TomVH article on Alabama and ND - implications for Michigan
Thought this was a good read - it's about how Alabama and ND have taken very different recruiting paths to their playoff game. The long and short of it is: Alabama does it with overwhelming raw talent, most of whom leave early; ND does it by good talent that they then develop into a roster stacked with veteran players.
I've been thinking for ages that Michigan's path to sustained success would be as "Wisconsin with some extra 4/5 stars." And that's pretty much what TomVH says ND has become. Obviously took them some time, and growing pains, to get there. But given that ND and Michigan share similar academic restrictions (that the Alabamas and OSUs of the world do not), as well as a seeming unwillingness to pay players, is this our most realistic path to sustained success? How exactly do we go about getting there?
(TBH I'm not sure it's plausible with our current staff, given JH's tendency to burn redshirts, forget to recruit key positions in any given year and seeming inability to keep a staff together.)
December 29th, 2020 at 1:31 PM ^
(TBH I'm not sure it's plausible with our current staff, given JH's tendency to burn redshirts, forget to recruit key positions in any given year and seeming inability to keep a staff together.)
DING DING DING!
December 29th, 2020 at 1:56 PM ^
We have a winner!!!!
Harbaugh's biggest problem is a constant shifting of emphasis. Manball v Speed in Space. Light v. heavy on the defensive line. Also, Harbaugh changes things impulsively. The Gattis hire was a sea change in offensive philosophy and Harbaugh knew Gattis for all of 24 hours before hiring him. And Harbaugh then never fully committed. So various parts of the program march in different directions. This NEVER happens with Saban. Assistants come and go at a frenetic pace but Saban's standards are immovable. Belief in a philosophy, adherence to its requirements, recruiting and coaching to the philosophy are prerequisites to success at any level of football.
December 29th, 2020 at 2:00 PM ^
One thing TomVH and you guys now are missing, Alabama will win by 35. Even if ND has 45 seniors on the roster
December 29th, 2020 at 2:08 PM ^
Oh, and ND doesn't play OSU, Wisconsin, Penn St, and whatever uprising team in the B1G that particular year. ND has been very fortunate in its playoff years. USC has sucked. When they played FSU or Miami, they sucked, and they happen to catch Stanford on a downturn. We never seem to get that lucky, and let's face it, when you play a competent non conference opponent each year, and the rugged east, and the best team in the west, you need some luck.
December 29th, 2020 at 5:05 PM ^
You're missing the fact that except this year the other two times this decade ND has gone to the NC and playoff they played us and beat us. So you're basically insulting Michigan while saying they don't play anybody.
December 29th, 2020 at 3:46 PM ^
Alabama *should* win by 35, but they play the game for a reason. Ohio State should have beaten Clemson last year, but they kicked field goals instead of scoring touchdowns after three long drives in the first half, they had a close call go against them on the fumble and Fields threw two interceptions against zero turnovers from Clemson. If Notre Dame gets a few breaks this could be an entertaining game.
Having said that, Alabama could play a shitty game and still win by two touchdowns.
December 29th, 2020 at 3:59 PM ^
I was checking for a similar to reply but this is what I was going to reply with. Michigan plays in the B1G East. That means that every year you have a huge game against Ohio State plus a touch match against Penn State (usually when we play in Happy Valley, not so much in Ann Arbor) plus a cross over game against either either Wisconsin or Iowa. Now add in one tough out of conference game.
For all of the crying from Dabo this season about the number of games that Ohio State played, he seems to forget that Clemson always has an eye test ranking because they play almost no ranked team on their schedule. The ACC is weak minus Clemson. Alabama plays only 8 conference games with two bye weeks. They then schedule 4 out of conference cup cakes and the committee let's them in on the eye test as well.
Michigan is a name institution but if you are that 5* all world kid, do you think you have a better chance at a national championship at Alabama or Michigan? At Notre Dame, you will play a junk ACC portion of your schedule except for those few occasions you have Clemson on the schedule and the rest of the time you pick who you want to play.
