Mailbag: NCAA Reform #1, DL Moves, Coaching Evaluation, Bo Pelini's Secret Twin Comment Count

Brian

jerry-maguire[1]md19[1]

SHOW ME THE HENRY

How to resolve the NCAA being terrible thing.

Brian,

My friend and I were having a discussion about the best way to compensate college players, and he came up with the idea of paying players based on performance, sort of how incentive laden contracts work in the NFL, with the stipulation that the players will not receive the money until they graduate or go pro. I thought his idea was awful and unrealistic, because the “student athletes” would now become paid employees of the university and we essentially would have a semi-pro league on our hands. BUT, that got me thinking about a possible solution…

The issue we have here is the balance of compensation between stars and bench-warmers, large schools and small schools, men’s sports and women’s sports (which could also very well be a legal issue), revenue-generating and non-revenue-generating sports, etc. Instead of trying to figure out that mess, let’s take the decision of compensation out of the universities’ hands.

The solution: allow the student athletes to sign endorsement deals. If a corporation is willing to pay for a player’s likeness, he deserves that money. However, the stipulation here is that all money earned by a student athlete through endorsements would have to be held in an escrow account, and the release of the money would be contingent upon the completion of the player’s eligibility or his/her declaration to go pro, whichever comes first. Now if a player is caught accepting benefits beforehand, the NCAA would not look hypocritical when laying down punishments. Student athletes get compensated, legal issues are avoided, and you won't have a bunch of teenagers running around campus with millions of dollars to blow/get into mischief with.  What do you think? So crazy it just might work?

Go Blue,
Stephen Y

That's fine. It's a little paternalistic to tell the kids they can't have money until they get their degree, and that will be less effective at legitimizing the stuff under the table, because poor college kids will still want walking-around money. It's still fine.

I'm not sure why there's this widespread opposition to giving people money in exchange for services, but whatever middle ground you want to stake out that gives the kids their image rights and avoids Title IX issues is fine by me. Sign whatever you want, get whatever money you can acquire, and everything will be the same except compliance folk will have to find less mindlessly pedantic jobs. Worries about booster involvement are naïve—they're already involved.

The other major thing that the NCAA could do is get rid of their inane opposition to agents. If you're a legit agent with X number of current pro clients you can sign players regarded as prospects, and give them some advance on whatever they're going to make in the pros. (If you don't make the pros, that's just tough luck for the agent.) The NCAA doesn't even have to redirect any of the buckets of cash they're currently making to make the system

  • less impossible to manage
  • a more even playing field
  • fairer to the players
    Yeah: a more even playing field. Right now no one is going to MAC schools over major offers, but schools willing to do under the table stuff—or just not stop it—have an advantage over schools that don't. And it's tough to figure out what the more moral position is there these days.
    DL moves?

Hey Brian,

Sometimes in football, it seems that you just want to get the best guys on the field right?  Do you think we might see a DL consisting of Beyer, Henry, Qwash, Black?

I would think Black could flip back out to SDE pretty easily and could fold back in to 3 tech occasionally depending on the substitution patterns.  To me that gets your best pass rushers on the field more regularly and is the most likely combo to soak up OL in the run game too.

You mentioned that you expect Beyer to take Clark's job when Ryan comes back, but why not just make that switch now?  Wouldn't you rather get Gordon out there with Beyer than Clark at this point?

Thanks,
Daniel

(This was sent before Clark played well against UConn.)

If Michigan was going to put out its best line for one particular play against an I-formation that might well be it, but with opponents running out all kinds of spread packages and Michigan responding by lifting their nose tackle, Black's snaps are mostly going to be spent as an interior rush-type against shotgun formations. It's probably not worth moving him midseason to get a marginal improvement. While I like what I've seen from Henry so far, there was a play against UConn where he got obliterated. (Michigan was fortunate that UConn didn't block the second level well and held the gain down.) He's a work in progress.

Meanwhile on Cam Gordon: for whatever reason they're not playing him, and it's to the point that his lack of playing time speaks to a lack of performance. Beyer's been good, but mostly as a guy with his hand in the dirt. When Beyer's been put in coverage he's shown some flaws. Gordon's not getting more time is probably just his fate at this point.

I don't get it, either. They've been giving him seemingly genuine praise for years now and when it comes down to it they just don't put him on the field.

