OT: DH coming for NL?
Per Cardinals GM Jon Mozeliak, there is an increasing (if not certain) sense that the DH could be coming to the National league as soon as 2017. Personally, I am for it. I would rather see professional hitters do the hitting and pitchers do the pitching.
I have never understood the argument that having a pitcher bat adds strategy; it would be like the NFL requiring QBs to also play linebacker or something. Makes zero sense to me. I would rather have uniform leagues, uniform rules, and have players do what they are the best at.
January 18th, 2016 at 5:03 PM ^
It's not a matter of keeping up with the times. It's that some people legitimately enjoy the NL style better for what it has to offer. Some don't enjoy the NL style, and that's what the AL is for. I like the NL style better because I like to pretend that I'm Tony LaRussa or Mike Matheny and make/predict the changes that will come. That's a fun thing to do in the NL. With the DH, that's really boring in the AL. 4.5-hour Yankees-Red Sox games that finish 9-8 with 5 HRs put me to sleep. To each his own.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:33 AM ^
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January 18th, 2016 at 12:55 PM ^
And lets get rid of replay because human error was always part of the game!!!!
/s
January 18th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
I'll be honest: I prefer the idea of all nine players playing both offense and defense. In theory, at least.
In practice, however, it's really frustrating knowing that 1/9 of the lineup is basically a guaranteed out. So, it seems better for the game to have a DH.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^
I think my HS coaches would have too.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:56 AM ^
and the DH is never used for the pitcher.
January 18th, 2016 at 3:13 PM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^
Free Outs!
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January 18th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
So you've watched probably, what, two or three games of baseball?
January 18th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^
The double switch is heralded as one of the key items the AL doesn't have to deal with year in and year out. Maybe stick to that next time you respond.
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January 18th, 2016 at 11:19 AM ^
Okay, so you "got" me here. You are literally the only person here even talking about the double switch, so I don't feel particularly obligated to respond to the argument you are having with yourself.
In addition, the "free outs" scenario you describe is becoming increasingly rare in the National League (not HS baseball) that we are talking about. In a 27 out game at most two of those are even theoretically "free" as you describe them. Others in this thread have pointed out even that assumption is questionable.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:45 AM ^
Source: Baseball America.
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January 18th, 2016 at 11:59 AM ^
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January 18th, 2016 at 12:08 PM ^
Interesting. I have no idea how 86.2 % feels compared to the historic average, but this will always come down to a difference in what people prefer, which has been expressed by people throughout this thread.
Even so, you're talking about 86.2% of two ABs each game.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:42 AM ^
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January 18th, 2016 at 11:01 AM ^
If you're not a well-rounded player, you won't get playing time in a lot of sports. There are countless basketball players who couldn't defend at the NBA level and ended up out of the league. If a baseball player's defense is so poor that he can't even be stashed at first base or one of the corner outfield positions, I don't feel that bad for him.
What's with all the "1920" straw men here? Both leagues had pitchers batting until the '70s and the NL still does. NL teams regularly win the World Series and seem to be doing fine in terms of attendance, so I'm not sure what is so outdated about their approach.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:18 AM ^
I don't like it simply because it's irrational.
You've got 9 guys on a side. 8 of those guys have to play both ways. Some can do everything. Some can't hit a lick, but you deal with it because they're good with a glove (Alex Avila). Some are defensive liabilities, but you deal with it because they've got a great bat (Cabrera @ 3B).
There's an element of give & take at 8 of 9 positions. For some reason, at some random point in time (1973), baseball decided to make an exception for just one position. Makes no sense. Why that one position? What if your pitcher is a .300 hitter? Why can't you use that DH for your crappy catcher? Everybody else has to do both, but somehow the pitcher got some inexplicable exemption.
Somebody above tried to compare to other sports. You can't. At least not the 4 major sports. Hockey & Basketball are free flowing. Football has clearly defined offense & defense - so it's comparable, but modern platoon football is like having 11 DH's.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:28 AM ^
DH for both leagues and you can DH for any position rather than just the pitcher?
LOVE THAT IDEA! An element of coaching strategy there. Great work.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:57 AM ^
I think you're trolling, but yeah, that'd make more sense than the current rule. I honestly don't care which way they go with the DH. I'm used to AL ball.
It just never made sense to me why they singled out the pitcher. Why not DH all 9 positions if that's what we're gonna do? SO MANY RUNZ!!!!
January 18th, 2016 at 4:17 PM ^
you can DH for anyone. it doesn't have to be the pitcher. just like you don't have to bat the pitcher 9th.
January 18th, 2016 at 4:31 PM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 4:17 PM ^
I don't know. Pitching is a specialty that 8 guys don't have to practice or do. Having the one guy that has to pitch, not hit, doesn't seem to be that big of a departure.
January 18th, 2016 at 4:33 PM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 9:44 AM ^
Possible motivation for breaking from NL tradition and not having the pitchers hit is the decline of offense throughout baseball and, Mozeliak acknowledged, the injury concern for pitchers.
