Tom Lemming on DPJ and Oliver Martin

Submitted by Blue in Paradise on
Tom Lemming told The Wolverine that he thought DPJ could be the next great Michigan 2 way player as he thinks he could be a great cornerback in addition to WR. I thought that was interesting as it is the first time I have heard someone mention DPJ as a 2 way guy. If nothing else, could be good insurance if injuries strike our secondary. He also stated that Oliver Martin could end up as the top WR in the 2017 class nationally. Yes, please... He also discussed a few more of our commits. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-wolverine-podcast/id799645891?m… Interesting that this guy made college football recruiting a Thing but you don't actually here his name mentioned that much anymore.
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JuIian

February 11th, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^

I'm not so sure about that. After Martin committed and we evaluated him as a receiver, here are a few comparisons that were made: Wes Welker Julian Edelman Danny Amendola Eric Decker Cole Beasley Jordy Nelson Dikembe Mutombo Regardless, it's clear that Martin is a gym rat, blue collar kind of guy. Cash me ousside

Joined: 12/31/2015

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raleighwood

February 11th, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^

You just named a bunch of guys who don't necessarily have a lot in common other than, you know, being white. Cole Beasley (5' 8") and Eric Decker (6' 3") are not the same kind of receiver. The same goes for Welker and Nelson. In my mind, Oliver reminds me of someone like Jason Avant. Precise routes, decent speed, good hands....a good possession receiver with some ability to stretch the field.

Joined: 11/26/2008

MGoPoints: 4710

snarling wolverine

February 11th, 2017 at 1:52 PM ^

Hey, I never noticed the guys on that list are white.   I don't look at skin color.  I just see their game.

On another note, I was just watching the Brooklyn Nets play.  Did anyone else ever think that Jeremy Lin's got some Yao Ming in his game?  It just hit me all of a sudden.  Not sure why.

 

 

Joined: 12/14/2011

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BroadneckBlue21

February 11th, 2017 at 10:14 AM ^

If either...is to be (not are)...will be? I wouldn't make a hypothetical that essentially ignores the possibility of any highly-ranked WR becoming the best. Natural talent alone doesn't mean a thing, and you'd think that'd be obvious by now after Hoke and RichRod.  

Hell, I learned that lesson when Mike Hart somehow became the all-time rushing leader despite being a lowly 3-star recruit that was in the same class as a blue-chip recruit named Max Martin who just happened to flame out with his talent. One cannot account for the love of the game, or growth potential, as well as the ability as a 17-22 year old trying to balance college academics, fun, and athletics. 

If a kid commits to JH or Urban or Saban, especially, I wouldn't rule out that kid's ability to become the best--because those kids have sought out coaches who demand their players try to be the best. 

Joined: 01/12/2015

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Steeveebr

February 11th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^

That's true, but those coaches also have a number of commits who never become the best or even reach the field at all.  It's a reasonable expectation to believe certains kids will rise and certain kids won't. 

I'm not stating an opinion on Martin.  I'm just pointing out that citing an individual success as a reason to not doubt ignores the 500 other exampls where doubt would have been the correct approach.

Joined: 10/05/2010

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Mr. Yost

February 11th, 2017 at 10:15 AM ^

...in your opinion.

Just like that comment was HIS opinion.

Unless you can see the future, you have no idea if this is true. Martin certainly has the tools to be a top WR, they're both extremely talented. I would agree with your opinion that DPJ is more talented and more likely - but it's not close to a certainty.

What if Martin becomes the Wes Welker security blanket for the QB and racks up the catches, yards, TDs to go with it? DPJ still may be the better talent and NFL prospect - but in a lot of people's opinions Martin could be the best WR in the country. Just like there was a time people thought Welker was the best or one of the 2-3 best WRs in the league with Megatron.

The point is, none of us know because we don't know the QB, the offense, etc. - those things all help make "the best." If we do go more spread and Martin gets Slot and TE catches and yards - that would be a pretty damn good stat line.

And all of this talk between these too, Tarik Black could easily be the best of the bunch when it's all said and done. He outperformed both at the AA bowl - so clearly he's talented as well.

Or we can just go off of stars and HS accomplishments and live in a world where Kevin Grady, Max Martin, Jerome Jackson are all better than Mike Hart just because the stars say so. Because I guarantee there were people saying the exact same thing about Hart.