[After THE JUMP: evaluating Michigan's coaching staff, plus Bo Pelini axe murder.]

Subbing side effects.

Given Mattison's preference for subbing regularly in the front seven, could the coaches be doing this in part to mitigate the dropoff after guys graduate? I was surprised when a preview said Michigan lost 4 starters in the front 7 coming into this season (Campbell, Roh, Demens, Ryan) because their backups got a lot of run in '12, especially late in the season. Obviously Mattison mainly likes to sub to keep guys fresh, but could it have ancillary benefits for a college program by grooming the younger players for when they start, at which point they'll rotate with still more young guys? Could this an intentional part of player development?

Andrew S.

That is a salutary side effect, yes. If you know you're going to get at least a few snaps it's a lot more likely you are focused in practice than if you know the only way you're getting in the game is through injury typhoon. That helps development. It also helps with recruiting when you can point to players X and Y getting time as freshmen.

At some point—probably this point—there will be a time to cut down on that rotation and focus on the guys who are giving you quality time. I think we've seen that process start, as Glasgow hardly got a snap against UConn.

The obligatory coaching Q.

Brian,

Out of all the post-game analysis I have read or heard, your comment that there is nothing that the Michigan line does particularly well scares me the most. I was feeling that DB made a great hire, that this staff could recruit at a high level, teach and develop talent well and had great football minds in Borges and Mattison. I know it is just one game, but  I am now questioning the latter two points. I am worried about Hoke's ability to keep up with Urban Meyer. What is your overall opinion about this staff?

Peter

The defensive staff is unimpeachable. They immediately turned around GERG's clownfraudshow and have maintained a high level of performance without having anything resembling a player the NFL is highly interested in except Mike Martin. (I'm not counting Will Campbell, who is now an OL.) They developed JT Floyd from one of the worst corners to ever see the field at Michigan into a guy who got the maximum out of his ability.

Even now they're dealing with a talent level far below the one they'll have in the near future. Michigan's starters-plus-nickelback on defense are still mostly unheralded recruits. Only Quinton Washington, James Ross, Blake Countess, and Jarrod Wilson are consensus four-star types (Black and Taylor got one four star rating apiece from 3 and 4 services, respectively), and Washington was supposed to be an offensive lineman. They're still very young: they bring back all but five guys on their two-deep next year. And they pulled in Jabrill Peppers and are likely to grab Da'Shawn Hand and Malik McDowell. The trajectory here is looking excellent.

On the other side of the ball the jury is still out. Hecklinski seems to have done a fine job with Gallon and Dileo. Chesson is still a work in progress, and his other charges are Reynolds and Jackson. Running back coach is usually a place you stash a recruiter because playing running back is something you do or do not. Fred Jackson's probably retiring in the near future anyway. Ferrigno is the TEs guy, and he is going to get an incomplete for at least another two years. Funchess and AJ Williams both would have redshirted on a team that had any other scholarship tight ends, and Michigan would be gingerly working them both into the lineup behind Jerame Tuman types in any normal situation.

But this entire question is probably about two guys: Darrell Funk and Al Borges.

I still think Funk is in a similar situation as Ferrigno is: he's still trying to dig out of the bomb shelter. In retrospect the Braden-as-guard thing this spring was a major warning sign. Bryant can't stay healthy so your collection of non-freshman, scholarship options on the interior line is Jack Miller and Jack Miller. You know, the guy they were trying to replace. He's hamstrung by Borges's desire to run pretty much the opposite kind of system as they did last year and the lack of coherence in Michigan's running offense, but more importantly he's still in a situation in which he pretty much has to play three and only three guys on the interior OL. Bars is obviously not ready, Bryant is in and out of the lineup, and past that it's Joey Burzynski and true freshmen. When that's your fate sometimes you get stuck with guys who can't play.

In that vein: Funk should be given major points for acquiring and developing Glasgow, who I think is Michigan's best interior OL right now and will be a three-year starter. Where's Michigan without that? Starting Kyle Bosch, probably.

Next year is the real test for Funk. He'll get both guards back, but he will be replacing both tackles with guys he recruited and possibly the center. If there's not significant progress then, caterwauling should begin in earnest.

