UM back into the top 25 next year?.

Submitted by michelin on
To determine how realistic it would be for UM to get back in the top 25, I reanalyzed the changes in the Sagarin ratings from last year to this year.

The conclusion (see analysis below): The task of getting back into the top 25 in the national rankings is daunting, since to do so, we must change and improve our Sagarin ratings more than any other B10 team did from last year to this year. 

The good news: Only one B10 team improved last year more than UM did (Indiana).

Also, I would guess that we had as many key Freshmen playing in 2009 as in 2008.  That won’t be the case next year.  Thus, in 2011 and 2012, there should be a lot more upperclassmen added to the UM lineup, compared with other teams.  So, things are definitely looking up.  But the progress may not be as fast we’d like.

 

Summary of details (based on the Sagarin Predictor ratings--which unlike the ones used in the BCS that ignore point spreads--are the best predictors of actual game results).

 

UM gained about 3-3.5 points in the Sagarin ratings from last year.  

Just improving by 3-3.5 points again next year (from 2009-10) would move us clearly above Purdue into 6th place alone in the B10 (assuming that, for each B10 team that improves next year, there is one that declines equally),

But improving by only 3.5 points next year would move us up no further, since there was a big gap this year between the 1-5 teams and the 6-11 ones in the B10.  In fact, to move into the top 4 in the B10 and the top 25 teams in the nation, we would need to improve by about 10-11 points—at least three times the improvement made from 2008-9.  

Is that doable?  I think so but it would be the biggest jump either way in the past 2 years for a B10 team.  To put it into perspective, note that from 2008-9

PSU lost 10 points

NW lost 8.5 points.

Iowa and Illinois lost 7 points (surprising since Iowa’s now in a BCS bowl). 

MSU lost 2.5 points

OSU, Minn and Purdue and were unchanged.

(OSU did not improve, despite Pryor going from being a Fresh to Soph probably because they lost Wells).

Wisc was only one of two teams to gain as much as UM did:  3.5 points.

Only one team, Indiana, gained more than us: 8 points.

So, to gain 10-11 points next year in the Sagarin ratins, we must gain more than any B10 team did this year.  We must change slightly more than any other team changed in either direction (PSU made the biggest change by losing 10 points).

 

2009 sagarin

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm

2008

ttp://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

Comments

DoubleMs

December 9th, 2009 at 2:23 AM ^

False. If Michigan beats UConn and ND (they will be ranked going into the season with Kelly at the helm), we will hit #25 minimum in week 3. Rankings are Resume based, at least in theory. In fact, Michigan's name carries an awful lot of weight with an awful lot of pollsters.

SysMark

December 8th, 2009 at 9:11 AM ^

We really just have to get out and win games, starting with UCONN and ND. The schedule will be perceived as soft upfront and even 5-0 or 6-0 probably won't get us ranked. I don't care about that - it is the end that counts. The first 5 games are very winnable, followed by MSU and Iowa at home. Assuming we win those first 5 that is where the rubber will start to meet the road, not unlike this past season, though hopefully with fewer offensive mistakes. I remain optimistic.

jamiemac

December 8th, 2009 at 9:13 AM ^

Obviously, the opener vs UConn becomes a huge swing game. But, I dont thinks its unreasonable to see a repeat of this year's 4-1 start through five games. From there, cant you make a case that next year's slate is a big more manageable with three of the next four at home, as opposed to the three of four on the road we played in the Big 10 this October? Michigan went 0-4 in those games, but against the same foes, with three at home, you'd like the to think we can at least improve a single game, right? If not two. I can see the same thing happening as this past season. Getting to the Illinois game in late October, needing one win for bowl eligibility. It's at home, hopefully they can win it and maybe one or two in the final three, instead of the woeful losing streak to close this campaign. I think 7-8 wins is a reasonable expectation/hope, with some ceiling yet to reach with the right breaks, or with the wrong breaks, something less.......which would probably mean a Jim Harbuagh interview one year from today.

