OT: Refs in NBA finals game 3
Anyone else get the sense the refs tried to swing the series to Dallas tonight? Miami played a very aggressive and athletic style. Points in paint went to Miami 40-22, but fouls went 27-14 against Miami. Edit (new stat): Of the final 11 foul calls against the Heat, 10 were not in the act of shooting. It seemed every time the Heat pushed the lead out to 10 or so they'd get called for a couple loose ball or ticky tack fouls.
Did you not see the Wade flop? That was the worst call in NBA history, your theory is off.
Nowitzki did the same thing later in the game. I don't necessarily like it, but it is part of the game.
While I am from Florida, and have been a Heat fan since I was a child, I generally see officiating pretty fairly. I get upset if either team gets poor calls as I'd rather see a game played and called fairly, whether my team wins or loses.
That being said, I do agree with the OP for tonight. Officiating seemed to be on the Heat's side during the Chicago series, but tonight the refs seemed glued to the whistle when the Heat were up by more than 7 or 8 points. Happy to escape with an important win though.
I know its part of the game but when your not even touched and do that crap its garbage.
So are you OK with Nowitzki doing it?
Im not ok with anyone doing it Im a Pistons fan these teams mean nothing to me. That being said i have no idea about the Nowitski flop, The one I think your talking about Nowitzki didnt even get th call and Mahimini shot the free throws.
I'm not referring to that play. Nowitzki was blocked out on a rebound and fell back/flopped just like Wade did without being touched and got the call.
My bad I missed that one but what about the Chalmers half court shot, I thought that was back court.
I think the refs got that call incorrect as well. Not sure of the actual rule, but the ESPN/ABC crew was saying that it shouldn't have counted after the game. I guess the refs were making up for the unbalanced foul calling. /sarcasm
/not really
EDIT: Not to mention that ridiculous non-call on Kidd's traveling when he jumped into Wade (or Lebron, can't remember) and never even tried to shoot the ball. He took like 6 steps.
That travelling call (shuffling feet once a guy's in the air) might get called once out of 100 times.
I don't know what play you're referring to, but watching the game and looking at the stats.... well, let's just say I'm looking forward to Tim Donaghy's column covering this game for Deadspin quite a bit.
i assume the nowitzki flop he's talking about is a play where the foul had nothing to do with nowitzki, although the commentators failed to figure that out until after they watched the first free throw and realized a black guy was on the line.
Refs were defintely trying to help the Mav's out. Refs were also generally incompetent in that game on the halfcourt shot that ended the 1st qrtr.
couple questionable calls but i think it was called fairly overall. More interesting is when will people get off the Lebron is the best ever bandwagon. he's not even the best on his team. The only reason they win tonight is because of Wade. And if Lebron would have given Wade the ball at the end of game 2 the Heat would be up 3-0
You objectively think Dwyane Wade is, currently (as in this season, not this series) a better basketball player than Lebron James, taking into account rebounding,defense, passing, and scoring? That's just lunacy. Dwyane MAY be a better closer of games, and even that is debatable, but I don't really think that you can say he's a better player. The reason they started 9-8 was, in part, because Lebron deferred too much to Wade. Wade's a phenomenal player, but Lebron is better at every facet of the game other than (and again, debatable) closing.
Simply not true. Wade was their "closer" tonight. More often then not, LeBron had that role in the Boston and Chicago series.
It's is not Wade's team just because he got their first. The bottom line is this: LeBron James is the only player in the world that could leave a team and have them go from first to worst.
Who else did Cleveland lose? Shaq and Ilgauskas are way over the hill. They traded Mo Williams only after they looked horrendous.
You minimize "a couple Bulls games and maybe a Celtics game" (it was actually two games in the Boston series where LBJ played closer, but hey) as if that is a small sample size, when in reality it is extremely significant. Being the closer in a NBA regular season game doesn't mean 1/10 of what closing out a big game past the first round of the playoffs mean.
And closing first round games doesn't mean 1/10 of what closing out NBA finals games means.
Have you been watching?
LeBron closed the Celtics out twice and the Bulls twice. Those weren't first round opponents. He flourished at the end of games, especially on the road and he has been as strong a closer as Wade during these playoffs. Anyone who has followed the Heat knows they have a "your night, my night" routine with Wade and James. Last night was just Wade's night.