As for Borges, I find him maddening a lot but when I go check things out I often find that the stuff he called was open but his players biffed it. Still, you never know if you're going to get something like 40 points on Notre Dame or an inexplicable fart. I watch opponents tee off on Michigan's run game without getting punished for it. One of the fun things about breaking down Rodriguez games was waiting for the knockout punch when RR figured out what you were doing to his run game and tweaked something that left you holding your guts and choking on his dust. I got how that system worked.

Borges… I don't know, man. Half the time I think he's great, half the time I think he's a goober. He, too, is stuck with one and only one quarterback.

Whoah.

I can't believe I never noticed this before, but I think Bo Pelini has a long lost twin.  

Sincerely,
Chris Banish '96

HungrynowPelini

Whoah. (Also you know that Pelini has killed someone with an axe and put them in a woodchipper.)

Comments

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 1:41 PM ^

Ability trumps positional experience, even there.

Last year, we moved a guard/tackle backup who had hardly played center and had little talent (Mealer) to the starting spot rather than playing the lone true center (Miller) recruited for the position.  Plus Khoury, who was a center, did not return (by either his choice or the coaches).  You'd think if having a pure center was that important they'd have pushed him to return. 

This year, Glasgow almost beat out Miller despite being a guard and a walk-on.

Reader71

September 24th, 2013 at 6:35 PM ^

I played all 5 line positions as a young man and center was far and away the hardest. We make a lot of noise on here about how a center must be smart and also quick and agile to scoop the nose on a stretch play. This is all true. But it is secondary to the truly difficult thing a center must do on every play: snap the ball and block. Let me tell you, it is damn near impossible. The difficulty is mitigated somewhat by having an uncovered guard on most plays to help, but 1. the snap itself must be perfect or its a turnover. 2. the nose is right over you, unlike at other positions which line up at your heels and give themselves a bit of a neutral zone. 3. you must simultaneously snap and step, with the guy right on nose right on you, 4. your first punch will always be one handed, which effectively cuts your power to drive block in hakf. So while I think Miller has been bad, I don't know if switching him out midseason is a great idea. I also don't assume that Glasgow will be able to do it. And even if he does, I'd wager that his level of play will drop, so we better hope Bryant is a big upgrade, or else we may have actually gotten weaker over two positions. Robbing Peter to pay Paul may not be the best option.

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2013 at 6:43 PM ^

I honestly don't know how anyone plays center as well as they do.

But to add to your point, there is a reason people line up a nose over the center almost every play. Because it is damn hard to snap the ball under that kind of pressure and then not only make the block, but not get blown up. Defenses do this because they know it's really damn hard to play center.

stephenrjking

September 24th, 2013 at 12:51 PM ^

It's one thing to be starting one young player. It's another to have young players be all of the interior line, including center.

Glasgow is the guard I have the most faith in. He has blown the fewest plays and does not get physically overmatched. I think there is a good argument to be made that he has simply performed above expectations.

The issue, to me, is that a previous coach completely biffed on OL recruiting late in his tenure. We don't have a junior or senior player who may be "just a guy" but has three years of lifting and practice to plug him in and not make mistakes. Michigan has known for two years that it is counting on Kyle Kalis to be a starter at right guard and that there is no other option; he's ok, but there is nothing in front of him.

I am agnostic about the OL coaching right now, because I think the guys should be better. But it is quite possible that they will be, and as we know the recruiting on the line is going to fix at least the talent issue in the coming years.

I think things should be better. Young guys should be able to block MAC level defenders. That they aren't is troubling. Still, it's hard to tell where the issue is coming from--it is evident that Miller is struggling to get up to speed, but how do we know that's coaching? Michigan does not have other players ready to take his place and could not be expected to have such players ready. It was Miller or bust. 

Maize and Blue…

September 24th, 2013 at 1:26 PM ^

pretty darn good for Oregon and would be starting here, but that is one of the downfalls of coaching changes.  O line is probable the hardest place to recruit and get it right. One top of losing Fisher, Pace medicalled, Posada quit, and QWash was moved to D.  Yes the O line was left thin by the previous coach though some of it was no fault of his own.

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 1:46 PM ^

It is easy to blame RR for OL but he was very successful with OL recruiting while he was here.  He was justified in focusing on other priorities in '09 and '10 classes when he felt confident he could fill the void in the never-completed '11 class.

It was a mistake to take so few OL in '09 and '10 but a semi-defensible one.

