OT: Notre Dame alum blasts school for sexual assualt/rape by football players
Notre Dame alum wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post about why she will not be rooting for Notre Dame to win the National Championship: two current players on the team are alleged to have committed sexual assualt and rape, and the school has promoted an environment to attack the victims in order to protect the football team.
December 7th, 2012 at 7:40 PM ^
DIdn't the same thing happen at MSU recently?
December 7th, 2012 at 9:17 PM ^
Something similiar, yes
December 7th, 2012 at 9:53 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 10:09 PM ^
I won't ask.
December 7th, 2012 at 10:24 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 10:26 PM ^
Here's an article from this past year about the situation (which allegedly went down in August 2010): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katherine-redmond/madness-surrounding-mic…
Neither of the guys accused had charges pressed or were disciplined. If you want names, it really shouldn't be that hard to Google it
December 7th, 2012 at 7:42 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 7:45 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 8:09 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 8:36 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 7:53 PM ^
I can't comment on the facts of the case, but one thing struck me: that the girl was hysterically crying to the point of not being able to breathe. This doesn't happen when someone grabs your breast (as was suggested by a poster here). Upset, yes. Hyperventilating and hysterical crying, no. If she was crying to the point of hyperventilation, something happened. Something more than just being groped.
December 8th, 2012 at 8:37 AM ^
December 8th, 2012 at 9:38 AM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 8:40 PM ^
In my opinion the fact that the article states that the ND player had a history that should have prevented him from being recruited makes this even worse.
Those text messages the ND players sent were disgraceful. Also Kelly joking about this to the media further after the girl had committed suicide is both cruel and dumb.
December 7th, 2012 at 8:47 PM ^
Well, this thread is chock full of WIN. Super uncomfortable alleging rape on essentially an entire football team, rival or no, but anyway, just thought I'd hop in before the lock.
December 7th, 2012 at 8:48 PM ^
I do not know enough about this case to know what happened (but who does, besides those involved?). However, I've worked with domestic violence victims before (luckily not directly on serious sex assault/rape cases), and I know that women in these situations have a lot of reasons to clam up and not stand up for themselves. Rape victims face the worst repurcussions for standing up for themselves...they essentially will be called whores in court and a defense attorney will try to drag out every sexual encounter they ever have had. Plus, they will have to relive the rape several times. First, tell a patrol officer, then a sex assault detective, then a victim advocate, then the prosecutor, then a judge and possibly a jury of 12 people. That's at least 5 times that a rape victim has to tell her story to complete strangers. Shit, I'm in my 30s and would feel uncomfortable telling my parents about my most recent sexual encounter with my wife (and I can talk to them about anything else)...I cannot imagine how horrible it would be to tell so many strangers about getting raped.
Not only would Ms. Seeberg have had to worry about the above, but she would have to worry about taking on the powerful institution of Notre Dame. She would have to worry about all of the above coming out in the national news...so she's not just telling her story to 5 strangers, but the whole damn country.
Yes, some women lie about being raped. There are plenty of vindictive and crazy people out there. But, at the same time, a lot of women are raped who never report it. Maybe Ms. Seeberg couldn't live with the prospect of taking on Notre Dame. Or maybe she felt bad about falsely accusing someone of rape.
The worst thing is that no one cared enough to truly investigate what happened and that no one cared enough to find out why this young woman was distraught enough to take her own life. And then Brian Kelly thinks it's a big joke.
December 7th, 2012 at 10:29 PM ^
Thanks for writing this. There is a stigma attached to being a victim of a sexual assault that is hard to fathom. First, you are attacked and violated, then you have to prove to everyone why it wasn't somehow your fault.
December 7th, 2012 at 8:50 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 9:02 PM ^
A lot. Institutional power protects institutions in a very insular way. And we don't punish the powerful.
Which is why PSU should have gotten the death penalty.
December 7th, 2012 at 9:06 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 9:20 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 9:31 PM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 9:45 PM ^
All the sordid details you really don't want to know about the case being discussed. Plus a history of harassment and cover ups going back to the 70s.
http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/reported-sexual-assault-notre-…
December 7th, 2012 at 9:47 PM ^
December 8th, 2012 at 8:29 AM ^
December 7th, 2012 at 11:38 PM ^
Women.
December 8th, 2012 at 12:22 AM ^
the glory
December 8th, 2012 at 1:38 AM ^
Thith really ithn't the thort of thing anyone thould be making joketh about
December 8th, 2012 at 5:42 AM ^
December 8th, 2012 at 7:12 AM ^
December 8th, 2012 at 10:38 AM ^
Ugh I had a long post written up and the page froze. Basically what I said was that threads like this only exist to add fuel to the fire, and posting this especially on a rivals message board only serves to send knee jerk reactions over the top.