I think that the fear of injury has been a primary motivator for years, even going back to the early 1970s and the years right before the AL adopted the DH. Actually, there was that and the fact that pitchers are not everyday players and also end to historically be deadweight (comparatively speaking - there are examples of pitchers that hit well enough) in the lineup. These are the arguments lodged 45 years ago, and they are applicable now, I would think.
Even so, I don't see the NL making the switch - if they ever do - that quickly. I do see the other side of this, that some of the strategy that makes certain situations in NL games interesting might be diminshed (pinch hitting, double switches, etc...)
January 18th, 2016 at 12:21 PM ^
Possible other reasons from Mozeliak: This 42 year old guy hit a double against us and our pitcher Wainwright could not get out of batters box without snapping his achilles heel. The Astros database we hacked into said we have crap hitting pitchers. The Rams left St. Louis b/c the DH was coming.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:44 AM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 11:11 AM ^
Why is uniformity so important?
One of the things I like about baseball is how it isn't uniform in a lot of ways. The playing surface, the amount of foul territory, etc., is different in every ballpark. Quirkiness is good.
January 18th, 2016 at 3:46 PM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^
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January 18th, 2016 at 11:00 AM ^
pitchers get maybe 2 ABs per game. the rest are pinch hitters. the game really isn't affected much by the DH.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^
I guess I'll play the role as the curmudgeon here, though I'm only in my late 20s. Not having the DH in the NL is my preference for two main reasons:
1) Having pitchers hit forces compelling managerial decision making that isn't obvious to casual fans; it adds a layer of depth at both the tactical and strategical levels. As an example: when in a close game in the mid-to-late innings, managers face a dilemma when deciding to leave a starter in who's performing well, or pinch hitting with a runner on base. Seeing how teams deal with things like that is a lot of fun.
2) The DH is basically an outlet for guys who are incapable of playing baseball. I have a lot of respect for David Ortiz's career, but it should have ended years ago. The core of baseball is what happens on defense, which is what players spend 99% of their baseball careers doing. If you can't even hack it at first base, you have no business putting on the uniform.
Don't even get me started on the wild card play-in game.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:54 AM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 9:58 AM ^
I personally find making the best out of a bad situation much more interesting than assembling a fantasy roster, so yes, we will always disagree.
I know that Ortiz has done a lot in his DH role, and I'm happy for him and Red Sox fans. He still has no business playing baseball if he isn't capable of playing the easiest position on the field.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:59 AM ^
primary DH's in the 40+ years that were actually fun to watch. The other was Edgar Martinez. A lot of them are dead weight on a roster who can't be used in interleague play in NL parks or the World Series if a team gets there.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:25 AM ^
"Dead weight??!" LOL
As if Adam Dunn couldn't be considered "dead weight" in the other 50% of the game that is played (it's called defense).
January 18th, 2016 at 11:37 AM ^
I wonder how many homers Ruth would have hit(or hotdogs eaten) if they had the dh back in his day? I'm a traditionalist and would prefer the dh to go away. That ain't happening so at make the rules uniform in both leagues.
January 18th, 2016 at 1:24 PM ^
People like to bray about this endlessly but it just isn't true. Defense is, at BEST about 25% of the game. Both pitching and hitting are definitly more important. If you have a team with great pitching and great hitting, you can definitely get away with some shoddy defense. It will annoy you from time to time and lose you some games, but I'll take great hitting and pitching over great defense any day.
Of course, certain positions are more important than others. If you can stock your up the middle D (SS, 2B, CF, C) you can be more cavalier ignoring the other positions.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:52 PM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 10:36 AM ^
Rick Ankiel
January 18th, 2016 at 4:18 PM ^
smokey joe wood. i got his autograph when i was a kid. a reporter once asked walter johnson who threw harder, johnson said "sir, no one throws harder than smokey joe wood".
imo, wood had one of the best seasons ever in 1912: 34-5 with 3 wins in the world series. he blew his arm out though that season then came back a few years later as just a hitter; and a good one at that.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:52 AM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
The most wonderful and hilarious moments in NL games are when pitchers get hits that change games. That goes double for the times when a pitcher hits a home run that accounts for the scoring in a game. Madison Bumgarner, anyone?
January 18th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^
Moments like this aren't as rare as people think they are, either. Sure, pitchers generally suck at hitting, but over the course of a team's season a handful of games are decided by these moments and it's awesome. Like Spike going HAM in the title game.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^
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January 18th, 2016 at 11:56 AM ^
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January 18th, 2016 at 9:57 AM ^
Don't like it, but I'll get over it.
January 18th, 2016 at 10:12 AM ^
January 18th, 2016 at 10:19 AM ^
follow the money!
It is more popular with fans, but, AL payrolls are higher because there is another full time player. That is why the NL owners have resisted going with DH.
If they believe they will make more in ticket sales, et cetera, with a DH, than the extra salary will cost, that is when it will be done.