What is the Possibility That Some Sports Simply End? Could There be a Permanent Covid Contraction?
Mates,
I came across this article about MLB and how the players and owners seem pretty far apart about starting a season. And even if they reach an agreement, what if there is even the slightest fly in the ointment re: C-19 issues re-emerging? I wonder also about the downstream effects of having cancelled a bunch of other spring sports and conceivably some or all of the fall sports for kids all the way up through college. What effect will having what amounts to a 'gap year' on sports have across the age groups?
Do you run the risk of all of the sports having a permanently, and possibly significant, reduced level of participation? So you cancel MLB or the NBA this year, does anyone even care about it next year? If kids don't get to play this summer, do you suddenly permanently lose maybe 50% of the young players? For instance, we have frequently talked about declining participation in football and does a cancelled season greatly accelerate the issue? Do you literally wipe out whole smaller school teams, grade schools right up through high schools?
Anyway, here is the article that talks about the MLB impasse: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29307988/mlb-players-reject-latest-offer-ask-league-set-2020-season-schedule
Tonight's question/issue: If there is a 'gap year' for sports, do you think we permanently end or reduce participation in those sports or, for instance, permanently choke out smaller schools at all age levels that were just barely fielding teams in the first place?
Hope you are all enjoying a fine Summer evening,
XM
That’s nonsense that everything returned to “normal” just like before, after those events
All those events, and many others, had impacts that fundamentally altered the way society functioned. Things did not just go back to the way they were beforehand, they just settled into a new normal where there were some new things gained, some old things lost and a lot of changes in between, because that’s the way things work.
When things get back to “normal” from this, whenever that may be, there’s going to be a hell of a lot that’s going to be different from the normal that existed before and it’s ignorant beyond belief to think otherwise.
Experts are already worried about what this pandemic means for our cities. Their cost of living was already out of control...but with covid we've all learned that many things can be done just as well via teleworking. Many companies are going to be more open to employees teleworking at least part of the week, and that means living further away from work (in the city) is more feasible if you don't have to sit in soul-crushing rush hour every damn day.
College sports are already being cut. East Carolina, where my son attends, cut their conference champion swim teams and their tennis teams permanently. Other schools are doing similar.
I hope not. That's a ridiculous idea to ruin this country over fear over the flu. This country is stupid.
i would agree re: not a good idea, but the reality of it is that, as the old saying goes, people will vote with their feet. so if parents don't let junior play football this year or if his league cancels and he pretty much loses any interest and starts playing video games, and if that same choice is made by X-thousands of parents across other sports, that'll be the vote. i know our kids are all champing at the bit to play their various sports, but we're just one family. check with 20-30 million other families with kids our age and we'll see what happens.
You’re right, this country is stupid.
Example #1: You
HEY special agent fucknut...you sure love to point the stupid finger...you realize when you point your finger, there are three more pointing at you...learned that from a third grader in your class.
Wow man, you really should see a shrink about the unhealthy anger you have towards me. Did I touch you inappropriately in another lifetime or something?
No you are just stupid..everything you say is unfounded nonsense..like saying the death rate from covid is 5.5% even though every study and every expert including the cdc and who has said it's way lower and there are way more people who have had it or are asymptomatic..but you are just a dick to be a dick..I'm sure you also will say the protests did not spread covid and the people who went to Lansing who protested whitmer spread it or the people who went to the beach are just the worst people ever..so tired of this narrative..the cant have it both ways crowd who cries over anything anyone says with reason and facts is just stupid assholes..shut up!!
No you are just stupid..everything you say is unfounded nonsense..like saying the death rate from covid is 5.5% even though every study and every expert including the cdc and who has said it's way lower and there are way more people who have had it or are asymptomatic..but you are just a dick to be a dick..I'm sure you also will say the protests did not spread covid and the people who went to Lansing who protested whitmer spread it or the people who went to the beach are just the worst people ever..so tired of this narrative..the cant have it both ways crowd who cries over anything anyone says with reason and facts is just stupid assholes..shut up!!
I've discovered other things, I'll leave it at that XM. If football doesn't happen this fall, and I don't miss tailgating, it could mean the end for me. I haven't fished much in the fall....looking to change that maybe. And hiking when the leaves change.....mmmm. I like those prospects.
bow hunting, too. talk about social distancing, can't get much better than that.
i really do think that if football is cancelled we will do a ton of hunting here. that would be the silver lining.
I love football but I can't get over how much everybody retreats inside once football comes on despite continued summer-like weather in September and then excellent fall weather in October. I would ususally go out for a long run/walk/bike ride, run errands or play golf and then come back and catch some or all of the Michigan game and then whatever else was on (I still don't really watch the entirety of most Michigan games if its nice out- I usually get back for the 2nd half). This advice goes great for Sundays as well. I stopped giving a shit about the NFL long ago and that makes Sundays so much better. I used to live in DC and I would play golf on Sundays when the Redskins were on; there was NOBODY out there. It was great.