Michigan could fix their record really quick if we went back to the Leaders & Legends Divisions. Playing in the B1G East is going to always give Michigan a difficult path to a 1 or 2 loss season.
December 29th, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
division has no baring on our outcomes, and alabama could play non top in any conference and mop them teams up, it comes down to getting high ranking talent and that part we not getting, ND has figured a way to pay for talent, and will make exceptions for admissions, the powers to be at michigan have to decide are we an academic institution or a factory
December 29th, 2020 at 5:00 PM ^
Alabama actually play a tough non conference game every year.
December 29th, 2020 at 6:30 PM ^
Alabama's out of conference schedule. Power 5 school's record listed for the season.
2015
Wisconsin (10-3)
Middle Tennessee
Louisiana-Monroe
Charleston Southern
Michigan
Utah (10-3)
Oregon State (2-10)
UNLV
BYU
2016
USC (10-3)
Western Kentucky
Kent State
Chattanooga
Michigan
Hawaii
UCF
Colorado (10-4)
2017
Florida State (7-6)
Fresno State
Colorado State
Mercer
Michigan
Florida (4-7)
Cincinnati
Air Force
2018
Louisville (2-10)
Arkansas State
Louisiana
The Citadel
Michigan
Notre Dame (12-1)
Western Michigan
SMU
2019
Duke (5-7)
New Mexico State
Southern Miss
Western Carolina
Michigan
Middle Tennessee
Army
Notre Dame (11-2)
December 30th, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
How many true road games by Alabama? How many times do they leave the SEC footprint? Even their fans are complaining about their weak scheduling. Also taking a bye before the LSU game every year? FCS game in November?
December 29th, 2020 at 4:23 PM ^
Notre Dame has stopped the run all year minus their last game against Clemson. If they can continue to do that and put some pressure on the QB they would have a shot. They should get their points against that defense.
December 29th, 2020 at 6:44 PM ^
They also haven't faced a back in the caliber of Najee Harris either. Maybe Travis Etienne but that didn't really work out that well last time either.
December 29th, 2020 at 3:37 PM ^
Harbaugh thinks you can fix a team in a off-season like you can in the nfl, and you can't do that in college.
December 29th, 2020 at 3:59 PM ^
This always blows me away when I hear people complaining that Harbaugh is 'Stubborn'. He's made a ton of changes, including taking himself out of the coaching end almost completely and acting as a CEO.
" And Harbaugh then never fully committed." How so? We have Isaiah Hole and others saying this is Gattis' deal, and Harbaugh is hands off. Gattis does the planning and playcalling.
The fact of the matter is we had a pretty good offense and defense in '15/16. Fisch and Durkin left so he used Pep and got Brown. O took one step back and D took off. O line started to suffer so he changed one year with the co O line coaches, and that didn't work so he ditched them both and got Warinner. Then people ENDLESSLY complained about Pep and we had the year of bad quarterbacks (Speight never really coming back from previous year injury, then hurting his back. O'Korn trying hard but not getting it done, then going to Peters) so we bring in a new QB (not a bad idea at the time) and it still isn't where he wants it so he tries a new OC...
The fact of the matter is the complaints don't make sense.
People can't say he changes too much and that he's too stubborn and doesn't change enough in the same breath.
Consistency has been a huge issue but this isn't Harbaugh just throwing things at the wall. Some changes forced his hand (Fisch and Durkin) and some were wise to make. I think Brian and others would have swallowed their tongues had he kept Pep (queue whining about modern offenses). Not getting Warinner would have been a huge mistake. Brown was great but seems to have been figured out so do we keep him for consistency sake?
Going forward, lets get the best DC we can and keep Gattis. I don't like his offense but keeping guys in the same system has it's own multiplier effect. And it has the possible benefit of giving us an identity. Crap, if anything I would appreciate it if Harbaugh had *MORE* of an impact on the offense like he did earlier; where we were harder to predict and where we saw Speight and Rudock improve in consistency.
