Varsity Women's Hockey at Michigan
This is from some months back, but I just stumbled across a Daily piece about Michigan's women's club hockey. I didn't realize that they have been around nearly 30 years. Because they are a club team they don't get their own locker room, transportation funding etc. Anyway, as someone who still plays (though the only similarity between my beer league team and UM's club team is that, in both cases, sticks, skates and pucks are involved) and has relatives who've played girls high school hockey, I would love to see Michigan have a women's varsity team. Money appears to be the obstacle but if Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio State and Penn State can make it work we should be able to. Here's the article:
https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/as-womens-hockey-grows-michigans-absence-is-glaring/
September 28th, 2022 at 12:37 PM ^
Money appears to be an issue at the University of Michigan for an athletic program?
No, it's not the issue.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:00 PM ^
No, it's not the issue.
It shouldn't be the issue, but I'm sure it is. There's no reason that we only have 29 varsity sports, when schools like OSU and MIT have 33, Stanford 36, Harvard 42, etc. We have the students, and we have the money. We just don't prioritize it...
September 28th, 2022 at 5:23 PM ^
I don't think that is how I would look at it as not every sport is created equal with some requiring more financial support than others. MIT is Division III, and the Ivy League schools spend nowhere near the money that Michigan and other Big Ten schools spend on athletics.
OSU has Women's Hockey. Michigan has Women's Water Polo. OSU does support fencing and Men's Volleyball, but it, like Michigan, is an outlier for the amount of sports they support. Look at the cuts that some of the Pac-12 schools made or considered in the last couple years. Stanford is one of the most successful athletic departments, and they were about to cut several sports before reversing course. Cal was about to cut Men's Baseball before donors (including Stanford) pitched in to save the program.
And eventually when revenue sports start paying their players, the squeeze on non-revenue sports will be greater and need to depend more on donors and university funding than before so I am not sure adding sports right now is the way to go. Women's Ice Hockey would probably need a donor to support to the program to go varsity similar to how Pegula did with Men's and Women's Hockey at PSU.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
If the B1G decided they wanted to it to be a conference sport, I think Michigan would add a team.
September 28th, 2022 at 5:42 PM ^
Chicken or the egg? Women's hockey would probably not be able to function as a Big Ten sport without at least 6 members. It's unlikely that a school without Men's Hockey would offer Women's Hockey which would leave Michigan and/or MSU as the only options. I don't think it could function as a Big Ten sport without Michigan adding a Women's Hockey program first.
September 28th, 2022 at 12:44 PM ^
Pretty sure there was a long thread about this less than a year ago. Will need a new facility built to make this happen. Light the Money Cannon...
September 28th, 2022 at 12:47 PM ^
Mel was an obstacle towards it. Not sure how Naurato feels. I'd love to add it and men's volleyball.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
Really? Never heard that. I wonder why? Did he think it would take resources away from the men's program? That's sad nonetheless...
September 28th, 2022 at 1:43 PM ^
Men's volleyball is behind the club rugby teams https://www.michiganunrivaled.com/
September 28th, 2022 at 1:18 PM ^
Going to reply to myself to say that this quickly becomes a Facilities conversation, and not a Women's Hockey conversation, because people fail to appreciate that Yost Ice Arena wasn't built to be an Ice Arena, and it was pressed into that service nearly 50 years ago. To solve the Women's Ice Hockey problem, you will need to solve the Yost Ice Arena problem. We will need a motivated donor with a vision to make this (Women's Hockey and a new Facility) happen.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
So what do we need, facilities wise, for women's team? Are we just talking about a locker room (as far as I'm concerned, visiting women's teams can just use the same visitor locker room as the visiting men, maybe with a little retrofitting)? Is ice time for practice an issue (i.e. need another rink?)? Relatedly, how does Crisler handle this for the men's and women's teams? Do they each have their own dedicated locker room, or do they share, for instance? And I guess, also, how does the club team do it now. Do they play at Yost, or elsewhere?
September 28th, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
We would need a new facility. The men (at least) would play there, perhaps the women too. Other sports may need to be included/planned for to justify the expense.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:50 PM ^
when i played, we had to walk up stairs to our dressing room - 2nd floor of yost. my understanding is that it's still that way. if that has been in place now for 40+ years or more, where are they even going to find a place to put the ladies?
new facility for somebody, and if so, where do they put it (and yes, payment would be an issue).
i should add that i think it would be cool to have women's varsity hockey. logistics would need to be handled.
