What would the Harbaugh era have looked like had he walked into
a stockpile of QB's, ala vintage 90's UM? Something like Urban Meyer walked into, 2-3 perfect QB's for his system. In 5 Harbaugh years, he's, arguably, never had a top 20 QB. His best QB was the last third of the season with Rudock, in his first and only season with Harbaugh. In the 90's to early aughts, we regularly had quality QB's and quality backups. Starting with Grbac and ending with Henne, every QB to start a game for UM was on an NFL team at one point. I count 8 QB's in there, highlighted with Grbac, Brady, Henson, Henne. Griese and Collins weren't bad either.
Presumably, we wouldn't have lost any additional games, but which games would we have won with a top-20 QB. And had we a top 5 QB for 1-2 years, which additional games would we have won?
I'd primarily focus on O$U of course, and we would have won handily in 16' with a vintage QB, and most likely in 17'. I also think we'd have had a %30 shot last year with really good QB play. We'd be 5-0 against MSU, instead of 3-2. I also think we'd possibly be 4-1 against PSU rather than 3-2, and might have won last year. We'd have possibly pulled out Wiscy in 17 and USC (ntUSC) in the bowl, so I'll say those are split. We might have won at ND in 18, but that was something of a defensive failure. Still, good QB play could have made that a different game.
I've listed 8-10 games, with 16/17 O$U, and 17' MSU being sure things in my opinion. That leaves 5-7, if we won 2-3 of those, that's one fewer loss each year for Jimmy. A record that looks like 11-2, 11-2, 9-4, 11-2, 10-3. 2-3 v. O$U, and a Big 10 title in playoff birth in 16'.
That would make everybody on this board feel quite different about what's going on, and all attributable to one position, and what was left in the cupboard by Hokie. Having said that, had Hokie and Borges been able to evaluate, recruit and develop QB's, Jimmy might never have been hired.
If my aunt had testicles …
She does.
....and you know this how???
Your Mom said so....
There would be one set of testicles when you two get together!
If you think the issues we're facing today are somehow caused by having to use Jake Ruddock at QB in 2015 I don't know what to tell you.
BTW I hate almost everything about this post but especially your use of O$U and Hokie.
But congrats man. This will surely be an entry into the shitpost of the week contest I think you won a little while ago.
Ruddddddddddock
Not to mention the click bait title.
Then why reply? Taking your precious and obviously valuable intellectual time to criticize someone posting about football on a football blog. It makes you look like a petulant troll.
I don't see the problem with using O$U. Seems pretty self explanatory.
Yeah, I honestly don't mind it either. Plus, it's fun to use $ in a sentence that does not involve U.S. currency.
Michigan came oh-so-close to making the playoff in Harbaugh's second year here. If there's a future NFL star on the roster, sure, maybe Michigan wins that game. But after 2016 the trajectory of the program was just fine.
In three seasons since Harbaugh has not produced a top-flight QB despite having plenty of time to recruit and/or develop one.
Hoke left the OL cupboard just as bare as the QB room. It caused problems and was as responsible for the Iowa and OSU losses as the QB situation.
Michigan just put four offensive linemen into the NFL draft. That got fixed. The QBs didn't. Harbaugh is the HC, it's his responsibility.
Your post consists of logic and sound argument. No wonder you’re getting negged.
Next time post things like “Jimmy is the man! Our RB’s are so talented. Harbaugh is the guy for the job!”
Amen. In 2016 we were 40th in the nation in sacks allowed (not terrible but not good) and 98th in tackles for loss allowed (ouch). Those numbers do not speak to a highly functioning oline, which is how Speight ended up hurt in the first place. In 2017 those numbers don't get any better... 110th in sacks allowed and 91st in tackles for loss allowed. Qb hasn't been/isn't the ONLY thing holding us back.
Not all on the O line though. The offensive staff didn't have a clue what they were doing half the time in 2016. They were running read-option with Peppers against Iowa scrape exchanges with no idea how to counter and kept running it as if the results were going to change.
That's how you get such a difference in sacks (which are largely indicative of OL pass pro quality) vs TFLs (the excess TFLs are largely play calling issues).
The 2016 OL was pretty talented (Cole, Magnuson, Newsome/Bredeson) and highly experienced (+ Braden & Kalis) and they were plenty good enough but the playcalling was...bad.
Yes, after all those guys left/Newsome got hurt, the 2017 line was woefully inexperienced thanks to the late Hoke era/transition classes. Not much the coaches could have done about that, even though the play-calling remained pretty bad until they uncorked some brilliant stuff against OSU.
After that, yes, the OL has been excellent thanks to good recruiting by Harbaugh and development by Warriner.
Playcalling / game planning has been a bigger issue than OL in the Harbaugh era, by far.
speight's injury and related ineffectiveness was one of the biggest reasons we lost at osu in 2016...and the refs. that game changed the trajectory of both schools big time.
hoke left the cupboard sporadically bare. most coaches walk in as a new-hire into a tire fire. we had some holes when JH was hired, sure, but there are way, way worse rosters that coaches inherit than what hoke left for JH.
It’s true. Harbaugh walked into an elite D and an offense with NFL WRs (real ones) and an elite TE. He also had a sure handed, if slow, workhorse RB and a transfer former five star RB.
It wasn’t as great as urban’s landing spot at OSU, but it was pretty darn good. The vast majority of new coaches have less to work with.
Yeah even though xtramelanin is always drinking the cool-aid, I think he's right here.