michiganfanforlife

December 8th, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^

what next year will bring is tough. In the past I have been always upbeat, always predicting good things. It's hard right now to say that this team will be good next year. I think the worst thing that could happen would be for the team to go 6-6. I hope that they are either really good or really bad. I want to be "all in" for RR, and I was for these two years. Now I feel like he should shit or get off the pot. I know that trying to move on could set us back even further, but if this guy can't win at Michigan three years in a row (at least a winning record) then he needs to go. Looking back on the season, I still can't believe that the only Big Ten team we beat was IU, and that was because there was a horrible interception call at the end (When two players catch a ball at the same time, the tie goes to the offense). On the brighter side of the coin, many of our losses were by a small margin. We were actually beating most of the teams we played in the 3rd quarter. Our defense had their best game at the end of the year, and we beat OSU if Tate just throws 3 INT's instead of 4. Having the same coaches on defense will help, but is an undersized guy at every level a good thing in a smashmouth conference? I guess I will be glad if we go 7-5 this year, but if I heard myself saying that after we beat down florida in Lloyd's last game (and knew it was me two years later talking about year three of RR) I would be physically sick. I am sick about the state of this team right now. I will always go to as many games as I can, and watch every second of every game. I guess my point is that all the optimism has been wrung out of my soul, and logical thought doesn't lead me to good places right now. Here's to hoping that this team can turn it around next year.

turfboy

December 8th, 2009 at 9:19 AM ^

7-5 is resonable, but not worthy of a ranking...sagarin has it flaws, note northwestern, but its a decent guide....by the way how did our hoops team start out at 15? they scare me as much as the fb team if not more....

Elno Lewis

December 8th, 2009 at 9:35 AM ^

in 2010. Seriously. Its not a static conference. The other teams are improving, as well. The Big Ten is getting stronger. And, we are still young. Michigan probably has more internal strife than most of the other teams they face. Tate is still a small QB who can't see over his undersized lineman, and opposing D's still have him figured out. Denard is not going to turn into Johnny Unitas by fall. The D is not going to turn into the Steel Curtain. yada yada yada. In fact, the 2010 season scares me quite a bit. I don't think we'll have the OMG BREAKOUT season that will unequivicably save RR's job--he could end up getting splatted--and then we go right back into our NotreDame-esque freefall. Changing systems is very, very hard sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes. UM is one of those 'sometimes'-- for whatever reasons. RR is going to need 4 or 5 years, at least. So, maybe impatience is our most dangerous foe at this point--and we need to change this quick like a bunny.

michelin

December 8th, 2009 at 11:35 PM ^

I too worry about fan impatience. That impatience produced the kind of pressure that led ND to change coaches too quickly over the last 20 years, IMO. Also, you are right that it’s not a static conference. My impression has been that there’s been more and more parity. However, the analysis I reported at the beginning of this diary did not really see an overall improvement in B10 teams from 2008-2009. It showed a decline. All but 3 teams in the B10 (um, ind, and wisc) either declined or stayed the same in the Sagarin ratings. It would be useful to look at prior years to see if this decline in the B10 was just a one year deal or a more sustained trend.

UNCWolverine

December 8th, 2009 at 1:13 PM ^

I appreciate the analysis. But to be completely honest I think it's much more simple than that. Either our defense figures it out or it doesn't. Either our LBs/safeties learn how to cover 260lb lumbering TEs "sneaking out" over the middle or they do not. Either our corners are able and/or allowed to begin 3rd and 4 plays within 4 yards of a WR or they do not. Either our DL can improve enough to overcome losing Brandon Graham or they do not. Not trying to be cynical but after what I saw on that side of the ball this year the difference next year between 8-4 and 4-8 is that simple, IMHO.

wolfman81

December 8th, 2009 at 5:06 PM ^

Consistency from the offense. Consistency in holding onto the football. Consistency in executing the offense. There were a few games (Illinois, Purdue, MSU to name a few) where if the offense was a bit more consistent they could have easily turned into wins. Red zone TOs killed us against Illinois. Punch in that TD, Michigan is up 14 (iirc) and Juice is done for the game, maybe the year. I believe that Michigan had the ball last against Purdue, score there and win. MSU is a bit more complicated...but the offense was stalled until the unlikely 4th Quarter comeback. Same offense and improved Defense gets close to 8-4. Same with Same defense and improved Offense. Improvements in both probably get to 10 wins. (Wisc, Iowa, PSU, and OSU are all on the table as wins in increasing order of likelihood.)