September 29th, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
There are definitely financial and logistical aspects that would need to be addressed, but Michigan has the resources to make it happen if it is something they really want to do. Right now there is just not the will to make it happen. Could they split their ice time between the Cube and Yost? Probably, at least to start. I am pretty sure that the club team has to distribute their ice around multiple arenas currently, and do so on their own dime. Just getting the financing for the team would be a huge leap forward.
I have said before that I would love to see Kendall Coyne Schofield (Team USA) and her husband Eric Schofield (M Football) to use their combined connections to hockey and Michigan to drive some interest/financing for the program.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:43 PM ^
New facility wouldn’t be necessary, a relatively cheap option exists but it would take away some side revenue for the arena.
The mens locker room is up the stairs behind the home net. At the bottom of those stairs, there are four small dressing rooms. On their own they are far too small to comfortably hold an adult team and you’d struggle to fit most youth teams inside them as well. In their current use, referees get use of one room, a second room is for media interviews, and the third and fourth are used for the youth teams that sometimes play during intermission. Visiting college teams get dressed in a makeshift dressing room at the far end of the arena (may have been updated since I’ve been back there last)
Now, it is certainly feasible for them to knock a wall out between two of those dressing rooms and create a single large dressing room from that space for a Women’s Team locker room. The issue this leaves is only two remaining small dressing rooms for the arena.
This becomes an issue because Yost allows youth teams and local beer leagues to rent the ice for games. Only having two of those rooms creates a gap between possible usage of the ice (as two teams obviously can’t utilize the rooms at the same time) and effectively cutting that additional revenue in half. Granted, I have no idea how much additional revenue that brings in or if it matters. How big of an issue it is, I can’t say. But it is one of the drawbacks of this theoretical plan.
The biggest actual issue in my mind, is the ROI on a move like this. Women’s hockey would certainly be another program that doesn’t generate money for the athletic department. With the University already in compliance with Title IX requirements, there is likely little interest in adding a sport that doesn’t make money at this time, let alone two. As with most business ventures, there isn’t much of a rush to add areas that cost extra money.
Likely, it would require support from the men’s team (which reportedly didn’t exist under Red or Mel) and a donor willing to foot a portion of the bill for a few years. The University could afford it financially, but there needs to be some sort of return on that investment for them to really take that step.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:43 PM ^
Two hockey facilities would make it simpler for scheduling practice and games, but I don't think it is a non-starter. Numerous schools with both Men's and Women's ice hockey have one rink and manage well - though I'm sure coaches and athletic administrators put in extra hours working out practice schedules.
Many top hockey schools with both teams are smaller schools without the big TV revenue: Clarkson, Colgate, Union, Quinnipiac, Brown, etc... and they share the ice.
Perhaps we've reached a tipping point where there's enough girls playing high school hockey that women's hockey on the collegiate level can be considered a growth sport.
September 28th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
I'm also surprised they haven't been elevated to Varsity Club status (which helps with the funding shortfall) like lacrosse was prior to their D1 status.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
Sadly, the status no longer exists now that Recreational Sports isn't under Athletics
September 28th, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
I knew a few members of the team in the aughts. The perception was that the main barrier was Berenson...he didn't want to share facilities in any way. Assuming Mel was the same way
September 28th, 2022 at 1:18 PM ^
Well they've shared it with IM teams forever. Not sure why this would different.
September 28th, 2022 at 2:23 PM ^
My understanding, and this is now 15 years old so take it for what it's worth, but the difference is that the IM teams work around the hockey team, but that the hockey team has clear first come, first serve basis for the use of all of Yost's facilities. You could not have that preference anymore with a varsity women's team because of title ix. Even if you treated as 1a and 1b (which would be dubious, legally), the scheduling of women's games could potentially get in the way. Red, and presumably Mel, wanted complete control of the facilities and to not give up any logistical control of how it could be scheduled.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:19 PM ^
Thats kind of crazy. As a former player, there is only so much time you want to be on the ice before you start to burn out.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
I find myself fairly indifferent to the argument. On the one hand, from a basic math standpoint it's a very expensive sports per athlete or per fan that will really be engaged down the road. Fans aren't clamoring to watch women's hockey. It is what it is
On the other hand, it is a bit glaring that the state of Michigan has zero division 1 teams, and if anyone in Michigan is able to financially support a division 1 women's team and be the anchor program that maybe incentivizes others to start their own program, it is unquestionably Michigan. With an athletic department as rich as ours, you really can't say we cannot afford it - especially when you look at the some of the schools offering women's hockey.