With kids sports taking up most of my saturday, I have watched all of my Michigan football games on a time delay or taped. I can watch a 4 hour football game in 2 hours by fast forwarding through the commercials, and the dumb commentary at halftime. I also don't have to listen to a lot of the dumb comments form the commentators. I really struggle watching football games live now. I also love fall and all the stuff to do, so its much harder to give up 4 hours in the middle of the day.
I admit, I've discovered a ton of hobbies now that there's no live sports. Woodworking is a huge one. I'm catching up on my backlist of Steam games. Blah blah.. anyway, I do really miss college football. It's the one thing that I love that ESPN is playing old games of. However...
Baseball... yeah I was a big fan, but I surprisingly don't miss it at all. Hockey, NBA.. nope. Sports were sort of in trouble before all this, and this has suplexed the timeline on their right-sizing. There was bound to be a point in which fans say 'no mas' and salaries and ticket prices have to drop. Baseball, I dare you to not have a season.
I don’t think sports as whole will end because of the pandemic. The NBA is still finishing this current season, and things should get better as treatment improves. I hate baseball and I’m very unlucky, so you can count on the most asinine and boring sport to continue at least as long as I’m alive. This current season is probably fucked because millionaires and billionaires are fighting to get richer.
I spent 2 1/2 years in Mexico where there is no college sports on tv. Monday night football and futbal were all you could watch.
Saw a lot of bad stuff and realized when people have nothing they have nothing to lose.
I watch michigan sports but it doesn't affect me the way it did. I became a Michigan fan in 1969.
I wonder also about the downstream effects of having cancelled a bunch of other spring sports and conceivably some or all of the fall sports for kids all the way up through college. What effect will having what amounts to a 'gap year' on sports have across the age groups?
I've had the same thoughts and concerns. As the father of two elementary age children, this event has been frustrating from the perspective of my kids athletic development. Seeing whole seasons of soccer and basketball wiped out and their training and conditioning just stopped; I wonder how they'll respond and how much relearning will be required when normal life starts up again.
You're worried about the conditioning and training of your elementary age kids? WTF! Invest in a hoop in the driveway and let them play all day. That was what basketball training used to be, playing 1x1, 2x2, 3x3 etc... in the driveway for hours. Take them in the backyard and let them run around. Don't worry about this setting your elementary aged kids back.
Will there be a complete loss of a major sport? Doubtful if it’s only a year. Will sports lose some fans? Speaking from personal experience, I used to watch a ton of hockey. Then the cancelled season happened, and I realized I liked doing other things more. Hockey came back, but I’ve maybe watched 5 games (all Stanley cup finals) in 15 years. So yeah, I’d expect some or all sports to lose some of their fan base.
I love athletic competition-from my earliest childhood memories. I have studied, played, coached and officiated athletic competition through the college level. I am all over the board with my thoughts on this topic-in general. I should be pleased to see so many young people out there playing the games. But mostly I am deeply disappointed in the general lack of understanding of not only how the games are to be played but why they are played.
My assessment of the youth sports thing is that is more a void filler for these kids than anything else. (My specific thoughts here pertain to my last gig-college softball.) Scouting kids at big tournaments with a thousand girls playing-I have a difficult time identifying with what is taking place out there on the field . Many/most of the teams are coached by parents/people who clearly haven't played and have a most superficial understanding of the game...I see the game being played both poorly and joylessly. What the hell is the point here??? Most of these kids would be better off playing in a creek, climbing a mountain, weeding a garden, picking up trash, mowing a yard...
I wish a constriction of athletic competition would represent a loss. But here, I tend to believe that this might well be an "addition by subtraction" for most-including the parents who are so rabidly attempting to live vicariously through their children. This saddens me.
There's another element to consider: rivalry.
Part of the fun of sports is taking sides, us versus them. Our players, OUR coaches, OUR fans are obviously (to us) better people, more virtuous, do things the right way, etc. Even if we joke about the good guys versus the bad guys, taking sides can be satisfying.
But our tribal interest in sports might be losing fans to our other tribal interest, politics. Our highly partisan era takes some of that energy, and the same sense of satisfaction that sports provides.
Jane Coaston has been talking about how she could write an article about the parallels between college football and politics. I think there is something there, that politics have become more like sports rivalries. I'm doing some amateur punditry here, but I think that social media amplified the negative polarization, first in sports, then in politics.
It's somewhat ironic, since I think that sports can be one of the great unifying forces. You don't care about the politics of the person sitting next you at the ball game. If you do happen to start talking about politics with your tailgate buddies, at least you see them as human, worthy of human respect, not the faceless hatred that internet politics engenders. I disagree with the political views expressed by many of my favorite sportswriters, but I know that they're at least smart and systematic in their thinking, so I accept their views as reasonable. They haven't convinced me to agree with them on everything, but I internalize the other side to sharpen my own thoughts and arguments, and adjust as necessary. It's a net positive for debate, unlike the radicalizing echo chamber of only hearing your own side.
Saw another point recently (forget where) that basically says a lot of the US is addicted to outrage. The constant chirping on social media and talk shows for both politics and sports feeds into all of that and has given rise to people like Skip Bayless and Stephen A in sports, and Hannity, Tucker, et al in politics.