The facts are that none of us know the facts. None of us is equipped to comment on this case. None of us know how fragile this young girl was nor how predatory this particular player was. I can't believe that the campus police would cover something like this up for the football team when if anyone you know has gone to ND, you'd know that the police would love to sink their teeth into a player. It is a well known fact that the campus police have it out for athletes, particularly football.
Saying that I would like to believe that the particular player is innocent. That this girl was crazy off her rocker and so totally unstable that any sort of rejection might have sent her over the edge. I would like to think that ANY university would do more. I would like to say all these things but I can't. Because I don't have the facts.
According to this website: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/16/lizzy-seeberg-suicide-new_n_797677.html
It is stated that:
The St. Joseph County Prosecutor's Office has decided not to press charges against any students in Lizzy Seeberg's case. Michael Dvorak, writing on the Office's behalf, said that there were conflicts in the witness testimonials, and that subpoenaed phone records conflicted with Seeberg's complaint.So I can't make a judgement either way, and if you guys can than you are much better people than I am.
December 8th, 2012 at 11:28 AM ^
I hope you were going for irony in your post, but somehow I doubt that you were. You chastise posters for making claims without knowing the facts, then turn around and proclaim as fact your unsubstantiated opinion:
"It is a well known fact that the campus police have it out for athletes, particularly football."
December 8th, 2012 at 12:44 PM ^
It is my opinion, however, being that I know a lot of current and former ND students I can say with confidence that its true.
December 8th, 2012 at 1:18 PM ^
As long as we're quoting:
"Ms. Seeberg's statements -- as a consequence of her untimely death on September 10, 2010 -- would be found inadmissible in a court of law because of evidentiary rules involving hearsay."
This is the prosecutor's statement regarding one of the reasons why they didn't press charges.
No, I don't know the facts. But I do know that a journalist, after having done months of research about two incidents at her alma mater, wrote a pretty scathing op ed piece in a respected newspaper. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she isn't irresponsible, just like I'm going to give Lizzy Seeberg the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't a crazy liar.
December 8th, 2012 at 2:24 PM ^
If this had happened at Michigan I'm pretty sure you'd rush to judgement. And yes, I am judging you.
December 9th, 2012 at 9:50 AM ^
Glass house much? There is nothing that I could base my opinion on that would allow me to do such a thing if the names were changed. I, unlike a portion of you guys, like to read about something before I skim a link and start the BURN THEM ALL chants.
December 9th, 2012 at 12:06 PM ^
How was my post starting a "BURN THEM ALL" chant? You completely miss my point.
You're obviously so vested in ND Athletics that you'll eat up the company spin and ignore some troubling aspects of this case. Two things that stood out to me: 1) Four young college students are hanging out and Lizzy was the only one consuming alcohol. 2) An attractive young coed is sexually aggressive and giving a testosterone-filled young man a lap dance and he just decides he doesn't want any of it.
I've read that these are statements the player in question made to the police. I don't know about you, but they don't pass the smell test to me.
December 8th, 2012 at 3:00 PM ^
Your post is filled with inflammatory fantasy. Your only source above was written before any of the facts came out. Especially this fantasy: "That this girl was crazy off her rocker and so totally unstable that any sort of rejection might have sent her over the edge." Is that something you learned from your friends on campus?
December 9th, 2012 at 9:47 AM ^
You missed my point. As an ND fan I would hope that none of this would have happened in the first place. That blame could be easily placed on some crazy girl who was rejected by some boy she really liked. I would like to believe that this player wouldn't do any of this kind of stuff.
And like I said, I can't say any of those things because I don't know the facts. As much as you'd love to rip this particular player, you can't either. You don't know the facts. So here we all are in No Man's Land, with no concrete evidence either way except he said/she said and subpoened phone records.
December 9th, 2012 at 12:51 PM ^
...represents the player. And the ND alum lawyer has made all those statements that you would fear and hope the player and/or the university would not make. The include suggesting she was suicidal, had a bad reputation, and was the one who pursued the player. Of course all of these statements have been shown to be false. Since the player hired the attorney the player is responsible for those statements. The accused never speak ...they always hire a laywer.
Go back a read the facts with your eyes wide open. Go back a read the history of gang rapes. Of all the accusations, the only one that went to trial is where the victim went to South Bend police and not Campus police. Per your friends beliefs, perhaps campus police are quick to arrest a player for everything except sexual assault. By the way, isn't it in the university's by laws that women can be expelled from Notre Dame if they have sex before marraige. But it's ok for the football team.