December 29th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
The lack of emphasis on scoring points has been the same all six years. The particular plays don't matter when you're trying to run as few plays as possible and score in the 20s.
December 29th, 2020 at 4:42 PM ^
Do you honestly think Harbaugh doesn't want the team to score as many points as possible?
What a stupid take.
December 29th, 2020 at 4:59 PM ^
I agree it seems crazy. How else do you explain constantly pre-settling for FGs at the end of half, constantly playing at a snails pace, always taking 4 minutes to run a two minute drill, never running tempo even down multiple scores, almost never going pass first, the second half of the Army game, etc. etc. How do you explain all that if his first priority is scoring?
Edit to add: You think it's just a wild coincidence his record is 0-11 in regulation games where the opponent scores 30?
December 29th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
You're being awfully generous to call 2016 a very good offense. It was average/mediocre. A truly very good or great offense probably wins a NC with that defense.
December 29th, 2020 at 9:02 PM ^
UM's 2016 offense finished 22nd in the FEI rankings.
December 29th, 2020 at 5:15 PM ^
this all of this
December 29th, 2020 at 6:51 PM ^
One of the problems this season was lack of Spring and reduced Fall Training Camp with social distancing. We just sent 4 linemen to the NFL with a brand new starting QB and the best WR opting out. Under normal circumstances that would be a lot to over come. With the limitations for the 2020 season it was devastating to Michigan. Had Michigan had last season's O-Line back, this season would not have been the dumpster fire it was. Toss in Shae Patterson and the Michigan offense is night and day better. The defense was still a mess.
With some what experience this year plus an off-season of nutrition and working out and Michigan should be greatly improved next season.
December 29th, 2020 at 9:16 PM ^
I don't understand why Harbaugh couldn't keep the motions and shifts in the offense and just opened the offense up some more.
December 30th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^
Swapping out an assistant coach is a change, but just because he did that does it mean it was the change that's needed?
Durkin's D got blasted by OSU, so Harbaugh hired another DC that... got blasted by OSU. If you hire coaches that don't recruit well, how much better off are you? If you hire an OC that was never an OC before and you barely knew him at hire, have you made a positive change, especially if you're too *stubborn* to completely relinquish your offensive philosophy?
Harbaugh has done plenty of NFL-style coach swapping for sure, but his stubbornness comes into play in aspects that matter in the college game.
December 29th, 2020 at 5:36 PM ^
It did take Saban a few college stops to figure out his formula, it was not as automatic as people think for his entire career. Harbaugh has had only one stint in P5 at Stanford, where he did catch lightening in a bottle with Andrew Luck but everyone else was more the want-to-be low 4-star great student athlete like at ND.
Sounds like we are giving Jim another few years to deliver a winner. The 2021 class is a solid foundation for the future, but we need to hit the transfer portal for needed key positions for next season to have a chance of improvement.
December 29th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^
Just checking. Is this the same ND team we beat 45 - 14 last year?
December 29th, 2020 at 3:29 PM ^
No, it the ND team from the season after we beat them 45-14. Not the same team.
December 29th, 2020 at 1:34 PM ^
To Hell with Notre Dame.
December 29th, 2020 at 2:34 PM ^
Also, Notre Dame just isn’t that great. Obviously they are better than us this year but the only reasons they are in the playoff is their golden helmets and Covid
December 29th, 2020 at 7:51 PM ^
Don't start slinging mud about getting to better bowls based on helmets, because you'll definitely end up eating your words.
December 29th, 2020 at 1:35 PM ^
Countdown to someone coming on the board and (wrongly) insisting Michigan has the same academic standards as Bama and OSU, using the simplistic (and inaccurate) "all require only the NCAA minimums" argument...