Knowing that the AD is absolutely loaded with money and we spend it on all sorts of silly things, I have probably flipped my position and am now on the we should offer it side. Michigan athletics makes money hand over fist and I'd rather see it spent on a women's program than on whatever else the athletic department is spending their piles of money on. Michigan's AD was about $100MM on revenue in 2010 and is now projecting to cross the $200MM threshold in 2023. What are we doing with all of that revenue? We can afford a women's program
September 28th, 2022 at 1:37 PM ^
Michigan athletics makes money hand over fist and I'd rather see it spent on a women's program than on whatever else the athletic department is spending their piles of money on.
Slightly off topic, but I'd rather that money be funneled into non-revenue sports than into revenue sharing with football and basketball players, as has been suggested recently (including by Harbaugh). NIL is fine I guess (although it's being abused just as much as the old system was), but I've never been a fan of the concept of turning what were supposed to be student athletes into professionals with massive salaries...
September 28th, 2022 at 3:11 PM ^
Just because the money is being spent on many silly things, doesn't mean it's easy to stop spending it on those silly things. Certain people or groups have or had the political power within the AD to get their cut of the total revenue pie, and won't give it up easily. When it comes down to it, it's easy to spend other people's money but very difficult to give up your own.
Sure, Harbaugh and Howard could give up their last "assistant to the video coordinator" position and re-allocate that money toward a women's hockey program, but they're not going to do it easily. Their argument is and will always be - OSU and MSU are spending all this $$$ on their staff, so we have to spend more. And for better or worse, that argument will win the day on pretty much anything short of a Title IX lawsuit.
September 28th, 2022 at 1:27 PM ^
*Edit: Just realized the previous post was (correctly) taken down, so no I no longer have context.
But eff yeah let's get it done!
September 28th, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
FYI, the miSHEgan podcast had an interesting discussion with the women's coach, jenna trubiano, a few weeks back...
https://overcast.fm/+1Yla1_AaA
she does talk about what they're up against to get to varsity status.
September 29th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
It’s good that Coach Trubiano is getting visibility on the issue. See also: https://gulogulohockey.substack.com/p/jenna-trubiano-interview-pt-1
September 28th, 2022 at 2:01 PM ^
Ice time is the issue, not money
September 28th, 2022 at 3:39 PM ^
Varsity Womens Hockey at Michigan=Replacement of Yost Ice Arena. They’ve gone just about as far as they can with the venerable old barn.
That’s the crux of it. The bidding probably starts at ~$150 million between the arena and the start-up costs. At this point, this is probably the sticking point.
September 28th, 2022 at 4:56 PM ^
While we are at it how about Men’s Rowing, Men’s Volleyball, Men’s Waterpolo, and Men and Women’s Rugby.
September 28th, 2022 at 6:33 PM ^
where/when would they play? A non-start unless Michigan decided to sink $150 million or so into a new hockey facility on the outskirts of town.
September 28th, 2022 at 7:14 PM ^
As I understand it the real problem is twofold:
- Hockey and MBB and WBB don't want to compete with another winter sport.
- How we do the books for Title IX
For #1 as far as I'm concerned they can deal, but hockey would have to share facilities, and I guess IM Broomball might have to move to the Icebox, and WBB is probably the most hurt just as they're becoming a true top-16 program.
For #2 that will take some finagling. You would think it would be easier to add a women's sport to offset football scholarships but Michigan is already close to sponsoring all the sports and WHockey gets 18 scholarships, which is not enough to field a full team but actually a lot for a varsity sport (because most schools that have it use it to offset their men's hockey programs). Because scholarship limits are so low for men's sports (other than football) that means adding lots of sports to get to 18 (they wouldn't not use their full allotment). Options that they don't sponsor already:
- Skiing (6.3 scholarships)
- Water Polo (4.5)
- Volleyball (4.5)
- Fencing (4.5)
- Rifle (3.5)
If you add Skiing, Water Polo, Volleyball, and Fencing that gets you to 20.8 scholarships, which you can get down to 18 by only partially sponsoring Skiing (since skiiers are the most likely not to need it anyways).
September 28th, 2022 at 7:18 PM ^
I guess, but that would be true at Wisconsin, Minnesota etc.