michelin

December 8th, 2009 at 9:22 PM ^

Holding onto the ball is important. So is scoring in the red zone. The failure to score at Illinois after Roundtree's catch had a snowball effect. It gave energy to the Illinois offense and, I believe, helped precipitate the collapse of the UM defense on the very next series. Also, the shorter time your offense holds the ball, the more defensive stops you have to make. UM's terrible offense in 2008 probably made the defense look worse than it really was. This year our O was better than the D. But the O and D are still highly inter-related.

michelin

December 8th, 2009 at 9:10 PM ^

But I fail to see how your analysis is so much simpler. I showed how a single factor—the range of Sagarin rating improvements in the B10—affected our chances of getting into the top 25 next year. You have mentioned, by my count, at least five factors. 1. Defense in general 2. LB performance 3. CB performance 4. DL improvement 5. Overcoming loss of BG I don’t mean to be critical, but I fail to see how that explanation is simpler than mine. Also, you don’t seem to offer or support an opinion about how likely it is for UM to accomplish these goals. Just saying “either we will improve XX or not” does not really answer the question. By contrast, I provided clear evidence, which helps us gauge the chances of improvement and adjust our expectations for next season. But I would criticize my own post as well. In fact, my evidence of UM’s chances next year—although based on clear data and providing clear implications—was itself far too simple. Your comments are useful in filling in some of the details. I agree that all of the factors you mention are important. In fact, the comments of many others below suggest many other pertinent factors as well. So, it's not "that simple." Still, I value your comments as well as those of many other people who have commented on this issue.

Bill45

December 9th, 2009 at 12:15 AM ^

What is the minimum number of wins Rich Rod has to get next year to get a year 4? Six? Seven? Eight? And against what teams do these wins come? Brian Kelly took over Cinci in 2007, just a year before RR took over UM. The year before Kelly got to Cinci it went 7-5. Same as Michigan in Carr's last season. Cinci is a basketball school with no real football tradition. But, in just his second year at Cinci, Kelly was 11-2. Cinci is now 12-0 and is the 4th ranked team in the nation going into the bowl season. In your wildest dreams do you see RR going 12-0 or being ranked 4th at the end of next season, in his third year? Ask yourself, why is that such a ridiculous expectation? Answer: Rich Rod's system is so specific to its needs that it cannot produce results in the same time frame that Kelly was able to at Cinci or a dozen other coaches were able to at other schools. IOW, RR and his system are the problem,not the solution.

joegeo

December 9th, 2009 at 2:56 AM ^

First, record alone does not determine how a coach is doing. So there will be a lot more factors that determine if RR keeps his job. I'd say for him to keep his job, the team has to continue improvement on the field. It doesn't need to equate to a bunch of wins just. I'd say he has one more "free" year in which he can get away with just about any record. 6-6 (3-5) would most likely buy him another year. Below that, and depending on the new AD, he's fair game. As far as your other comments. 1) Cinci, just like 115/120 Bowl Division teams did not start a true freshman qb. Youth is a real problem in the short term. If my only goal was to win tomorrow, I'd take a 4th and 5th year laden team of 2 and 3 star recruits over a 1st and 2nd year laden team of 4 and 5 star recruits. 2) Your big qualm is apparently with RR's system, which is just so specific that it can't work without precise players. Well it seemed apparent to me that the offense - his system, and operated by a true freshman qb - was not and won't be the main problem on the team. The main problem is the defense.

msoccer10

December 9th, 2009 at 9:46 AM ^

Our "talent" has been very young and inexperienced on both sides of the ball for the last two years. Who thinks that a 19 or 20 year old who has never started a college football game will be stronger faster and more knowledgeable about their scheme than a 22 or 23 year old who has been in a system for 3-5 years? Our "talent" based on incoming recruiting rating was pretty good. Not great. And we had massive attrition. I am not going to quote the actual numbers because others on this site already have. We did not have better talent on a player by player basis compared to Purdue or MSU if you consider their experience and age. Next year we are returning more than 11 players who started on offense including our starting qb, leading wr and best two offensive linemen. On defense we are returning more than 11 players who got a start last year. Health and chemistry will be our biggest issues. If we don't lose anyone crucial, I am telling you we will be good. Improved in all aspects of the game except punting. Just look at USC. They have far better "talent" than us and anyone in the country based on recruiting and still had more experience than us. I think the only true freshman they played regularly was Barkley. And yet despite having an established extremely successful program, they struggled this year and should have had four losses. And the reason most people state for their "struggles" (I would kill for a three loss season being a horrible year by the way), is inexperience. Our schedule is very manageable. I am worried about UConn but if we get past them 9-3 is doable. I think a reasonable expectation for next year is 7-5, but I believe we will win more.