Sam, I've been trying to pitch the idea of the CLOSE similarity in emotional energy between politics and sports rivalries. I hope Jane Coaston (Vox?) does it well.
Notice, though, that your comparison of someone sitting next to you isn't a great fit. First, you're likely to be sitting next to someone who's rooting for the same team. Second, even if not, it's much harder to consider the other side the enemy if it's a person you're looking at and talking to.
From my college days in Ann Arbor, based on tOSU games, I assumed Ohio was ONLY jerks, but then my best friend in the Army and my best desk sergeant were both really nice guys from Ohio.
I think my point was unclear and thus you're taking it the wrong way. The person sitting next to you may be your enemy, politically, but sitting with them at a game allows you to see that you have more in common than different. You root for the same team, probably live in a similar area...and likely want many similar things, even if you disagree about how those are acccomplished.
Like you said, it's easy to think the other side is uniformly bad, until you actually spend time, person to person, with them.
I think you're being a little dramatic here. Sports aren't going to simply end, and even in the miraculous universe where they somehow did, something new will always arise to take their place. Whether its a new sport, or something brand new altogether. People aren't going to just sit around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for something to happen.
As a parent I am itching to get my kids back into sports. They are younger, but they enjoy playing soccer and hockey so far. I overall think sports are important. It can show how to work hard to get a goal. It can show how you can work hard and still get beat. Win big, win small, lose small and lose big. How to be a good winner and loser.
It also is great exercise hidden in fun. I stayed in good shape into my mid twenties by playing sports. I always wanted to do it.
In regards to sports watching, my life has gotten busy that I've had to drop down from watching all types of college and pro, to now just watching Michigan football and as much basketball as possible. I'm betting that people will care. People thought that baseball would end with the strike and it still is around. Although that came after a historic race between two roided giants for the homerun record.
do you think we permanently end or reduce participation in those sports or, for instance, permanently choke out smaller schools at all age levels that were just barely fielding teams in the first place?
What in the hell happened to the world I used to live in? It's like the Twilight Zone. I want my old world back. Is Covid really so dangerous that we can't realistically ever have sports again? Is this really the worst health crises that's happened in the last, what 100 plus years?
strength, if its any consolation, we'll be fully participating. i was more musing about baseball for pro sports being in a precarious position, and youth sports in schools where you have smaller enrollments to begin with and were barely fielding a team before the C-19 scare. and throw in the smaller private colleges that provide that athletic opportunity for many thousands but have taken a huge hit to their revenue and may not even stay viable as schools, much less offer athletics. i think we all want it back the way it used to be in that regard, but i also think many more people will be making decisions that might be at odds with that idea, and not unreasonably so.
Unfortunately for me, the majority of my personal interests and my job both lie in sports and exercise. I think I am struggling to accept the reality of the current state of affairs the loss of many of my personal interests and am struggling to find a consolation or replacement for the enjoyment they have provided me all these years. It's hard to accept a world where your personal interests have the potential to longer exist.
Exercise still exists.
It does. But, I'm happiest lifting weights in a large commercial gym. Covid is only thing that has kept me away for more than 2 weeks in the last 20 years.
No and No. My 82 year MIL has tested positive 2x for Covid 19 at the nursing home she's in. Never has had a symptom.
I mean - I get the fear because everything is so unusual and uncertain right now but I don't think this will be a problem. All of these sports came back after lockouts and there have been several Olympics that have been canceled or boycotted. Some of the big 4 sports got through WWII and even WWI.
People are always saying the Olympics and baseball are losing their appeal but they always seem to survive. And while the Big 4 sports have experienced downturns (pre-Magic/Bird/Jordan NBA was awful, 1994 baseball strike, the NFL didn't always have this much reach/power) they're all basically billion dollar industries now: I don't see them going away.
But you're right - on the college level a lot of sports on a smaller level could be casualties of this recession but people will always want to play and if they can, they will.
There are no school sponsored sports in many countries
June 15th and can't say I've missed the MLB one bit. More upset about my son losing his SR baseball season. Grew up on baseball in 1970's, Tigers and Reds were my favorite teams. Moved to Boston and became a Sox fan. They lost me years ago, just don't have the time or interest to watch, other than very occasionally. A Sox game is a night out for entertainment. Remember a couple years ago the reaction of my son's travel coach, was shocked that group of 15 yr old kids had no interest in watching baseball on TV. Last year some teams out of it were playing in near empty stadiums.
I also question the NBA and NHL at this point. Why not just start fresh at the regular time in the fall? At what point is too late?
What they should do is just get through the season with no fans. They'll earn enough in revenue for next year... and since we're all about racial equality, maybe even donate the money to education.
Otherwise, I doubt 1 season off will destroy the professional sports... many sports before they became hyper-popular suspended seasons during WWII.
Big difference between now and WW2, there weren't nearly the other options when the soldiers came back. Now there's other sports, other entertainments, and a much lower general attention span.
getting through the season with no fans will end some of the small market baseball teams. Will likely end some of the hockey teams. This idea lacks some perspective. There are teams losing money as is, you're suggesting they run at full cost, giving up a sizable percentage of revenue. Sorry, bad idea.
Fascinating