On paper, a spread OL with Lewan-Washington-Miller-Schofield-Fisher with Bryant plus whoever else from the '11 and '12 classes providing depth would look pretty good.

jmblue

September 24th, 2013 at 3:39 PM ^

You should never go two consecutive years with few OL recruits.  There really is no justification for that.  OL is one of the trickiest positions to evaluate in recruiting, so it's very risky to bring in only 1-2 guys in a class and hope they pan out.  You really should bring in 3-4 every year.

 

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2013 at 3:42 PM ^

Which is why I think Hoke should bring in at least one more this year and should bring in more than people are reporting he will next year. My opinion is that you bring in at least 6 OL over a two year period no matter what.

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 4:38 PM ^

Everyone on MGoBlog seems to have penciled in Braden-Bosch-Kugler-Kalis-Magnuson as an epicly awesome OL but Kalis is the only one who has played yet.  There is still a great deal of uncertainty, especially at tackle.

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2013 at 12:00 PM ^

And not HR-rep diversity. But really, if executed properly, a full-scale playbook by Borges is impossible to defend, because it can attack you no matter what you try to do. The small nuances you can do with blocking, with receivers, with route concepts, with your QB, in general, give it more weapons. Maybe those weapons aren't as powerful, and maybe it's picking up chunks instead of scoring TDs, but it is more weapons and more things for defenses to prepare for, if it's executed and used to its potential.

Spread, in general, must be simpler because it depends so much more on reads that need to be made live. Now, that makes it in general more difficult to defend, because it's not necessarily "here's the play, go stop it". But by its nature it is less complex. If you can stop the play, if the defense has the personnel to stop the play, regardless of the read, then it's dead, and to a high degree that's regardless of execution. The same isn't necessarily true with what Borges wants to do.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, because I honestly don't believe one is better than the other. My personal preference has always been closer to what Borges does, though I definately see the advantages of a spread and like many of the concepts and its simplicity. But you have to run what you believe in more. It's really just the way it is.

FWIW, and people forget this about Rich Rod, but he desperately wanted to install I-form within his offense. That's because of the things that it offered that were counter to what his spread offered. But he never really had the personnel to run it, or the time to install it properly. Towards the end he also desperately started realizing the value of the TE position to the future of his offense. In the end they'll all start to come back to the other, because there are different advantages and benefits of both - again, because neither is necessarily better, just different in philosophy. At least that's my general point of view on the whole thing.

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 12:08 PM ^

You're absolutely right that Rodriguez wanted to have it, and it wasn't just about holdovers.  He recruited bigger OL like Bryant and bigger backs like Hopkins.

I'm not sure I buy the "full-scale playbook is impossible to defend" because I haven't seen an impossible to defend pro-style/west-coast offense in a long time.  Every impossible-to-defend O I can recall in the last 10 years either had a special talent or a schematic advantage (i.e., was a spread-oriented attack with reads of some sort).

Simplicity seems advantageous, particularly so at the college level. 

Going back to Rodriguez's I-form:  Absolutely, you want wrinkles and counters, but it seems they have to build on your core competancy.  Michigan hasn't been able to establish a core competancy under Borges other than "run QB - run for your life".

stephenrjking

September 24th, 2013 at 12:43 PM ^

In that sense no offense is impossible to defend. I think SC's point is that Borges uses a playbook and a philosophy that has an answer for every defensive question. Whether those answers are easy to execute is another matter, but it is there.

I love spread offense, but let's not pretend that they haven't struggled from time to time. When Oregon played Auburn and then LSU, their offensive line was blown apart by superior DL athletes, and as a result they simply could not function as they would normally expect to. Oregon played the title game right down to the wire, but much of its offense came through the good-but-not-great arm of Darron Thomas, and he benefited from a very inconsistent Auburn defensive backfield. LSU punched Oregon in the mouth and Oregon had no answer.

All impossible-to-defend offenses have special talent, and most are at least schematically thorough. There has not been a national champion in recent memory that has won with an offense that gave it a schematic advantage but did not exploit it with unique talent. 

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 1:20 PM ^

Certainly not a Michigan fan alive in '08.

Oregon has come close to winning a title without any special talent.  Their next great NFL player will be their first since the spread was installed.  It's been entirely about scheme.  Texas Tech was another school that came close with Leach. 

