Why not transition Last years offense back in now?
Question for board, mainly space coyote if he reads this. His post was very informative. I thought Michigan’s offense was good last year just missing explosive plays in passing game. So why not transition last years offense back in? I know all spring and fall were repped for #speedinspace ha, but How many weeks would it take to transition that back in? Then sprinkle in gattis stuff like space coyote said should have actually been done. U have a game to rep it in also with Rutgers, so essentially 2 weeks. Harbaugh needs take control and show gattis what needs done cuz clearly it’s not working....
September 24th, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
Because they spent the entire offseason, spring, and all of fall doing something else and now they are much worse at the previous stuff.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:19 AM ^
And the guy who ran that offense is no longer here.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
It's almost like people forgot how the team repped all Frey's shit, dropped it when it clearly wasn't going to work, and then sucked badly all season as a result.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
The amount of people wanting to go back to last year's offense is pure hilarity, better than anything on TV right now.
"CHANGE THE OFFENSE DAMNIT!!!!"
Spongebob Narrator: *9 months later*
"Fuck, turn around, turn around, TURN AROUND!!"
September 24th, 2019 at 9:39 AM ^
It's true. A lot of people really don't know what they're talking about.
If this offense clicks, Michigan will still win some games this year. If it doesn't, it's going to be a disaster. However, throwing away all the practice time to go back to whatever we had last year is as near a guarantee of disaster as you can find - there's zero upside to it.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Transition costs are a thing. And we're paying that price now.
I wish we'd never left Jedd's offense.
I also think that there is something to be said for consistency and tweaking. Now that we have this monstrosity and all the sunk cost practice time let's do our damnedest to fix it.
WIsconsin has been running a "archaic' offense for years. And is consistently good. I think partially because they are awesome at it with their ball control identity.
September 24th, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
We didn't leave "Jedd's Offense."
"Jedd's Offense" left us
September 24th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
That's a fair point. I'll rephrase: I wish we could have kept Fisch, and I wish we hadn't changed to this one, but just improved what we had.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Transition costs are a thing. And we're paying that price now.
I wish we'd never left Jedd's offense.
I also think that there is something to be said for consistency and tweaking. Now that we have this monstrosity and all the sunk cost practice time let's do our damnedest to fix it.
WIsconsin has been running a "archaic' offense for years. And is consistently good. I think partially because they are awesome at it with their ball control identity.
September 24th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
That Wisconsin team was basically us from last year. 2019 Michigan lost to 2018 Michigan, soundly.
That doesn't mean I think we should turn back. What is good enough for Wisconsin (8-10 wins) was not good enough for us. That was near-consensus after OSU last year.
We took a gamble at finding an offense with a higher ceiling. And any transition comes with a temporarily lower floor. But the offseason projections (12-0 per Phil Steele, Heisman talk for Shea, WTKA's continual ridiculousness) didn't properly prepare the fanbase for a quasi-rebuild year. It was clear, after Army, that this was a quasi-rebuild year, yet people thought we were going to walk into Madison against a team firing on all cylinders and beat them.
If we really want to see what the potential of this new system is, we need to give it a year. That probably means absorbing a couple of losses along the way. But we can't have the win-big reward without the risk. I accept the risk.
September 25th, 2019 at 3:07 PM ^
I'm on board 100% with that.
We took a gamble at finding an offense with a higher ceiling. And any transition comes with a temporarily lower floor. But the offseason projections (12-0 per Phil Steele, Heisman talk for Shea, WTKA's continual ridiculousness) didn't properly prepare the fanbase for a quasi-rebuild year.
One of the things I really struggle with is that this fanbase *never* seems to be properly prepared for any sort of transition costs. I was told (in real life) many times that I was just crazy that switching the offense might cause issues. I myself drank the 'speed in space' kool-aid thinking we'd look like Oklahoma lite and the offense could carry the defense a bit.
But we have this idea that not only is 9-10 wins unacceptable (even though that was the norm in the 90s) but that any time we change to try to up our success rate there is *NO* amount of slack allowed.
For once, lets go with consistency. For once, after the costs of the coaching carousel we have seen, lets keep an offense. For once, instead of panic, lets have fortitude. We'll have a better chance 3 years down the road.
September 24th, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
With the way the defense is, they are going to need a whole lot more than an offense that is clicking. They'll need a top 10 offense capable of putting up 40+ on teams like Penn State, MSU, OSU, ND etc on the schedule.
September 24th, 2019 at 1:16 PM ^
I see you haven't fully given up. I'm not thinking about beating OSU or ND. I'm thinking about managing not to lose to Indiana.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:40 AM ^
and they are the same people who wanted Pep gone. I did, because it baffled me how nonsensical it was when we'd be down 20 and they are running the full time off the clock... had they created real tempo, Pep would have survived, but he blew it.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
Yeah, the same people who were baffled when I defended Pep last year. We needed the ability to change tempos, we needed a much better short passing game and RPO package, and we need to tie the run and pass game together (all points Space Coyote made, all things I said at times last year). We didn't need an overhaul.
