his ass for you! People outside the program can comment on coaching alone because they didn't have any responsibility for the success or failure on the field. Those INSIDE the program, if they're to be taken seriously IMO, have to man up and take some of the responsibility on themselves -- which you've not done.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

gwkrlghl

April 17th, 2016 at 1:37 PM ^

No matter how hard you 'bust your ass', if you're never taught to do it right then what's the point. I bet a lot of Hoke's players busted their ass every week and there were some who didn't. Either way, Hoke's staff failed to teach them properly. Sounds like JP is in a similar position

Joined: 04/13/2012

MGoPoints: 72

Sten Carlson

April 17th, 2016 at 1:41 PM ^

I agree 100%. But that's not my point here. A lot of Hoke's players quit. So, if this were a thread about Hoke being inept, and one of them came in here saying Hoke was a bad coach without putting some of the blame for the losses on themselves and their teammates, I'd say the same thing to them.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

jdizzle

April 16th, 2016 at 2:24 PM ^

All you have to do is look at Marquette to see where we should be at. Started their program the same year, lost to #1 ND this week in OT, and if they split their last two games (a down Duke and a beatable DU) they'll be in the tourney (in the Big Easy nonetheless). That's the FLOOR of where this program should be, arguably better bc of the resources and academics we have.

Joined: 10/30/2009

MGoPoints: 1297

chatster

April 16th, 2016 at 2:43 PM ^

EDITED: To account for Boston University's 13-12 road loss today to 13th ranked Loyola of Maryland on a goal with nine seconds to play.

If Michigan is going to consider a men's lacrosse coaching change after this season, here’s an under-the-radar coach to consider: Boston University’s Ryan Polley. In BU’s third season as a varsity program, Polley has led the Terriers to an 8-5 record this season and is 16-25 so far in his three seasons at BU. His teams improved from 2-12 in his first year to 6-8 in his second year.

 If Michigan can get Polley and also get him to convince junior face-off specialist Sam Talkow to transfer to Michigan with Polley (Talkow’s a Business School student who’s second in the NCAA for face-off win percentage), then Michigan might be receiving upgrades in coaching AND at the “X.”

Boston U's competition might not be considered all that strong, but there are as many Patriot League teams currently ranked in the Top 20 for men's lacrosse as there are Big Ten Teams, and BU already has a win this year over 10th ranked Navy.

Joined: 09/14/2010

MGoPoints: 26930

DenverRob

April 16th, 2016 at 3:12 PM ^

I expect Michigan to be a top program in all sports expect baseball. College baseball just doesn't suit northern teams well. It's not impossible, just unlikely.

Lacrosse is huge in Michigan high schools. Five years is way to long for a coach to build.



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Joined: 08/05/2010

MGoPoints: 2339

Roland Deschain

April 16th, 2016 at 3:33 PM ^

I tend to agree. While I know nothing about lax, I expect Michigan to be able to at least compete. And - given the program started roughly if not exactly the same time as Marquette - it's frustrating to hear about their results to date versus ours. Again, I really know nothing about the sport, but it seems we should be further ahead of where we are now given our resources, piggy bank, and brand.



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Joined: 07/17/2015

MGoPoints: 564

phjhu89

April 16th, 2016 at 4:57 PM ^

Quint Kessenich's "Fact and Fiction" column on Inside Lacrosse addressed Princeton's vacancy, and who he would bring in to interview.  I would say that the same people would be choices for Michigan.  Frankly, its a lot easier to recruit to Michigan than Princeton.  

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/quint-fact-and-fiction-separating-contenders-and-pretenders/34761

Fact: Princeton (3-7) fired coach Chris Bates and will hold a search for a new coach at the conclusion the season.

Opinion: The Tigers are no longer at the top of the heap in the Ivy League. Yale, Brown and Penn have passed them. A turnaround starts with hiring the right coach combined with increased administrative support. If I were leading the search I'd bring in Harvard assistant and former Cornell head coach Ben DeLuca, Towson head coach Shawn Nadelen, Hobart's Greg Raymond, a former Princeton assistant, Tufts head coach Mike Daly, Denver assistant John Orsen and Benson, the Johns Hopkins offensive coordinator, for interviews. Nadelen is the front-runner.