When they lost those 6 or 7 games in a row at the buzzer it was because Lebron was dominating the ball at the end of the game and misses several late game shots. When the Heat lost game 2 it was because of the same thing. Wade had 36 points with 7 minutes left in the 4th during game 2 and Lebron decided he had to take fade away 3's and iso's. And that's the reason the Heat lost. Wade IS the closer for the Heat. And IMO Wade is the better overall player. And if you took Wade off the Heat and he went to Cleveland the Heat would have finished worst off than Cleveland so theirs no truth to that statement you made either.
are you saying that if you took Wade off of this year's Heat team (with Bosh and LeBron) and put him on this year's Cavs team (without LBJ) then the Cavs would have a better record? Because that's just not true.
As much as I dislike Lebron he was by far the better player in the series against Boston and Chicago. He hit huge shots to close out Boston and then in the next series against the Bulls he did the same. So far though in this series Wade has been the better scorer, but Lebron has been more of a facilitator. He's really in a way, a 6'8 point guard.
Wade's smaller so rebounding is moot. Wade is a much better defender. LeBron has his highlight from behind block that SC anchors splooge over but outside of that he's an average defender. Wade can play PG yes I do think he's a better passer. Even if I'm wrong, what good is all that talent when you can't get it done when it counts?
For the regular seaon, Lebron averaged 7.5 rebounds per game, while Wade averaged 6.4. So far in the playoffs, LeBron is averaging 8.5 rebounds per game to Wade's 7.5. So... how does Wade "often outrebound" LeBron? And it's nice that for this series LeBron only has 3 more assists than Wade does (18-15) but for the season LeBron averaged 7 assists per game, while Wade averaged 4.6. And so far during the playoffs it's 5.6 to 4.2 LeBron. Also, even with the great series that Wade is having, LeBron is still averaging more points per game in these playoffs and shooting far better from 3 (38% to 29%) while only shooting 1% worse from the field (48% for Wade, 47% for LeBron). Not to mention that, in the Chicago series, when the Heat needed a defensive stop at the end of game 4, it was LeBron that they put on Derrick Rose (the reigning MVP) and he shut him down. Before each Finals game, ABC shows the team gathering together and it's LeBron that addresses them, so this notion that the Heat are 'Wade's team' is garbage. Wade is a great player, a great defender, and a great leader, but give me the better player (LeBron) all day long.
No, it isn't "moot." One of Lebron's advantages is being 6'8. That's part of the equation. And "Wade often outrebounds Lebron" is laughable; small sample size much?
I agree that this IS Wade's team. I also think they'd be a better team if they let the best player on the planet have it as his team, and allow Wade to do what he does best: close. They aren't mutually exclusive.
And to the guy who said that Wade is a better defender than Lebron, again, hilarious. Did you watch the Chicago series? Wade never guarded Rose; Lebron did, despite being 6 inches taller.
I honestly think a lot of this "Wade is better" talk comes from the fact that Wade is a far more likeable guy. Hell, he's not even a better perimeter shooter. If Wade got a consistent 3 point shot, he'd have a much stronger argument. Or, say, a 33 percent 3 point shot.
I don't think there is anyway that D Wade is a better passer than Lebron, but that of course is just my opinion.
think Wade is better than Lebron. i think Lebron ma be the best athlete we've seen in the NBA ever. But Wade is a better shooter, he's not 6'9 so he's not as good as a rebounder but he is a great rebounder and he plays just as good defense as Lebron. He has had several blocks or steals that have been huge plays not just in this series but the whole year. I just don' t believe Lebron is as great as people make him out to be. If he wins a ring this year it will be because of Wade. And it's not even debatable about the closing aspect. Wade is a better closer than Lebron.When Miami won their 1st ring, Wade was amazing. And when it counts most he's playing amazing again. And i'm not a heat fan and i don't like Wade or Lebron.
but lebron plays better defense, i dont think its even close.
I'm a Bulls fan, I have serious distaste for Lebron, and think Wade is a hell of a player. But "better outside shooter" can be quantified. It's not true. Wade has a solid J from 20 feet in, but he's worse from farther away (taking into account NBA 3p line is 22 feet to 23'9 at the top).
Further, Lebron is a better rebounder, passer, and scorer. These are also quantifiable. Finally, when Dwyane Wade is able to guard the diverse range of players that Lebron can, including but not limited to guarding perhaps the best penetrator in the game today, Derrick Rose (and why, by the way, didn't the Heat put Wade on Rose for key stretches or much at all when their body types are very similar? Doesn't that say something about the coaches' confidence in Wade's d vs. Lebron's?) then this "Wade's a better defender" argument will have merit, which it currently does not.