Yes, any team can be torn apart by huge a talent disadvantage.  But Auburn only managed to slow Oregon down, not shut them down entirely.  If the 'struggle' results in losing to the best D in the country by a FG, that's not so terrible.

chitownblue2

September 24th, 2013 at 2:05 PM ^

I think it's perilous to judge how good a college player based on how good they are as a pro. Does Reggie Bush's mediocre NFL career make him a worse college player?

Regardless, they've turned on a pro-bowl center, two NFL tailbacks, and a WR since Chip Kelly became their head-coach. I feel comfortable saying that Barner and Thomas will be in the NFL too.

That's pretty respectable in...4 years?

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 4:40 PM ^

Bush has had a very good NFL career IMO.

You're right to an extent, but there's a long list of system players whose skills didn't translate at the next level.  I'd nominate a lot of UM running backs into this category actually.

Fair point that Chip Kelly wasn't there that long.

stephenrjking

September 24th, 2013 at 2:06 PM ^

I'm sorry, but your last two paragraphs are just not accurate. 

Oregon's scheme was and is excellent, but they had in guys like LaMichael James truly remarkable talents that were well-suited to what they ran. And yet they were substantially disrupted by Auburn's defense.

...Which is the even larger problem. Auburn wasn't even close to the best D in the country. They gave up 24.1 ppg, good for only 53rd in the country. They gave up almost 260 passing yards and over 100 rushing yards per game. This was in the not-so-offensively-brilliant SEC. They were, nonetheless, able to hold high-flying Oregon to 19 points, a cool four touchdowns below their season average. 

UMaD

September 24th, 2013 at 4:43 PM ^

A 3rd string NFL RB is not a remarkable talent IMO.  Comapre to say, JaQuizz Rogers just up the road from Eugene.  The difference in accolades in college is enormous, but Quizz was the better player.

I stand corrected on Auburn.

19 point is nothing to sneeze at.  You can't hold Oregon's staggering production AGAINST them, in an argument about how bad they are.  They were slowed down, not stopped.  Other teams have won championships with 19 points - so if you want to talk talent discrepancy maybe Oregon's D is a better place to look.

dahblue

September 24th, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^

I too worry about the Oline next season.  We're going to lose the strength of our line and we're talking about how to switch up the middle (the weak part) now.  That doesn't bode well given the time it takes linemen to develop.

On a different note, what's with anyone (Peter, whomever ye are) wanting to "keep up" with Urban?  The guy is going to win games but he's a total piece of shit.  4th & 8 on the FAMU 10 and going for it?  Up 20.  In the 1st.  C'mon.  He went for it on four 4th downs (the last when I think OSU was already up 55-0).  He's the opposite of what we should want in A2.  Urban will field good teams; and so will we. 

M-Wolverine

September 24th, 2013 at 2:15 PM ^

Sure under Cooper they seemed to brain fart against us, but they won a lot and had tons of talent. We were just better then. Accept that OSU is going to be good, and man up to the challenge. The Urban Meyer whining from some people is kind of pathetic.

909Dewey

September 24th, 2013 at 11:37 AM ^

Brian

If Al Borges had started a blog in 2004 instead of taking the Auburn job, would he now be as good an offensive coordinator as you?

jdon

September 24th, 2013 at 11:56 AM ^

I'm not one to pile on but, oh wait yes I am!

as 'appreciative' as I am to have this site to exchange viewpoints and discuss michigan football the second guessing and armchair quarterbacking around here is ridiculous.  

I wondered aloud on a thread  six or seven months just what Brian would have to say when there was nothing complain about any more.   Now it seems that he can just speculate on any number of random  hypotheticals and run the offense from the comfort of his couch on a Tuesday...

Well played.

well played.

love,

jdon

 

saveferris

September 24th, 2013 at 12:52 PM ^

I love the penchant for some posters on here who like to criticize the "second-guessing" and "armchair quarterbacking" that goes on here without offering any constructive alternative opinion of their own.

The difference between this site and others dedicated to Michigan sports is that the second-guessing is supported somewhat quantitatively with data (i.e. UFR, etc.) as opposed to others where opinions boil down to "Rich Rod lost a lot and Hoke hasn't, so Hoke must be better, raarrrr!!!!". 

I really don't understand posters whose sole purpose for posting seems to be to tell Brian or the other staff writers that they're full of shit.  There are plenty of other blogs that discuss Michigan sports, why the hell are you here if the opinions are so untenable?

