Winners in 6 of Last 7, 26 Games to Go; Do Red Wings Get In?

Submitted by smotheringD on February 22nd, 2023 at 1:20 AM

Impressive road trip.  It's been 7 years since they've made the playoffs, and 10 since they've advanced beyond the first round.  But Larkin has been one of the best in the League since the All-Star break, and Lalonde has them playing great hockey.

13 home and 13 away games left against the second toughest strength of schedule in the NHL.  Big win tonight in Washington without Larks who uncharacteristically cross-checked TJ Oshie in the jaw.  (Looked like his stick might have ridden up on Oshie's.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QQFjbsXl7Y

They're in 8th place right now by percentage of available points won.  

At least they're in the hunt and playing good hockey.  Hopefully they'll catch the Pens for 7th place to avoid getting crushed by the Bruins in the first round.

Do you think they make the playoffs this year?  Are you enjoying the product on the ice?  Should Stevie sign Larkin?  At what number?  Rumors are Wings were offering $8M and Dylan was seeking $9M.  His recent play has helped his cause.

kdhoffma

February 22nd, 2023 at 4:11 AM ^

Wings have been hot, no doubt.  4-1 on the road swing was huge. They've been a lot of fun to watch lately.

Do they make the playoffs?  I'm becoming a believer, but they have a tough schedule moving forward.  Looking at projected point totals, as you stated they currently slot into the final wildcard.  However, of the 7 teams fighting for those 2 wildcard spots in the east, the wings remaining schedule is the second toughest (by average projected point total) next to the Sabres.  The have 4 games left against the Bruins and Canes and 8 against teams fighting for wildcard spots. Wings are also the only one of the 7 with their last 3 games of the season against teams projected to be over 100 points (though that could be a positive if all three of them are locked into their spot.)

I think a big concern is how much rest Husso can get down the stretch. He's started every game but 1 since the ASG, and their next 5 games leading up to the trade deadline are against teams solidly in the playoffs or fighting for a spot.

As for D-Boss?  I'm sure they'll work out a deal. My guess is it will be in the 8-year range with an AAV of closer to $9 than $8 mil.  He's worth it and has been playing great this season, especially since the ASG.  I don't think he should be asked to give a home team discount as the wings haven't proven to be a playoff team let alone a contender.

smotheringD

February 22nd, 2023 at 5:18 AM ^

Agreed.  Another interesting stat to look at is goal differential.  When you sort the Eastern Conference by P% (one column to the right of PTS) here:

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/standings/2022/conference

Boston is playing lights out scoring 92 more goals than they've given up.  The Canes, Devils and Leafs are all +42 to +43.  Lightning and Rangers +38 and +36 respectively.  Then the bottom falls out, Pens +2 and the Wings -5.  These stats are probably skewed a bit because teams are gambling more at the end of games pulling their goalies earlier to try and salvage a point and are giving up more empty netters.

Going to be fun watching them run the gauntlet down the stretch.

I'mTheStig

February 22nd, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^

These stats are probably skewed a bit because teams are gambling more at the end of games 

In mid December - mid Jan, Wings went through a craptastic stretch where it was not unusual for them to give up 5 (or more) goals a game.

Ned got shipped to GR and Husso has been logging a shit ton of ice time since.  The Wings went from New Years Eve to last week between starts for the #2 goale.

XM - Mt 1822

February 22nd, 2023 at 5:52 AM ^

they started pretty well, then miserably stumbled through a mid-november to mid-january patch, losing 3 and 5 games in a row all through that time.  have won 8 of the last 11, shown signs of actual hockey life, and who knows.  unfortunately they've been bad for a decade and other than larkin and bertuzzi i couldn't tell you a single player on the team.  would be nice to see them keep the momentum. 

fishgoblue1

February 22nd, 2023 at 6:20 AM ^

1. Yes but eliminated early. Making a push is great learning curve for the future.

2. I am enjoying the product on the ice.  When the Wings and Tigers are good its good for their sports. But the Tigers won't be good for a while.