This reminds me of when I lived in LA and people would say that Kobe was better than Lebron. My counter was "no, Kobe scores more points than Lebron. At a much shittier percentage. And doesn't rebound or pass." The game has many facets.
one of those Lebron is better Kobe types too. Get out of here. if your talking today yes Lebron is better than Kobe because Kobe is at the end of his career. But throughout their career's Kobe is the better player. And Lebron has a good series against Chicago from 3 point range and now he's a good outside shooter. He's never been a good outside shooter, he's a streaky shooter who will have a good game every so often from behind the 3. But Wade is all around a better shooter than Lebron. But there's probably no point debating this with you because you think Lebron is better than Kobe. And i find that comical.
This is quantifiable. Lebron is a career 47.9% FG shooter and 32.9% from 3. Kobe is a career 45.4% FG shooter, and 33.9% from 3. They are basically the same, with Lebron actually being a bit better.
Lebron also averages more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, and minutes than Kobe by fairly significant margins and turns the ball only .4 times more per game. I may hate the guy, but there's no denying he's the best player in the game right now. He does everything well.
Let me ask you something. What did Dwyane Wade do after 2006 before LeBron joined him? Let's review:
2007 - #4 seed in the playoffs, swept in first round
2008 - no playoffs, one of the worst teams in the NBA
2009 - #5 seed in the playoffs, lost in the first round to an inexperienced Atlanta squad
2010 - #5 seed in the playoffs, lost in five games in the first round
Contrast that with LeBron's accomplishments with a Cleveland roster that we now know for certain was stacked with bums (A finals appearance, another ECF, two other advancements to the second round, back-to-back #1 seeds in the East).
So who the hell says LeBron needs DWade more than Wade needs him? His ring is ancient history at this point and since then he's just looked like a guy who really needed another superstar teammate just to be relevant again. Yes, LeBron joined Wade's team not the other way around, but I think Wade playing in a cosmopolitan destination and LBJ playing in a dump had a little something to do with that.
Lebron vs. Dwade? What about me?
<br>
<br>Chrissy Bosh
Chalmers half court shot at the end of the first shouldn't have counted because it should have been a backcourt violation.
That 3 points right there potentially had a major impact on the end, so I think the mavs and heat can call it about even.
That's a really tough call though. There were a couple calls the other way that were beyond the pale (the no call when LeBron upfaked and Marion came down on top of him stands out). And that 3 is more than outweighed by the disparity in free throw attempts (12), especially considering the Heat were much more aggressive taking it to the hole.
I was happy with that no-call. Even though he got Marion in the air, LeBron initiated contact. Marion jumped straight up and would have come straight down (didn't jump at LeBron). If LeBron went straight up, there would have been no contact. I thought it was a great no-call.
Are you a miami hater too?
Unless its obvious, I usually dont like to discuss officiating as an issue in any sport. To me it usually always comes from the losing side not because the refs caused them to lose but because the losing side wants an excuse.
So any "plot" against them was worthless anyways...especially since a call against Dallas is what may have cost them the game. Theory debunked.
Or maybe, just maybe, Miami was good enough to overcome the so-called "plot?" If the refs had called Miami as they called Dallas, or vice-versa, I think Miami would've won by a lot more. Miami has dominated play throughout the series except for the last 7 minutes in Game 2, and a few mintues in game 3 (largely caused by swings in officiating IMO). Again, I'm upset either way if I feel the officiating was unfair. I just want a fair series so we can really see who the better team is. That's what sports are about, after all.
No. The officials made dozens of calls after that that affected the final score of the game. Boiling it down to one play that happened in the first quarter (and wasn't an obvious call) is stupid.
Stern's pet superstar team? A team and a player he already had officiating prop up to a title to swing the league back star-centric. And in fact, against the same organization, with an owner Stern can't stand. If there's been any conspiracies for teams lately, they've been for the one's Dwayne Wade has played for.
Not that blatant. The loose ball fouls that sent Dirk to the line got a bit much for a period of time, but that's it.
The only times I've watched a series and believed refs were truly trying to help a team win was LA-Sacramento '02 (particularly Game 6) and Miami-Dallas '06 (particularly Game 5). Most other questionable stuff I see I give them the benefit of the doubt because being an official isn't easy.
I agree 100%, anytime Dirk shoots the ball they call a foul, bosh, labron can get smacked and poked in the the eye... No foul....
*Lebron
*LeBron
In case anybody's interested for when the Pistons/NBA becomes the unwanted variety of OT...I visit another message board, www.wtfdetroit.com. It's devoted to Detroit professional sports and Michigan college athletics. My handle is lospistones :-)
I've been trying to get them to come over here to discuss U of M, too.
The NBA is a bookmakers league. Anyone who thinks tim donaghy was the only ref who took money to swing games is crazy. The lakers shot 40 free throws against the kings in the donaghy series, and than I watched the heat shoot 35 a game against the bulls. It's a dirty league.