In MY opinion, they're going to be the best WR class in school history and have 3-4 NFL players in the group like Clemson had awhile back. But that's just my opinion.

Joined: 07/25/2011

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alum96

February 11th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^

I agree with your post in general - but this is the silly season as starz means everything and no one is going to be a bust, transfer, injury, get processed, or not get a 5th year.  For now... we won all the recruitz!

Speaking of Clemson here is where their top guys were ranked:

  • Mike Williams 98 catches, 1361 yards, 11 TDs (Class of 2013 - 238th overall, 35th WR)
  • Artavis Scott (a guy UM was after big time) 76 catches, 614 yards, 5 TDs (Class of 2014 - 68th overall, 8th WR)
  • Jordan Leggett 46 catches 736 yards, 7 TDs (Class of 2013 - 466th overall, 17th TE)
  • Hunter Renfrow (high IQ, a gym rat, sneaky athletic) 44 catches, 495 yards, 6 TDs (Class of 2014...unranked dual threat QB, whose best offers were App State, Wofford, & Gardner-Webb)

 

FWIW top 5 WR recruits in 2013: Treadwell, Robert Foster (Bama), Robbie Rhodes (Baylor), Jalin Marshall, Derrick Griffn (Miami)

Top 5 WR recruits in 2014:  Speedy Noil, Malachi Dupre (LSU), Ermon Lane (FSU), KD Cannon (Baylor), Josh Malone (Tenn).

Mike Williams had as many catches last year as Malachi Dupre in his 3 year career, Ermon Lane fizzled out with 19 career catches as a WR and switched to defense last year, Josh Malone had 2 decent years of 20 and 30 catches before rising to 50 last year.  Again about the same as Mike Williams in a 3 year career. 

After a great freshman season of 46 catches, Speedy Noil has toiled in the mediocre weeds with 21 catches a year in 2015 and 2016; in between multiple suspensions.  Robert Foster has 21 catches in his 3 year career.  Only played in 2 games last year for Bama.  Robbie Rhodes left Baylor to go to Bowling Green.  Where he was dismissed from the football team.   Derrick Griffin left Miami to go to Southern Texas; where he was dismissed from the football team.

So KD Cannon and Treadwell were 2 of the top 10 WRs in those classes that truly flourished.  Jalin Marshall split town too early but was solid if not spectacular. Josh Malone is solid.  Dupre is ok; bad offensive system at LSU and QB hurt.  And 5 guys who were mostly busts at WR.  So 1 out of 2 guys "hit" even at the top of the WR classes...

STARZ!

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Mr. Yost

February 11th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^

I was talking about the years Clemson had Bryant, Hopkins, etc.

My point wasn't about starz...I know that's your baby, my point was you can't say definitively that DPJ will be better than Martin just like you couldn't say definitively that those other RBs would be better than Hart.

Starz are a great predictor - no doubting that. But let's see what the offense looks like and it's completely sujective anyway. Some will lean more on stats, others will lean on natural ability and draft status. 

I just felt like he was completely dismissing Martin as if he we some white walk-on kid who was going to be "gritty" and the Aaron Craft/Spike Albrecht of slot WRs. Even a Jordan Kovacs to DPJ's Jabrill Peppers. Martin can BALL.

It would be no surprise at all to me if Martin ended up being the best of the bunch. In fact, only Hawkins...MAYBE would be a surprise - but I happen to think even he can play since he's a year older, the coaches STILL went after him when they didn't have to, etc. 

Joined: 07/25/2011

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Steeveebr

February 11th, 2017 at 1:11 PM ^

I understand some of this has to do with the way he said it, but I don't think him stating his opinion means he doesn't recognize the possibility he could be wrong.  For instance Lemming stated his opinion about Martin but you wouldn't make the same comment after that...

I think it helps to recognize that everything said on the board is always opinion and not definitive and that the people saying it mean it that way as well.  Otherwise we have to start everthing with IMO.

Joined: 10/05/2010

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Maynard

February 11th, 2017 at 5:34 PM ^

No shit Yost. Of course it's an opinion. This whole board is filled with opinions. I shouldn't have to say "in my opinion" every time something is typed on here. What I should have said I guess is having seen both of them play in person, I am convinced that Peoples-Jones will be the best WR nationally soon and an NFL first round pick. I am not the only one who thinks this. Martin is good, but I don't think he will be on that level. IN MY OPINION. As well as others. Happy now?

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