3.  Lock Larkin up long term. Pay the man. He is not only part of the present but a huge part of the future.

bacon1431

February 22nd, 2023 at 6:36 AM ^

Not getting my hopes up. Took a huge stretch like this to get back in contention. We have a couple games in hand, so that helps on the outlook. However, consistency over 26 games is going to be difficult for this team. If we make it, I’d be amazed. Lalonde, coach of the Year if so (I don’t follow the league enough to actually say this with any conviction). 
 

Don’t think we have a choice in resigning Larkin to what he wants. If we let him go, rebuild takes a setback. 

Navy Wolverine

February 22nd, 2023 at 7:22 AM ^

It’s great to see the Wings play well. 538 currrently has the Wings with a 20% probability of making the playoffs after beating the Caps last night. They have games in hand on most of the other teams but as mentioned above their SOS is tough from here out. Good stretch recently. They’ve done well to beat some mediocre teams. They are getting some decent puck luck for a change - getting outshot in almost all their games but taking advantage of opportunities. 
 

They will definitely lock Larkin up on an 8 year deal. Would be nice to get it done prior to the TDL. More curious to see what they will do with Bertuzzi. He’s been injured most of the year and has t produced much when playing although he’s been better recently. Not sure if he fits long term or not. He may get a shorter show me deal or get traded.

GRBluefan

February 22nd, 2023 at 7:35 AM ^

Happy they are performing well, but I don't think they make it this year.  Hockey is a game of peaks and valleys, and they are fresh off a peak.  They will have a rough spot at some point.

jdib

February 22nd, 2023 at 7:39 AM ^

Fabbri and Bertuzzi coming back off of injury have helped a bit on the lines.  I wonder how much  better Detroit would be if Vrana was healthy and in the right mindset.  They have a chance to get into the playoffs but it will be tough sledding.  Atlantic Division is crazy tough.

TheDirtyD

February 22nd, 2023 at 7:53 AM ^

They should. Right now they’re playing the game the right way easy play not forcing pucks out the middle in your own d zone. It helps they’re playing with everyone projected to be in their top 6 minus Raymond which he should be back soon. The goaltending depth is the biggest concern. 

1VaBlue1

February 22nd, 2023 at 8:13 AM ^

Lock up Larkin at whatever cost that takes.  The Wings have been blessed with long term 'homegrown' talent leading down the middle (Stevie Y, Sergei, Pavel, Hank...).  Need to keep that going with Larkin - trading for top players is a 2-4 year thing before they go somewhere else.  Build a team of leaders and fill it out around them.

Booted Blue in PA

February 22nd, 2023 at 8:13 AM ^

The current streak has been fun to watch.... I'm not sold on out goalie situation though.  Making the playoffs without a strong netminder is a pretty tall order.

Can they keep the momentum and build on it, peaking at the ideal time like a Coach B team?

Or was this a really good run that is going to fizzle out because they were punching above their weight class?

We shall see.   LGRW 

Perkis-Size Me

February 22nd, 2023 at 8:27 AM ^

Couldn't say, but even if the Wings don't make it this year, they're will be contenders in the not-so-distant future. I look at the product Yzerman built down in Tampa, and I have to believe there is little reason to think he couldn't do it in Detroit as well. 

Will Detroit make three consecutive cups and win two of them? I don't know, but he will make them into contenders. Yzerman showed up in Tampa around 2010 and while they did make the ECF in 2011, they didn't really start becoming the team they are now until around the 2015 season.

My point is, even if it doesn't happen this year, keep the faith. This guy will get you there. 

alum96

February 22nd, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^

Defensive pipeline is looking good.  Stevie Y has a bunch if big burly and pretty skilled kids in Europe and AHL.  We look good there for the now and the future.

They lack star forwards and centers and depth of quality.  No Kucherov, Pastrnak, Hughes at the top (I am ignoring the 2 stars from Edmonton and the Leafs guys as those teams do nothing in the playoffs)

Their 2nd - 5th best guys are all mid 30s in points.  The real contenders those 2nd - 5th guys have Larkin type points.  Hence the goal differential issue.  Tampa has 7 guys ahead of where our 2nd guy is in points for example.  Part of that is Vrana issues and Bertuzzi injuries but improving top 2 lines is difference btw bottom of the playoff picture and having any chance for return of the glory days. They have nice competent players on those lines but not much in the way of elite.  Maybe a Raymond or Berggren can develop into that someday but the great ones usually show out early - see Robertson Dallas or Hughes Devils. (I am excluding the generational guys who everyone had tabbed at age 14)  Raymond is still 20. 

smotheringD

February 22nd, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^

Great point on the elite forwards.  The rosters of the Wings Cup teams in the '90s and aughts were loaded like that.