TwoFiveAD

September 24th, 2013 at 1:09 PM ^

"Rich Rod lost a lot and Hoke hasn't, so Hoke must be better, raarrrr!!!!". 

I know this is going to be hard to grasp, but sometimes, you don't need an egraph to draw the right conclusion.  Take what you wrote above.   You are right and it is as simple as one coach winning and the other losing.

I enjoy reading this site, but I take it for what it is, an Engineer trying to break down football games.   I will tell you right now, there are about 4-5 people who comment on this site that know what they're talking about.   I come for the comment section and for the occasional laugh Brian provides such as the Rich Rod Knock Out punches.   How can you not laugh at that?

I don't know why anyone else hasn't commented on Brian stating the reason he liked RR's offense was becuase he could understand it.

No offense, but that's not a good thing.

wolverine1987

September 24th, 2013 at 1:42 PM ^

thanks for mis-portraying it. Just maybe, it might be the same reasons that lots of NFL coaches who once disained the spread are now adapting elements of it en masse?

Look, Brian is not a coach, so everything is taken in context of that--but that does not, in any way mean, that he and others who comment on coaching are wrong, or that their opinions about offensive philisophy are wrong.

TwoFiveAD

September 24th, 2013 at 2:20 PM ^

I'd be surprised if what Harbaugh is doing this year last another 2 seasons.   Same for Washington and Philly.  

Spread concepts have been in the NFL for at least a decade, maybe longer.   Read Option is the only new phenomenon and its days are limited going forward.

Time will tell, but if you can't step up in the pocket and deliver an accurate throw, you aren't going to make it.   The element of surprise with Kap and RG3 is over.   Film Study in the NFL is taken too seriously and it's combined with the biggest physical freaks on earth.   A play here or there, yes, but the QB is too big of an investment for the read option spread to be a staple of an offense in the NFL. 

What Tom Brady and Peyton Manning run, will never go away and it's not like it was just recently invented.  It's going on 14+ years.  Call it what you want. 

chitownblue2

September 24th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

It's worth noting that the two major spread teams of last year (49ers and Redskins) are a combined 1-5 and unable to score while games are being contested right now. If you add the Eagles, the 3 spread teams are 2-7. In aggregate, they are scoring 2 points below the NFL average (and that's with the Redskins tendency to pad their scoring and yardage numbers after they've fallen behind by 30 points).

WolverBean

September 24th, 2013 at 1:51 PM ^

So let me get this straight: you don't think a Michigan-educated engineer who has spent the last 8 years dedicating himself to watching film, going to coaching clinics, and otherwise immersing himself in the game of football can understand how an offense is designed -- and yet, a bunch of guys who were recruited more for their physical talents than for their academic aptitude can understand it?

I promise you: if football players can understand an offense, so can Brian. And if you don't think a Michigan engineer who has dedicated himself to learning something can, in fact, learn it... I don't think I'm the only one on this blog who's going to have a strong difference of opinion with you.

TwoFiveAD

September 24th, 2013 at 3:02 PM ^

You nailed it.

And by your response, I'm willing to wager any amount of fake money that you never played a down of football past high school (if you played high school) coached at any level past middle school or played any college sport in general.

At the next level, they are no longer "Dumb Jocks" when it comes to understanding the game.  They become experts.

Unless your Dez Bryant of course, then you just line up next to your sideline and have the coaches tell you what route to run.

Ask yourself this:  Who has Brian Studied under to know how to analyze football?  At Michigan he studied under engineering professors. In football, who has taught him?  Going to clinics and reading some books aren't even half the battle in sports.

And like I have stated in other threads, I like this blog.  I like the picture pages he does.  His UFR's can be informative.  He brings attention to things a lot of us don't notice watching on TV.  His best quality is, he allows what is taking place right now with these comments to go on.   I doubt he cares much what any of us say.

If he is reading these, hopefully in his next UFR he adds a Pocket Presence score for the QB's.   It's equally as important as scrambling, as is knowing when to throw the ball away to avoid a sack.

Hannibal.