Joined: 05/16/2009

MGoPoints: 711

chatster

April 16th, 2016 at 6:07 PM ^

Candidates Princeton May Consider 

I previously commented on Boston University's Ryan Polley as someone whom Michigan might consider. LINK

Joined: 09/14/2010

MGoPoints: 26930

phjhu89

April 16th, 2016 at 5:03 PM ^

The question of recruiting has been raised many times during the discussions of whether JP should get more time.  As many have pointed out, a large proportion of the elite programs are recruiting really early - 8th, 9th grade.  (including my alma mater - and its an that many of us Hopkins alums wonder about - is Hopkins missing out on too many great late bloomers?)

Anyway, from the same article I linked to above, Quint Kessenich points out that there is plenty of talent left out there after Hopkins and UVa have scooped up the early commits. 

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/quint-fact-and-fiction-separating-contenders-and-pretenders/34761

Fact: There are more than 3,700 high schools playing varsity lacrosse nationwide. New York has 402 programs. Maryland has 226. Lacrosse is booming in California with 259 teams. Florida is growing rapidly with 201 squads.

Opinion: The 70 Division I college coaches have never had more talent to evaluate. Good players and athletes in non-traditional areas are slipping through the cracks and end up playing DII or DIII. Late bloomers are finding a home in the MCLA, the club league that now has 213 teams including most of the Power Five schools like Oregon, BYU, Arizona State, Clemson and Florida State. Combine this explosion with early recruiting, where coaches offer scholarships to eighth, ninth and 10th graders, and you have a volatile recruiting climate. The winning intangibles aren't evident in a ninth grade prospect — work ethic, leadership, being a great teammate, reaction to adversity and social skills are complete unknowns.

Joined: 05/16/2009

MGoPoints: 711

chatster

April 16th, 2016 at 6:29 PM ^

Decades ago, football players and wrestlers who weren't interested in spring track and field might've turned to baseball for a spring sport. Now, they have lacrosse as a viable option for a spring sport.

Top-level soccer players and basketball players have club soccer and AAU basketball to turn to in the spring. And with the increased development of hockey rinks, top-level prep hockey players often will be playing on club teams during the spring. But in those areas where lacrosse has been growing, it's often the football players and wrestlers who are giving lacrosse its next generation of athletes.

 

Joined: 09/14/2010

MGoPoints: 26930

Wolverine Devotee

April 16th, 2016 at 7:39 PM ^

The "only had a team for five years" excuse is no longer valid when there are programs that have been around in less time that are ranked, winning games, beating ranked teams and going to the NCAA Tournament.

Sure there have been one goal games this season. There also have been a disturbing amount of undisciplined plays going on during these close games. 

Hell, just look at the eye test. Watch the powerhouse programs play and how crisp they look with everything they do. We often don't look like we know what we're doing out there on defense and even offense. 

I noticed this comparison during a Denver-ND game. That is how lax is supposed to be played. 

I say we go after Denver assistant John Orsen. 

Joined: 06/29/2009

MGoPoints: 31528

mlax27

April 16th, 2016 at 10:11 PM ^

Pressler also went back to his alma mater and has turned down big offers since. They were the only ones who would go near him after that, and he wants to remain loyal to them. Deluca also has some baggage in that he allowed some hazing I believe, but that seams like something you should be able to get past.

Joined: 11/23/2010

MGoPoints: 2052

Real Tackles Wear 77

April 17th, 2016 at 2:28 AM ^

Mike Pressler's alma mater is Washington and Lee, a D3 school in Virginia, and he is now coaching at Bryant, a D1 school in Rhode Island. Anyone who saw the 60 Minutes about him would say he's probably never leaving there. HOWEVA, he is Connecticut born and bred so maybe there's a relationship with Warde, and the chance to take over a relatively new program with a shiny new facility on the way may be tempting. I'd hope Manuel at least makes that call.

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 9688