michelin

December 9th, 2009 at 10:36 AM ^

Consistent with your point, many people say that the biggest improvement comes between the freshman and soph years. So, we could expect big things from Tate and Denard. I do worry a little when I think of Henne doing worse, going from the Rose Bowl his Fresh year to 7-5 his soph year. But he lost Braylon that year. Also, remember how disappointing Braylon was early in his career? I don't think he came around until his Jr, possibly even his Sr year. Even then, to motivate Braylon, it took a lot of criticism by LC, who publicly said Braylon was not reaching his potential. Remember the statement about Braylon not getting the #1 jersey until he deserved it? Right now, if RR challenged certain players in that way, the vultures in the press would jump all over him, saying that he is blaming the players for his faults. But, it's the players who are on the field that determine the outcome of the game. Maybe, some of them will need a kick in the rear to realize their potential. If they do play up to their potential, who knows how high they could climb?

michelin

December 9th, 2009 at 11:02 AM ^

The fact that this somewhat pessimistic diary was posted on the anniversary of the massacre at Pearl Harbor is purely coincidental. Besides, we ended up winning that war. I expect that UM will do likewise.

maizedNblued

December 10th, 2009 at 12:31 AM ^

...you say exactly what I have been saying for quite some time but you say it a lot more eloquently. The Athletic Dept. completely dropped the ball on the searc. We had departing quality seniors in CH, MH and JL leaving early however we also had Ryan Mallett (highest ranked QB ever to sign) and Super Mario, Arrington and some very good talent still in place as well as incoming. I was ALL for change but I firmly believe we didn't need a complete shift in philosophy, one which led to our sudden demise and one which could have definitely been avoided with proper management and thought into the whole situation. I think everyone agrees that RR will eventually get this program turned around but was it necessary to take all these steps backward as a result?? I stand firm with a resounding NO! I completely blame administration for not communicating properly with appropriate personnel to figure out the course of action for the opening. I have worked in college athletics since I graduated and one of the many issues I have come across is that the so-called "higher upers" are sometimes so oblivious and arrogant as to ask the simple question to the simple people who actually work under their noses. It seems in this case, they figured they could take care of this by themselves without any assistance from the very people who are the most knowledgeable given the situation.

michelin

December 10th, 2009 at 11:38 AM ^

I am not in a position to judge who is responsible or whether mistakes were been made in managing the transition from LC to RR, I think that RR has been unfairly blamed for many the problems. The problems which began before he came, would more properly fall to the people who were supposed to manage the transition. Also, I am not saying that a mistake was made by management in choosing RR or in letting him choose his own staff. Although I have a sentimental inclination to wish that they kept people like Loeffler and English, I’m not in a position to second-guess RR’s judgment about the long-term best interests of the program. Indeed, it is precisely the long-term best interests that need to be paramount. IMO, when RR was hired, problems with cronyism had inhibited the kind of changes that would move the program in a positive direction. However, there is a delicate balance between not allowing cronyism to inhibit change and—if, as you suggest actually occurred-- not using the information that existing personnel can provide. Personally, I have no direct knowledge of what the situation was during the coaching search. So, it really does no good for me to point fingers. Anyway, I do not pretend to be an expert in management. I fully support RR and am excited to see what he can do with the program in the next few years. At the same time, I believe that, in the future, especially in the AD search, we need to value highly the person’s capacities to envision the value of change and to manage possible problems arising from it. Much knowledge exists about the possible sources of management errors and about methods to prevent them. I hope and expect that the next administration will make good use of it.