Agree with all the above but if you want to play what if you might also want to consider what Hoke's record would have been had RichRod left him a quality redshirt freshman at QB. I love Denard and Devin but one was a running back and the other was a wide receiver.
Or we can the okay the “greatest what if” and wonder what would have happened if Carr and the other powers that be actually supported RR and tried to do whatever they could to bring success to Michigan, instead of torpedoing the program.
We are where we are, to a great extent, due to the selfish and petty choices of those in our own program.
Jesus Christ himself could not have fixed RRs lack of ability to CEO a defense.
Jesus can hit a curveball and develop a sound defense. Jesus is down with sports.
But can he swim?
Support for Rich Rod wasn’t going to change his square peg-round hole offense with the personnel he inherited and his inability to field a defense capable of withstanding B1G offenses. Support or not, it was a bad fit.
Devin Gardner was a 5-star, #1 dual-threat QB coming out of high school according to Rivals. I distinctly remember being very excited about him. Rivals apparently re-ranked him to a 4-star. He was not a glorified wide receiver. Hoke and Borges messed him up.
Michigan is Urban's bitch.
Zach Smith is Urban's ball lifter
Most of us life-long fans would agree with you... that's why we're discontent and hoping that there will be change.
ironic, isn't it? i wouldn't use that same language, but aren't you, ours? why else would you post here.
brennan, fetch! brennan, bad poster, bad.
Keep the blind faith brutha...yo...*fist bump*
(rolling eyes)
Lloyd Carr was carried off the field in his last game as a beloved coach by his players beating Urban.
Urban was forced out in disgrace like every asshole Ohio State coach.
Who is the true bitch?
Your hero enabled drug abuse, campus violence, murder, domestic violence and is widely considered one of the scummiest characters to ever pass through college football (that takes some team effort).
He won a lot of football games though. Congrats, perfect representative of the farcical student athlete model at OSU.
All “great” OSU coaches resign or are fired in shame and controversy. Keep it up!
Harbaugh looked pretty awesome after walking into a totally dog shit Stanford. Being compared to OSU during the most successful period in their history is the problem.
Fair. How about bowl games? Wisconsin last year?
I'm far from a Harpologist. His bowl record is shit and he's never lost fewer than three times in a season at Michigan, so it's clearly not just an OSU problem.
He did well for a short period of time in a fairly weak Pac 10, has done much less well in a loaded B1G, and it's unclear (to me at least) if he can get the program out of the funk it's in. I seem to be one of very few people around here who think that a lot of coaches could manage to win 10 games somewhat regularly at Michigan, while losing three+ in generally embarrassing fashion.
I agree with you. I would rather see a coach with more energy (Fleck) as watching Harbaugh the past couple of seasons has been uninspiring. He comes off as odd in his interviews and the Amazon special didn't paint him in a good light. If there is a 2020 season, and Michigan loses 4 games, I hope they move on from Jim. If Michigan loses 3 games, with 2 of them being not competitive, I am ready to move on.
Salary aside, outside of beating lower tier teams, Harbaugh has done nothing to make year 6 feel like we are a surefire top 10 team that has a solid shot at winning every game.
I agree to the extent that I want Harbaugh to get his energy back on the sidelines. I hope you are only referencing Fleck for his energy. I will eat a lemon if he has true staying power as a coach.
Fleck dresses like a total asshole. For that reason alone I don't want him coaching here. People that wear a lime green sport jacket with pink pants are guaranteed to have some sort of personality disorder.
Why are there so many stipulations for Michigan's coach except winning?
"a lot of coaches could manage to win 10 games somewhat regularly at Michigan, while losing three+ in generally embarrassing fashion."
I agree with that which is why RR and Hoke had to go. With Michigan's talent, ability to attract talent, 8-9 wins is the absolute floor of what is o.k. Gary Moeller probably wouldn't have been let go after his incident had he not been losing (or tying) 3-4 games a year. Lloyd Carr was only a little better which was why a lot of people were for getting rid of him. I personally thought that Lloyd always had competitive teams and was always in a position to win. I think Harbaugh has us in the same place as Carr. We're in position to win. ...but people tired of Carr and Harbaugh needs to beat OSU. It sucks that OSU is at the pinnacle of college football right now (even though they under-perform against Clemson). Harbaugh needs to get some big recruits for 21 and get us to 0-1-2 loss seasons.
Alabama is the pinnacle of college football...their dynasty is something none of us have ever seen. Auburn still manages to beat them every once and a while.
But he had luck on his side there.
I was at Cal when Harbaugh was at Stanford. What he did there was amazing. I'm trying to think of a current B1G team that is as bad as Stanford was when Harbaugh got there and I'm struggling. They were worse than Mork's worst recent MSU team - just total total total shit. Hoke's worst Michigan team would have crushed them. Rutgers probably would have too.
Luck was amazing, but Harbaugh got Stanford to a point that Luck would come there over other places with much more success and he managed to improve Luck season over season.
You can't overstate the job he did at Stanford. Were Harbaugh even half as successful at Michigan he would have multiple NCs.
You can state that his Stanford years are 10 years ago now, he’s been late to the party in adjusting his offense and defense to the modern day college football.
Definitely, and I don't care two shit about what he did somewhere else a decade ago. After his second season at Michigan, he hasn't been super impressive.
How many years ago was that? I think we have to start asking... how many decades...
I think you’re glossing over the obvious question here...What if Harbaugh had three arms?
Well since we're speaking metaphorically... I'd say he's been castrated because he sure as hell ain't dick-swingin' anymore.
Do the other teams all get to have NFL caliber QBs too? Or just us?