December 29th, 2020 at 1:37 PM ^
How many Bama or OSU players couldn't have played for us?
December 29th, 2020 at 1:44 PM ^
It's not that we don't want them, it's more that they don't want us.
Because we do make them take classes (although we make it as easy as possible, they are certainly not just "regular" students).
But Ohio State and Alabama make it clear in word and deed at recruiting time that the academic part will be "taken care of". You can come and hang out for three years on your way to the NFL without academics getting in the way.
December 29th, 2020 at 2:27 PM ^
Any actual examples of this you can point to? I think this is total nonsense and the only recruit I can recall not being admitted was Demar Dorsey but I would love to be shown otherwise.
December 29th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^
It’s not a question of if they are admitted or not. It’s what they are required to do once they are on campus. UM requires students to go to class and do school work. The Alabama’s and OSU’s of the world basically let the kids be on campus to play football and maybe take some bs class on line
December 29th, 2020 at 4:49 PM ^
This is hogwash. Michigan has online courses. Michigan has easy majors (plenty of them). The "Michigan academics" narrative gets a lot of mileage on this blog but it is fundamentally untrue. Most, if not all, of the Top 20 Rivals recruits have Michigan offers. I have yet to see one of them choose another school and say that they chose the other school over Michigan because Michigan was too hard. It's a fallacy that makes us feel better even though it isn't true. I say that as a proud Michigan alum.
December 29th, 2020 at 5:00 PM ^
It's not hogwash. Michigan student athletes are made to actually go to classes and pre-covid, there were few to no online classes because Michigan administration is historically against them. Compare that to OSU, where Justin Fields literally said he stepped foot on OSU campus once...
December 29th, 2020 at 5:23 PM ^
This whole line of thinking is stupid. There is literally no difference between the players we recruit and those OSU recruit from an academic perspective.
Because of their success they no longer have to take academic risks. They are basically picking from the top tier of student athletes.
BTW, Justin Fields had a 3.9 GPA with a 29 ACT in high school.
Yeah, but keep up the fairytale that we only struggle to win because such high academic standards while Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame somehow seem to figure it out.
December 29th, 2020 at 9:32 PM ^
Your fundamental lack of reading comprehension skills is frustrating. No one is saying we have higher academic standards. People are saying that Michigan actually making kids go to class and do coursework puts us at a disadvantage against schools where athletes just do online BS classes and never step foot on campus, which is different from admissions standards
December 29th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
If you think U of M wouldn't have found a way to accommodate Justin Fields, you are gravely mistaken. One can get through UMich taking Ojibwa and Comp Lit and do just fine.
December 29th, 2020 at 9:35 PM ^
Among other things, Fields chose to go to the school where he only had to do online classes and didn't have to step foot on campus. You literally couldn't take Michigan online classes as a full time student pre-covid, so no, there was not a way to "accommodate" him
December 29th, 2020 at 4:57 PM ^
Justin Fields said last year he set foot on OSU campus once
December 29th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
Throw in Clemson too. Trevor Lawrence just graduated in 2.5 years with a marketing degree as a football player, which even for a normal student is really hard. Me thinks that Clemson really wanted to be able to call him a Clemson grad...
December 29th, 2020 at 1:46 PM ^
Cardale Jones
December 29th, 2020 at 1:49 PM ^
didn't go there to play school.
December 29th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
Despite his quote, he did get a degree.
December 29th, 2020 at 2:08 PM ^
Doesn't that really prove the point, though? Didn't want to play school but was still able to get the degree given lax standards?
December 29th, 2020 at 2:13 PM ^
Not to mention, he didn't it get until 3 years after he left campus.
December 29th, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^
no actually his tweet was about him being pissed off osu was making him go to class. when he thought he was going there to just play football. if anything, it undermines the point about osu not caring if its players go to class.
December 30th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
so. cardale jones, surprised and angry that he's being asked to go to class is...a good thing? honestly.