You would think you would get one picking 8th overall but I'm not sure Kasper will get there.  I've loved so much of what Stevie has done, Seider, Lalonde, and I'm hoping Kasper surprises me.

Brimley

February 22nd, 2023 at 7:32 PM ^

GREAT ones show out early--true. For example, one Steve Yzerman looked great as an 18 year old. However, DAMN GOOD ones sometimes find it after struggling a bit. Tage Thompson comes to mind as someone who made the leap in his 20s. Stevie himself says that he isn't always concerned about a player's development until around 25 years old.

GoBlueGoWings

February 22nd, 2023 at 8:31 AM ^

Not only are they getting in, they are winning in Cup. Every time the Avs win the Cup, the Red Wings win it the following year. SCIENCE!

The Yzerplan is working since we are even talking about the playoffs 

Bluesince89

February 22nd, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^

I will take a lot of heat for this, but I don't think Larkin is worth that kind of money. I don't fault him for trying to get it nor do I expect him to take a hometown discount. At that salary, he'd be among the top 10 paid centers in the league. The problem with Larkin is that he's been on some godawful teams without a lot of goal scorers on his wings over the years, so it's hard to really assess. Some advanced metrics have him as a top 10 center in the league. I don't think he is. I think he's a very good/high end player, but a notch below of what I think of when I think of elite centers (take McDavid out of the conversation because he's just out of this world and I don't think it's fair to compare any player to him at all). 

My take/preference would be to deal him for prospects/picks. While I'm very pleased with the Yzerplan to date, this core group is still a ways away from being able to compete for a Cup. Yzerman had a much fuller cupboard when he took over the Bolts. Lecavalier and St. Louis were still there and I think Stamkos was already drafted too. 

Wings really need to get lucky in the lottery and land a can't miss prospect in the top 5 of the draft one of these years. While it's been a while since the Wings were any good, considering that Yzerman's 4 year anniversary is coming up and given COVID in the middle of it, we're still pretty early on in the real rebuild. 

Bluesince89

February 22nd, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^

I also get the argument that he's a two-way player and not just focused on offense, but I don't think he's an elite, Selke type of center the way Bergeron or Towes are/were where you could excuse his scoring numbers. Again, very good on that end, but a notch below those guys. I'm not making the Datsyuk/Zetteberg comparison because I think they were both the rare combination of elite on both ends, especially in comparison to more recent Selke winners/types of players. I know I'm a homer when I say this, but I don't think there have been such talented two-way forwards who were elite on both ends of the ice since 91 in his pime. 

alum96

February 22nd, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^

Yes this.  On a Cup winning team is a 2C.  

Complicated story on this one as he the captain and has been around for some awful years.  Not sure he'd be getting $9M on the open market unless it's with a trash team with a lot of cap space.  The teams with elite centers won't be paying him that sort of money to be the 2nd center as they don't have room in their cap. 

Disagree on the timeline comment - he is 26 not 29 or 30.  You need some veterans on a team and you hope in 2025+ they are annual contenders if the young kids come through.  He will be late 20s then with a good 6-7 years ahead of him hopefully.

I'mTheStig

February 22nd, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^

What gives Larkin leverage is Bo Horvat and Filip Forsberg.

Forsberg is a 40 goal scorer but he's rarely played more than 2/3s of a given season.

The Horvat money is just fucking ridiculous.  Best season ever was 27 goals.

Stamkos and Cindy have $8.5MM averages both both of those guys are on the back 9 of their careers -- so not really going to compare them even though the Wings may be considering them to ratchet Larkin's ask down.