That being said, I don't think Gattis can be declared a failure in 3 games. This can work still. We need to grab a handful of pass plays, run plays, and RPOs to perfect first. Maybe 10 of each. Perfect 30 plays to get comfortable, then expand. I agree with Space Coyote - the design here seems good, but the implementation seems rushed and seems to have overwhelmed our guys.
I also think we should try to put 80 on Rutgers - seriously. We need live reps, we need to see things connect, and we need a confidence boost. People said the bye couldn't have come at a better time, but really, Rutgers couldn't have come at a better time.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:42 AM ^
Years ago I was working for a firm that was struggling so the CEO instituted a series of pretty radical changes in the organization to try and turn things around. And while they were working, they werent working fast enough in the minds of the Board of Directors so they took him out and replaced him with an outsider with literally no experience in our industry to try and "shake things up".
Do you know the first thing he did? He wanted to show the BOD he was making changes so he immediately undid all the changes we made (that were definitely working) and put us back on the course we used to be on that was definitely NOT working. And when we tried to tell him we had been doing the very thing he wanted us to go to until just before he arrived he accused us all of being "stuck in the past and unwilling to embrace change."
Needless-to-say he also failed. As did the company eventually.
September 24th, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
Having worked in a large company for 26 years I’ve seen the same thing happen several times. Never ceases to amaze me.
September 24th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
26 years at Government Motors.... crankiness understood.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:44 AM ^
I still can't believe we lost to a horrible Wisconsin team.
September 24th, 2019 at 2:34 PM ^
Horrible enough to truck all of their opponents so far and be ranked in the top ten. Michigan hasn't trucked anyone and is barely in the top 20. As Bill Parcells says: you are what your record says you are
September 24th, 2019 at 3:02 PM ^
Honestly i just threw this comment in here because a certain someone said Wisconsin wasn't good and their coach wasn't either. They would finish 7-5. Either they are really good or we are horrible. I think they could have easily hung 60 if they wanted to. Luckily they called off the dogs.
Usually not one of those i told you so people, but this person was adamant before season and leading up the game.
September 24th, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Spicoli with another great HOT TAKE...
It wasn't a matter of "scheme" it was a matter of using the resources they had properly. The previous offense was just fine, the team just needed to learn how to execute properly, and tighten up the mistakes.
Harbaugh is now beginning to realize this... it wasn't the previous scheme that sucked, just his QB and his coaching of the "Team"... fun watching this speed in space clown show and seeing receivers stop and stand still at the end of their routes.
Furthermore, there were many people on here, myself included, who didn't want a new scheme for this exact reason. It screams of the Dick Rod era where there was ZERO clock management. An offense like that weighs heavily on a D, and ours lost key players and hasn't been consistent at all this year.
September 24th, 2019 at 6:25 PM ^
Allegedly
September 24th, 2019 at 9:19 AM ^
Uhhhh, chaos and the fact that Gattis doesn’t run that system. That is a really dumb idea. Plus, it’s not that it’s not working...it’s a new system. There will be issues and based on SC’s post yesterday I don’t think we can say it’s a failure ONLY THREE GAMES in. Lots to be fixed but not a failure. Not yet anyway.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:27 AM ^
The only way this team beats Ohio State is they improve massively, find some defensive tackles, and Ohio State meanwhile falls asleep and thinks Michigan is down so they can forget about the game.
Anybody think all three of these things happen, and we manage to beat every team but say ND along the way? Maybe we're 2016 Penn State. I don't think so.
Besides, the Buckeyes are the B1G's best shot at the playoffs. More so than 2016. Anybody think the refs will be anything but full on Buckeye biased?
September 24th, 2019 at 9:34 AM ^
this is the plan, clearly. lull OSU into a sense of security so they take their eye of the ball. We'll win most of our games but look like dogshit in a couple losses against decent teams so they'll all put their feet up and then WHAM! Shea "Tom Brady" Patterson goes off for 8 TDs and 600 yards in The Game, Harbaugh gets his first win over OSU, Ryan Day's regime begins to crumble and Michigan rises like a phoenix for decades of dominance.
That or we missed on some key positional recruiting on D and lost some top guys to the NFL, are trying to install an offense that's more difficult to install than we thought led by a guy in his first year running the show, have had some key injuries that have kept guys out or limited their effectiveness, and have a few weeks to figure our shit out or this is going to look like a complete goddamn mess for the rest of the season, Ryan Day will curb-stomp us by 1000 and OSU will remain dominant until the heat-death of our solar system.
Stay tuned next week to find out!
September 24th, 2019 at 9:43 AM ^
I remember when Harbaugh moved Hudson to OL, was wondering if we are getting some DT recruits, or Paea or whoever is stepping up. Even with Solomon leaving, counting on fragile Dwumfour and Jeter coming off injury, is poor planning. Now we have OL three deep, and no DT.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Yeah that is the exact alternate dream I am having to the current nightmare.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
The refs were favoring us like nothing I've ever seen in Columbus last year and we still couldn't do anything.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:54 AM ^
We're clearly sandbagging so we can go on a 9-0 run the rest of the way now.