September 24th, 2013 at 3:15 PM ^

Here is my opinion --

A lot of the stuff that Brian bitches about is game theory/probability stuff that takes absolutely no playing experience to understand.  Do I think that it's possible for an engineer with no formal training in football to be more knowledgeable about a coach whose punting heuristics date back to the 1960s?  In some areas, absolutely.  Coaches are experts in teaching and motivating, not necessarily in math, probability, or concepts like "expected value".  Nor do they get exposure to this way of thinking.  It usually takes a "gambler" coach to come along and expose the conventional wisdom for being faulty.  This has happened somewhat with fourth down decisions.  Brady Hoke makes fourth down decisions that people thought Hal Mumme was crazy for making 15 years ago.  Coaches go for fourth downs a lot more than they used to.  Lots of fourth down attempts are made in situations where 20 years ago, the punt team would have come on, the crowd would have booed, and the color commentator would have made a condescending comment about how punting is the right decision because the coach knows best.  It turns out, the coaches didn't know best in a lot of cases -- they were using logic that dated back to the days when 16-10 was a typical football score. 

Also, there are a lot of things that you don't need to be educated in to judge whether or not somebody has done his job well.  I wouldn't trust Brian or anyone else here to go to Schembecler Hall and teach anyone on the team how to block, but that doesn't mean that he can't evaluate.  I also wouldn't trust many, if any, people in this forum to build a bridge for me.  But if the bridge collapses, I think that we are all qualified to say that the bridgebuilder fucked up.

Reader71

September 24th, 2013 at 6:46 PM ^

Arguments about game theory are missing one key variable though: failure to convert an important fourth down and a resulting loss will be blamed entirely on the coach, whose job is on the line. So, EV might be on the coach's side, but the decision might cost him his job. This is what the discussion must be about, I think, not whether the coach knows the probability of success or can properly weigh that against other factors. The math game is for us to fuck about with. It might cost the coach dearly. Not really pertinent to the Brian/football discussion, but it always bugs me. Unless we change the thinking of football fans, owners, players, et al, expect coaches to punt when they ought not to. The rest of it is just noise.

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2013 at 2:04 PM ^

But I can promise you that, while the football players may have a more narrow knowledge of football, they certainly have much more depth than Brian, or even myself. There are things you learn from coaching or playing that don't get taught at clinics or on film, things that you really don't realize until you're sitting in a film room every day with great coaches (college coaches are all great about knowledge of the game, it's a relative thing that we all argue about), you will pick up on much more nuanced and minor things than others will.

Do you need to "play the game to know the game", as was at one time thrown on Brian? I don't necessarily think so. But it doesn't hurt, and there is a different depth of knowledge that is gained from actually being around it.

umumum

September 24th, 2013 at 2:43 PM ^

because Brian was generally supportive of RichRod and the spread offense, those who HATE HATE  RichRod now glomb to the meme that Brian's opinion wasn't based on anything more than the simplicity of the spread offense.  Borge's offense is apparently just too hard  for him to understand.  Yet somehow many of our expert posters here are football savvy enough to get it.  Yea that's sounds about right.

jdon

September 24th, 2013 at 3:54 PM ^

I can only speak for me but I have no issue with Brian breaking down film or discussing the offense, I even enjoy it on occasion, what I do think is ridiculous is the infatuation with the hypothetical;  for me, I find it extremely annoying the idea that anyone, Brian, the pope, whomever, would assess the offense by favoring any other offense or by comparing each play and its results to plays not in the fucking playbook.

that is all,

love,

jdon

 

ps.  bubble screens...

M-Wolverine

September 24th, 2013 at 2:24 PM ^

But if it were, just because he spent a lot of hours watching films of operations doesn't mean I'd want him to do surgery on me either. Or repair my car. Or a whole lot of other things that aren't to the level of brain surgery.  Doesn't mean he's not a highly educated layman. But it also doesn't mean we shouldn't take everything with a grain of salt either.

WolverBean

September 24th, 2013 at 6:55 PM ^

I think hannibal's comment is apropos here too. It's not, say, open heart surgery. But a layman who's spent some time with Grey's Anatomy (the book, not the soap opera) can still recognize that a surgeon who intends to operate on the heart, but has nicked the bowel in the process, has probably screwed up. As a layman, I absolutely cannot perform open heart surgery, but if I'm watching someone else do it and they start removing your liver instead, I'm going to know they screwed up. As a layman who's devoted a lot of time to watching surgeries, Brian can't perform open heart surgery either, but perhaps he can tell you you've got the wrong settings dialed up on the heart-lung machine and that your dosage of anti-coagulant is wrong (or whatever). In other words, someone who's spent a lot of time observing may be able to understand a lot of sophisticated details, especially at a high level, even if they could not themselves actually carry out the observed operations on said level. Could Brian call plays in real time? Probably not. Could he teach a quarterback how to go through a progression? I sincerely doubt it. Can he look back after the fact, watch the video a bunch of times, and come up with useful observations about whether the sequence of plays called actually made sense, or whether the quarterback appears to have gone through his progression? I'd argue the answer there is yes.