Bluesince89

February 22nd, 2023 at 1:19 PM ^

Agreed 100%. I even think that AAV is a little high though considering where he's at, it's going to have to come up, which puts the Wings in a tough spot. That's why I'm fine with getting value for him. Even if this team sneaks in the playoffs, I don't think they win more than two games in the first round and I'm being very very very generous in that assessment. They lack the experience and talent. They need to hit on a top pick and keep building around that. Unfortunately, they've not had the best luck with the lottery. I'm very pleased with the Seider and Raymond picks and I've been fine with Yzerman's other selections. Just wish they could have hit on one of the top 2 or 3 picks ONE of those years. No one's been a can't miss - Hughes has been good and MB has been good too. The top of the draft this year looks unreal though. Bedard and that guy from Russia look like they're going to tear up the league for a while.

Bluesince89

February 22nd, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^

McDavid's cap hit is $12.5MM and his salary is $12MM and Matthews at $11.6MM/$7.9MM. 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse

Am I missing something? Even if the figures are correct, and I think the question is a little ridiculous considering McDavid is probably more talented in every respect than any player since Crosby and Matthews is a very elite center, the only way Larkin is worth that much is if you believe he's a 1C on a Cup contending team. I don't think he's a 1C and Wings are clearly not a Cup contending team and I don't think he could center the top line on a Cup contending team. You don't pay that kind of money to a second line center. He's a 1C on this team because the Red Wings have no other capable options.

I'm not saying Larkin is a bad player, but he's not elite. Look at the guys getting paid that kind of money and other than some outliers, who would you take Larkin over? I can't think of many. 

mGrowOld

February 22nd, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^

I sure hope so.  In my basement are the framed "day after" Detroit newspaper headlines from the Stanley Cup wins in 97, 98, 2002 & 2008 and an autographed, game worn Stevey Y jersey.  I can remember where i was watching the clinching game in each series. 

I can also remember being absolutely sick to my stomach when the 62 win, record-breaking team in 95 got swept in the finals by the Devils and heartbroken when the fucking Avalanche (and they will always be the fucking Avalanche) beat us in western finals in 96.  And to this day I can see the puck rolling across the crease in front of an open goal in the final seconds of game seven of the finals against the stupid Penguins in 09.  Funny how the defeats leave a much more lasting impact on my memory than the four cup wins.

It would so nice to have meaningful Stanley Cup hockey back in Detroit again.  Because the leagues are better when iconic franchises like the Red Wings are good.

Zoltanrules

February 22nd, 2023 at 9:33 AM ^

It's great to have meaningful games in March. Husso has been a great pick-up and Larkin is playing as well as anyone since the All-Star break. Seider and Walman have been really improving on defense. Just sneaking in the last playoff spot is a realistic expectation and would be a great maturing experience for this young team.

And yeah, pay Larkin!

I'mTheStig

February 22nd, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^

Rumors are Wings were offering $8M and Dylan was seeking $9M

Ridiculous numbers for someone whose career high in goals in a season is 32 and is a career minus player.

I like Larkin as much as the next player but we don't need Yzerman to suddenly lose his mind and start writing Holland-esqe contracts.

A2Photonut

February 22nd, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^

I'm just glad they're keeping themselves in the conversation, this time last year they had fallen apart more or less. They've been improving incrementally the last few years, I hope they can make the leap this year.

Larkin being on a tear is a big part of it, but also the increased depth. Who expected Pius Suter to have 5 goals in 5 games? And finding a spot for Vrana was really tough because most of the guys are playing well, even though Zadina isn't scoring at the level you want he is playing energetic, defensively responsible hockey. Also there's Fabbri, and Rasmussen and Veleno both seem  improved.The d-corp is better, Hronek's resurgensce and Walman and Maata are surprises, and Husso is super solid. 

I still think they're a player or 2 away from being regular playoff contenders, but it looks as if they're headed in the right direction.

Colt Burgess

February 22nd, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^

Kyle Connor is the same age as Larkin. He is 19th overall in scoring and is making $7.1 million. Larkin is 34th in league scoring. Yzerman is still dealing with Ken Holland's mess. Justin Abdelkader is on the books for a million a year until 2026.  

Navy Wolverine

February 22nd, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^

Holland also did Larkin a big favor by giving him a full NTC in the final year of his current contract. It gives Larkin a lot of leverage in the negotiation because SY can't trade him (without DL's approval) if it looks like they won't converge on a deal or at least use the threat of a trade to get him to come down on price and sign before the TDL.