September 24th, 2019 at 10:41 AM ^
How dare you try to tell me that I can't fire everyone and declare everything a failure after 3 games. This is an outrage
September 24th, 2019 at 11:15 AM ^
I disagree. It's not working.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:21 AM ^
Offense is not the issue, our defense is a major problem right now! We scored 14 points against Wisconsin on Saturday and lost. We scored 14 points on Wisconsin in 2016 and won.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
If we didn’t miss 3 FGs in that game it would’ve been 23-7. The offense did its job to get us into FG range.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:24 AM ^
To be fair, both offense and defense are major problems right now. The defense was fine (basically) against MTSU and Army. They were bad against Wisconsin. The 14 points came in relative garbage time - Michigan was never in that game.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:38 AM ^
The punting game has been pretty good. It flipped the field several times, but the D was unable to stop the ensuing drive unfortunately. Even so, the special teams have been pretty good (see onside kick)
September 24th, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^
This exactly. While the offense hasn’t been good by any metric, initial struggles were expected as we transition to a new system, with a banged up starting QB who is on his 4th system in 5 years. Not an excuse, but the potential for the offense to be better is there.
The defense, on the other hand, has been terrible. Can’t tackle, no QB pressure, terrible coverage.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:26 AM ^
This exactly. While the offense hasn’t been good by any metric, initial struggles were expected as we transition to a new system, with a banged up starting QB who is on his 4th system in 5 years. Not an excuse, but the potential for the offense to be better is there.
The defense, on the other hand, has been terrible. Can’t tackle, no QB pressure, terrible coverage.
September 25th, 2019 at 12:15 AM ^
The offense has been terrible and the defense has been terrible. There seems to be a major problem with leadership and culture in the program, as there is too much talent, both in the players and the coaches, to be performing at this level.
But football’s a weird game. I remember watching the Pats get blown out by the chiefs 41-14 on Monday night in 2014, dropping the Pats to 2-2 after 4 lackluster weeks where Brady looked flat out washed up. I remember thinking Brady was done, the Pats dynasty was over and it was probably time to start transitioning to Jimmy G. Of course, they proceeded to go on a major tear after that disastrous game and went on to win the Super Bowl that season and then win 2 more after that.
You just never know what’s going on in that locker room. Hopefully Wisconsin was the nadir for this team and a major wake up call for both the players and the coaches. I still believe in Harbaugh as a coach, and I still believe in the talent on this team. If they believe in each other they can still turn it around. We will find out soon enough.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:38 AM ^
I think you need the /s on your post - I can't tell if you're serious! I mean, scoring 14 points should not be considered enough for a win. Ever. And it doesn't matter how good your defense is.
September 24th, 2019 at 10:15 AM ^
I.E. Alabama getting defenstrated in the NC game last year.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:53 AM ^
You are out of your mind if you think offense isn't a problem when we had ZERO POINTS until the 3rd quarter. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
September 24th, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
I think he omitted the /s *shrug*
September 24th, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
Can't tell if you're being serious about the offense. They didn't score anything till later in the 2nd half when Wisconsin had a few players tossed for targetting and they may or may not have had back ups in. Saying they were ok is like the revisionism we see with saying "The offense scored 39 vs OSU!". The points came well after the game was decided. When the outcome was still in doubt, the offense scored 0 points this weekend.
September 24th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
"Offense is not the issue"
is really one of the funniest things I've heard on here in a while.
September 24th, 2019 at 12:12 PM ^
A QB who can’t see the field, WRs who can’t ever get open, relying on a freshman RB to be the guy, two RTs who aren’t ready to be scout team tackles, and a new OC trying to run an offense like it has Alabama talent is not a problem?
September 24th, 2019 at 9:23 AM ^
Two questions for goblue4321:
1) Do you really think the team will do better by running an offense that they haven't been practicing since the end of last season?
2) What message would the move send to coaches who might be candidates for the offensive coordinator position, the next time it becomes available?
September 24th, 2019 at 9:29 AM ^
Yea I do think running last years run game concepts would help, anything is better than what happened at Wisconsin. M can’t run or pass this year, could atleast run ball last year. And who cares about the next offensive coordinator, it’s been harbaugh this whole time until now and he let someone take it over and look what we got
September 24th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
Why do you think that using a run game that the team hasn't been practicing since the end of last season would make the offense better?? Almost every time I've seen assertions of "anything is better than" the current situation--it finds a way to get worse. E.g., anything was better than the first time that Hoke had a bad O-line at UM--until the next season, when Hoke had a worse O-line at UM. Last year, weren't people saying we couldn't get worse than Pep Hamilton's offense? And now?
September 24th, 2019 at 9:29 AM ^
Double post