My point is, how big a grain of salt you need depends on what exactly is being claimed. High level observations of patterns like "Our linebackers struggle in coverage generally" is pretty low sodium. Detailed technical statements like "Courtney Avery should have started 15 yards deep on the left hash and read inside out on this playcall" would be much saltier. What's frustrating about these arguments (and I'm not accusing you of this) is they seem so binary: Brian is smarter than Borges! No, Borges is a genius, and Brian is too stupid to understand! Brian is always right! No, Brian is full of it, and we shouldn't trust his opinion because he's not a coach! No, one should not uncritically accept absolutely everything posted on MGoBlog as the Gospel truth -- but isn't that true of absolutely everything you read, from any source, in any context?

Hannibal.

September 24th, 2013 at 2:11 PM ^

I don't know where you are getting the idea that the only reason that he liked that offense was because he understood it.  I don't remember Brian saying this in the manner that you are making it sound.  This implies that the reason that he didn't  like Debord's offense is because he didn't understand it. 

I think that the 489 yards per game of offense that we gained in 2010 against a pretty good defensive schedule with our offense frequently getting the ball only 9 or 10 times in a game (because of our shitty defense) is probably the chief factor in Brian's love of RR's offense.  Along with watching us score 3 points against OSU with 91 yards of offense in 2007, and watching variations of RR's offense produce ungodly point and yardage totals across the country. 

M-Wolverine

September 24th, 2013 at 2:36 PM ^

Of a 2007 team that played a tougher schedule (three top ten teams vs. two, not even counting an Oregon team that was in line to play for the national championship before they Heisman leading candidate QB got hurt) with injuries to the programs all time passer and rusher most of the season (including your 3 point game vs. a team that DID play for the national championship) as well as line troubles and a star receiver who spent a good bit of time in the dog house to a team that put up points and yards against the likes of U-Mass, Bowling Green, Indiana, and Illinois, yet still had cherry picking days of 17, 7, and 14 against worse competition.

Hannibal.

September 24th, 2013 at 3:55 PM ^

The 2007 Michigan team did not play a tougher defensive schedule than they played in 2010.  Oregon wasn't known for their defense that year and we scored all of 7 points aginst them.  Henne was healthy for the first half of that game and Hart was healthy for the whole game.  Appalachian State was a purely offensive team.  ND and Illinois were mediocre (on defense).  Northwestern was abysmal and we need four 4th quarter turnovers to scrape out 28 points against them.  Penn State was good and so was Wisconsin.  MSU was bad -- much worse on defense than in 2010.  Minnesota was abysmal.  If you are honestly going to try and argue that the 100 ypg game advantage that the 2010 team had over 2007 (despite having almost no seniors on the entire team, no good running backs, and no star receivers) is due to strength of schedule then you are a blithering idiot.  And you can't use the injury excuse either, since Denard missed big parts of the OSU, Iowa, and Illinois games, and lots of plays here and there.  Our best offensive lineman (Molk) missed almost the entire Iowa game.  Without our starting QB for a half and our starting center for almost the whole game, we amassed 500 yards and 28 points. 

91 yards against Ohio State 3 points.  RichRod's offense, without David Molk, Brandon Minor, or Carlos Brown, scored 10 points against OSU two years later.  So much for the injury excuse.  They scored 7 points with Nick Sheridan as the QB in 2008.  RichRod's team scored at least one offensive touchdown in every game.  We failed to score a TD 3 times in 2012.  We ended up with 9 points against Nebraska's terrible defense (only 6 before Denard was injured, including the FG that they kicked right after he got hurt). If you are going to talk rock bottom performances, then compare apples to apples.

I'll take an offense that "struggles" against an elite defense over an offense that struggles against terrible or mediocre defenses anyday.