michelin

December 9th, 2009 at 8:13 PM ^

Many useful comments below suggest a variety of pertinent factors pertinent to a team’s future expectations. I wondered how one would more systematically analyze these factors, maybe using some kind of human resource model (see link below). Also, if such models are used to better manage an organization, could they also help manage the team? Possibly the reason why the transition from LC to RR was so rocky in the first place is that it was not managed with sufficient oversight from the athletic department. We may have had some leeway in deciding how to best “time” the departure of LC and hiring of a new coach. Leaving at a time when Henne, Hart and Long graduated, I suspect, was not ideal for the program. Experiments have found that organization leaders make mistakes in managing their resources, often leading to cycles of “boom” and “bust.” The problem is that they try to fill short-term immediate needs (eg for a coach, for position players) without thinking enough about the broader organization and its future needs. For such reasons, companies like People Express Airlines went bankrupt. Similarly, athletic teams go through “bust” stages. As such, I would guess that management models have value not just in telling us what to expect with a younger vs an older team but, more importantly , how to strategically manage the team in a better way. Eg how to anticipate future position needs better, what kind of recruits to go after, when to go after them, when best to retire an old coach and hire a new one, etc. This area of management is outside of my expertise, but I would guess that “sports management” programs routinely deal with these types of models. I am certainly reinventing the wheel here, but maybe somebody can help develop this idea further. Below, I provide a format for thinking about some factors that might determine a team’s performance. The format is a kind of human resource model, as used in other organizations (see link) eg involving 1. The input: quality of potential recruits, competition for them, quality of signed recruits (eg recruiting rankings), what positions they play, how needed those positions are for the current and future teams, whether recruits will be needed to play early or later in their careers 2. The development of talent: How rapidly they can learn to acquire the necessary skills to run an offense and defense: In this sense, there is a progression in the “state” of recruit populations from the 1st to the 2nd, 2nd to the 3rd, 3rd to the fourth year* 3. The loss of talent: from loss of eligibility, early NFL entry, attrition expected when a new HC or Coordinator is hired, random attrition, etc 4. The Output: the expected performance of the according to recruits’ prior talent level, coaching quality, the match between recruits and coaching schemes, and the progression of learning from one year to the next. The overall team performance would be a sum of the contribution of each individual player, depending on how often he is used. Such use, as well sa the performance level would tend to be much higher in later years than early ones. *probably some kind of markov model http://www.lexjansen.com/sugi/sugi09/sd/001-09.pdf

HHW

December 10th, 2009 at 1:18 AM ^

our defense will be worse next year. Our offense will be slightly better. At best expect a 7-5, which does not equal a Top 25 appearance.

michelin

December 10th, 2009 at 9:54 AM ^

Your forecast is certainly supported by my own data and conclusions from the Sagarin ratings. But reasons for a little more optimism may exist. Other variables possibly affecting our success next year but not in these ratings are (1) the curious fact that our opponents--the B10 teams--based on last year alone, seem to be losing ground. On average, the five teams ranked above us (with PU a virtual tie) lost on average 5-6 points each (2) Next year, those same teams lose 4-7 players from the All-B10 first and second teams vs 2-3 lost by UM (because of the uncertainty, this average does not include MSU, which technically loses 1-2 but has another 2-9 players not on this list either thrown off the team or currently suspended and in limbo, pending their trial, with others possibly to be added to this list. At least 2 suspended players are key) Conclusion: While it appears that we are losing key players, which will weaken the team, other teams above us are losing even more—actually, a lot more (looking at their Jr-Sr rosters and not just the all-conf players may amplify these differences even more, since teams like OSU have a heavy predominance of Jr-Sr players on the starting rosters most of whom are not on the all-conf list) Also, the increased losses this year as well as the downward trend in ratings of other B10 teams since last year add two other possibly relevant sources of uncertainty affecting how well we do next year. In theory, their losses should decrease our SOS and, on average, not affect our Sagarin ratings for next year. However, since B10 teams constitute about 2/3 of our opponents next year, the uncertainty of their performance next year probably increases our chances for an unexpectedly good season.

michelin

December 10th, 2009 at 9:57 AM ^

IA loses 6-9 PSU loses 4-8 OSU loses 3-7 WI loses 3-4 MSU loses 1-2 (does not include +2 thrown off team incl best RB ?+7 currently suspended, incl 2 of top starters, one being only 4* player from his class) UM loses 2-3 All conference losses Landolt, Odrick, Clark, Lee PSU Graham, Carimi, Schofield Wisc Richardson, Angerer, Moeaki, Calloway, Eubanks, Johnson-Koulianos IA Swenson, MSU Worthington, Coleman, Small OSU Graham, Mesko UM Possible losses Bulaga, Klug, Spievey IA Royster, Smith, Wisniewski, Bowman PSU Moffit, Wisc Boren, Homan, Rolle, Chekwa OSU Jones MSU Warren, UM In this list, I did not include PU, which virtually ties us in the Sagarin. FYI, they lose 2-5 players. http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1026855